The Commute Of NYC FF's And Cops

[x635 4,066]

It's my understanding that it is required that NYC firefighters (and PD Officers) can only live in NYC, Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Rockland, Putnam and Orange Counties, NY.

Now, many NYC FF's and Pollice officers live way up the line to where they can afford to purchase a home. This results in a very long commute, which, in turn, lowers their salary since I don't think anyone figured gas prices would go that high.

Shoud NYC let their firefighters live in bordering CT and NJ? That would give a lot more housing options, with a shorter commute?

Also, are any firefighters or cops able to take advantage of mass transit, such as Metro North and the Subways to get to work, or are you supposed to have a car with you?

[PVFD233 68]

It's my understanding that is is required that NYC firefighters (and PD Officers) can only live in NYC, Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Rockland, Putnam and Orange Counties, NY......

Not Dutchess?

[ny10570 745]

The issue of being allowed to live in Jersey or in farther flung counties has been ongoing but I haven't heard of anything that could be considered progress.

They're allowed to take mass transit, but unless you work in Manhattan or along the train line its usually much faster to drive. Also, depending on when you get off there may not be a train going north for several hours. They really make it hard to commute with mass transit unless you work 9 to 5.

[x635 4,066]

Not Dutchess?

My bad, the list above is incorrect according to the info below.

Here's the official list from FDNY's site:

(Must) Be a resident of one of the five boroughs of New York City, or live in Nassau, Orange, Putnam, Rockland, Suffolk or Westchester County;

Also,

FDNY Dispatchers have it worse. I believe they are limited to living WITHIN the 5 boros.

FDNY*EMS does not have any residency requirment that I know of.

[helicopper 1,050]

It's my understanding that is is required that NYC firefighters (and PD Officers) can only live in NYC, Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Rockland, Putnam and Orange Counties, NY.

Now, many NYC FF's and Pollice officers live way up the line to where they can afford to purchase a home. This results in a very long commute, which, in turn, lowers their salary since I don't think anyone figured gas prices would go that high.

Shoud NYC let their firefighters live in bordering CT and NJ? That would give a lot more housing options, with a shorter commute?

Also, are any firefighters or cops able to take advantage of mass transit, such as Metro North and the Subways to get to work, or are you supposed to have a car with you?

I believe that there is a law that requires police officers to reside within the State of New York. Until recently, it would have been an issue for police officers to carry a firearm in another state and I know that New Jersey still has restrictions about ammunition that can be carried.

I'll try to find the legislation for citation...

[pjreilly 6]

Being a rookie fire fighter with a wife and 2 kids, you would qualify for food stamps. I can't see Fairfield County Connecticut as an option as it is grossly overpriced. Even areas of Westchester I am sure are overpriced for a fire fighters salary. It is unfortunate that a person who risks his or her life for a city, can't afford to live in the communitiees they serve.

[Guest]

We are not allowed to live outside of those County's. It was a law passed way back before the advent of real highways and was only enforced in the early 80's. The price of gas would have minimal impact on your expenses compared to the taxes you pay living in any of the County's outside of NYC. I could live in Jersey and get to work in 10 minutes on a bike, even walking. Now I am 46 miles and 50 minutes away. Its all politics. There is not enough demand to change these rules in our contract. No one can afford to live here, I have no clue how people do it now! You need to either save no money in def comp or live in a tiny house to survive. If I could move to Ct I would in a second! Anyplace you can get Class 3 weapons is the place for me! And FD and EMS are not allowed to ride the train, only PD. And EMS must live in the same area if you have civil service status.

[TRUCK6018 50]

I could be wrong, but, didn't at one time it state that FDNY firefighters couldn't live more than two counties away from NYC? Ultimately that would be the stated restriction of Westchester, Putnam, Rockland, Orange, Nassau and Suffolk

[Guest]

It does state that any Uniformed member of the City of New York is not allowed to live more than one County away from an adjacent county. I think Bergen is adjacent as well as Fairfield :-)

[JBE 328]

The residency requirement for dispatchers pretty much got dropped a few years ago. I don't remember the particulars as to why. I've lived in the city the entire time I've been on the job. From the Bronx, to Queens, and now back to the Bronx. I honestly find it more convenient for me. We have guys coming in from the Island, Upstate, PA, Jersey. Unfortunately, I can't really take mass transit because it's not as convenient as driving. But, I can't complain, 15 minutes door to door. Saving on gas and tolls. Not sure if I really want to head back upstate or out to the Island.

