Hawthorne's New 2008 KME Quint "Ladder 56"

[DaRock98 76]

Ok this is the first time I have uploaded photos. I hope this works.

Edited August 3, 2008 by x635
Resized first photo

[DaRock98 76]

Edited August 3, 2008 by jack10562
edited spacing

[DaRock98 76]

Edited August 3, 2008 by jack10562
edited spacing

[oilflame 0]

is that replacing there tower ladder right?

[Future Fireman 4]

That's a purty apparatus......for a quint.

Mike

[x635 4,066]

AWESOME! I didn't know that Hawthorne was getting a Quint..well I had heard something, but I thought it was going to be an ALF? Was it originally, until ALF hit those financial problems and several month shutdown?

I guess this is the new "Ladder 56"? Is it replacing Engine 156? If so, this is the perfect way to do it, IMO. Looks to be very versatile for a first-out structural vehicle, especially with limited crews and in tight areas. I really like the single axle and short wheelbase. This truck appears to be a workhorse, with no uneccesary "frills".

I love the LED compartment lighting as well....it really makes things easier to find at night.

Is TL-12 going to be replaced as well? I wouldn't think so, since every community and then some that borders Hawthorne already has a TL.

Anyways, thanks for the photos!!

[DaRock98 76]

is that replacing there tower ladder right?

No TL12 will remain in service.

AWESOME! I didn't know that Hawthorne was getting a Quint..well I had heard something, but I thought it was going to be an ALF? Was it originally, until ALF hit those financial problems and several month shutdown?

Yes you are right it was originally going to be an ALF until they had there problems.

I guess this is the new "Ladder 56"? Is it replacing Engine 156? If so, this is the perfect way to do it, IMO. Looks to be very versatile for a first-out structural vehicle, especially with limited crews and in tight areas. I really like the single axle and short wheelbase. This truck appears to be a workhorse, with no uneccesary "frills".

Yes as of right now Hawthorne is planning on replacing the current E156 with L56 for a first due apparatus. The plans are right now to sell E156 once this is delivered.(Hopefully around Labor day)

I love the LED compartment lighting as well....it really makes things easier to find at night.

Is TL-12 going to be replaced as well? I wouldn't think so, since every community and then some that borders Hawthorne already has a TL.

Not right now. TL12 is old but still in great condition. The plans are to keep this rig in service for now.

Anyways, thanks for the photos!!

Edited August 3, 2008 by DaRock98

[PVFD233 68]

Great Looking Quint! Good Luck With it.

[Guest]

so your gonna have a quint, a tower ladder, a utility, 2 engines andf a utility pick up truck...no wonder people b*tch about mt pleasant having too many ladders. personally i dont think it makes much sense to have both a strait stick and a tower ladder in the same department, a volly dept at that too. especially when your surrounded by them

[DaRock98 76]

so your gonna have a quint, a tower ladder, a utility, 2 engines andf a utility pick up truck...no wonder people b*tch about mt pleasant having too many ladders. personally i dont think it makes much sense to have both a strait stick and a tower ladder in the same department, a volly dept at that too. especially when your surrounded by them

No we are going to have only 1 engine. E156 is going to be sold. We are not getting rid of TL12 because there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. It has served us for over 20 years and never gave us a major problem and is still in great shape. Look at it this way we are giving up 2 rigs to get 1 in return. We gave our mini attack to pville VAC and we are selling 156. So we are actually consolidating our rigs.

[x635 4,066]

We gave our mini attack to pville VAC and we are selling 156. So we are actually consolidating our rigs.

What is PVAC going to use a mini-attack for? It seems like the pump and tank can be removed real easy. Seems like it would make a nice tactical support/MCI/first response unit.

[DaRock98 76]

What is PVAC going to use a mini-attack for? It seems like the pump and tank can be removed real easy. Seems like it would make a nice tactical support/MCI/first response unit.

They will be turning it into a rehab vehicle.

[Guest]

Whats the rating on the aerial? I think Hoboken has a rig like this, short WB single axle.

[x129K 1,393]

so your gonna have a quint, a tower ladder, a utility, 2 engines andf a utility pick up truck...no wonder people b*tch about mt pleasant having too many ladders. personally i dont think it makes much sense to have both a strait stick and a tower ladder in the same department, a volly dept at that too. especially when your surrounded by them

Care to expand on that comment K?

[DaRock98 76]

Whats the rating on the aerial? I think Hoboken has a rig like this, short WB single axle.

I am not sure but I will look into it for you.

Care to expand on that comment K?

Yes please expand I am wondering the something myself.

[Guest]

Looks like its only 75 feet. Is it longer?

[DaRock98 76]

Looks like its only 75 feet. Is it longer?

Yea its 75ft.

[WCDES-FTA 6]

If you go to KME's website and look at "Demo Vehicles", you will see the specs for this rig.

[x635 4,066]

so your gonna have a quint, a tower ladder, a utility, 2 engines andf a utility pick up truck...no wonder people b*tch about mt pleasant having too many ladders. personally i dont think it makes much sense to have both a strait stick and a tower ladder in the same department, a volly dept at that too. especially when your surrounded by them

As stated above, Hawthorne is selling the current Engine 156, and replacing it with this Quint. A think a Quint in a department that has the traditional daytime manpower shortages many departments face coupled with the increase in daytime population is an excellent idea, if the SOP's are written properly.

Let's not forget Hawthorne has numerous high-rise, high risk buildings within their jurisdiction. Westchester Medical Center, IBM, Rosary Hill Hospice, numerous group homes, numerous retail stores, Route 9A, etc etc. They decided to replace 156 with a Quint so that they'd have a tactical advantage of a short wheelbase rearmount straightstick that no one around them really has. Elmsford has a RM Straightstick quint, but it is a bit larger. At the same time, they are able to get a great "trade-in" value for Engine 156 since it really isn't that old, and keep their TL which is in excellent shape. They have made some smart choices.

Apparatus choices aren't made by whether a department is career or volunteer, apparatus choices are (ideally) made by what works best for the department and the community they serve.

[Bnechis 3,961]

A think