PS, there are ways around the residency requirement, as everyone knows. If I had done that in 1997 instead of moving in, I'd probably own a home right now.

[Guest]

If you get caught you get fired. Its not worth the risk.

[JBE 328]

Tell me about it. I got my stones broken for about a month after I got on. I had already done all my change of address paperwork, and they still gave me a hard time. So much so, I had to go down to Livingston Street to drop off more paperwork.

[lad12derff 283]

I want to know what other jobs in Westchester require. In New Rochelle we can only live in Westchester or Putnam. We can not live in any of the 5 Boros, over a bridge or out of state.

[x129K 1,393]

I want to know what other jobs in Westchester require. In New Rochelle we can only live in Westchester or Putnam. We can not live in any of the 5 Boros, over a bridge or out of state.

Even though the Bronx is SO close huh? Wierd....

It's not the same as FDNY or NRFD, but we at Poughkeepsie City 911 have to live in a 25 mile radius, as the crow flies...

[Guest]

Why would you want to live in the 5 boros?

[abaduck 123]

Shoud NYC let their firefighters live in bordering CT and NJ? That would give a lot more housing options, with a shorter commute?

What?! 'let'??? Who the hell do they think they are?! It's none of their damn business where their workers live so long as they turn up to work on time and in good shape. I sincerely hope & expect a court would tie a can to that if they ever tried to enforce it!

Mike

[20y2 43]

Why would you want to live in the 5 boros?

Real estate taxes are 1/2 Westchester's taxes.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I want to know what other jobs in Westchester require. In New Rochelle we can only live in Westchester or Putnam. We can not live in any of the 5 Boros, over a bridge or out of state.

Good thing you told us. I along with most of the job did not know that. Including the 20 -30 who live in Dutchase (including a Deputy Chief), a (now retired) Deputy chief who lived in the eastern 1/2 of ct. I know the personnel directors brother lives near the Canadian Border a handful in CT, and at least 1 on L.I. Also in the past one who lived in Vermont.

Does the dept. prefer yu live local......Yes. Do they force it......you tell us.

[Guest]

Real estate taxes are 1/2 Westchester's taxes.

You are joking right? Whats the point of paying half the taxes if you can not send your children to the schools and have to worry about your family's safety?

[antiquefirelt 994]

I never really understood residency requirements for those who are not subject to recall. If you show up at work on time, how can they tell you where you can live? Some communities argue you must live "in-town" and share the tax burden of those who pay your salary, which makes more sense than allowing you to live outside city limits but within certain distance.

Our FD requires you to be subject to recall. As a small combo FD we need personnel to respond from home quite frequently for fires or to cover the station during multiple calls (mostly EMS). This is all part of the hiring packet. Though there is no requirement to actually respond to a given number or percentage of call from off duty. Our residency requirement is within 8 air nautical miles of the station! This of course allows for much greater overtime dollars, which helps.

[fire2141 33]

The absurdity of it is you can't live in Dutchess which in its closest NYC commute is 54 miles, but you can live in Orange County with a 78 mile drive from Pine Bush, not to mention having to drive over a Hudson River crossing.

[houlidsa 76]

As per the prior statement: "And FD and EMS are not allowed to ride the train, only PD." As a clarification only PD ride the train for free, unless we're in uniform on official business. (Not speaking for EMS, don't know their deal) I do think that the city selectively enforces the residency requirements and I think you will see it enforced even less with the amount of EMS promotions. Not an EMS bash, just saying if the city is promoting a ton of EMS to fire and they can live anywhere as EMS this can open a can of worms as I don't see possibly hundreds relocating this year alone. Don't get me wrong I'm all for them getting rid of this rule. I'll be a straight shot further up the thruway if it were not for it. Stay safe.

[Guest]

You are not allowed to ride the 'train' which in this forum is Metro North even in Uniform, you still pay. And like I said EMS is required to live in the restrictions if you have Civil Service Status, NOT all EMT's and Medic's have this status yet. It will be enforced as the IG has nothing else to do!

[robert benz 344]

What?! 'let'??? Who the hell do they think they are?! It's none of their damn business where their workers live so long as they turn up to work on time and in good shape. I sincerely hope & expect a court would tie a can to that if they ever tried to enforce it!

Mike

I might be mistaken, but i was told that you couldnt live outside the state because of the pension laws. And it has been in the courts and upheld. fdny has enforced it, and as was stated if you get caught you can be dismissed. correct me please if I am wrong.

[ny10570 745]

I'm pretty sure the residency requirement is not tied to civil service status. There was no mention of it in any of the exam notices or in the paperwork I signed. I believe its job specific. Many members of EMS live in Pa, Jersey, and way upstate. Hell, chief of EMS lives in Jersey. There are many that are so far out there that they chip in on crash apts or just sleep at the station on the hours between their shifts.

FDNY has repeatedly enforced the residency requirement and has always won in court. The crux of their argument is that you knew about it before you were hired. As long as they insist that its necessary for a potential recall its not going to change until its negotiated by the union.

Pension laws have no restrictions on your residence. The only restrictions there are once you earn a pension in NY your next pension needs to be in another state or federal.

[Guest]

Maybe I am wrong as all the people I know working in EMS are trying to back door the process to get into the fire side.

[10-Buff-4 0]

I believe that there is a law that requires police officers to reside within the State of New York. Until recently, it would have been an issue for police officers to carry a firearm in another state and I know that New Jersey still has restrictions about ammunition that can be carried.

I'll try to find the legislation for citation...

Not to open a major Pandora's Box, but, where does the Port Authority Police fit in all of that? Just curious because the Port Authority is a Bi-State agency, and, depending on one's assignment, one could arguably be making a Bi-State patrol on a regular basis.

Speaking of the rest, I don't see why Dutchess, Sullivan, and Columbia Counties in NY or Bergen, Essex, Hudson, and Union Counties in Jersey aren't permissible for FDNY/NYPD et al. The 4 Jersey Counties all share a border and a crossing (GWB, Lincoln Tunnel, Holland Tunnel, Goethals Bridge) with New York City, and, as someone mentioned, parts of Orange County are more remote than Dutchess, Sullivan, or Columbia County and are within recallable driving distance of the city. Just my two cents, it is a sad thing that more Firefighters, Police Officers, EMT's, et al. cannot live within the jurisdiction they protect.

-Joe DA BUFF

[Guest Loud412]

You are not allowed to ride the 'train' which in this forum is Metro North even in Uniform, you still pay. And like I said EMS is required to live in the restrictions if you have Civil Service Status, NOT all EMT's and Medic's have this status yet. It will be enforced as the IG has nothing else to do!

You may want to re-phrase the begining of this statement. I currently work for FDNY ems, and nothing in the operating guide says anything about not being "allowed" to ride the train in any form. Wether that be Metro North, LIRR, or NYC Transit. It has be mentiioned that its probably not a good idea to take any form of public transit or even walk around in uniform when off duty, simply due the the whole "Duty to act" thing. Because if your in uniform and you see a medical incident, legaly you must provide assistance.

As far as being required to adhere to the residency requirement after becoming civil service, as someone else has already mentioned no where in the civil service anouncement that i read last year when i applied said anything about a residency requirement. And the end all to that entire argument, Cheif John Peruggia, the top of the chain of command for the EMS side of the Fire department Lives in NJ.

[Guest]

You must know not a soul that works for the railroad. 'Ride' is a term that means free, as in no need to buy a ticket. I probably should have explained that. PD has it in State law allowing them to ride the train.

[JBE 328]

If memory serves me right, the residency requirement for EMS was tossed a few years back due to it being classified as hard to fill. As far as the Chief of EMS is concerned, he, along with a lot of other people probably got grandfathered in from his hire date.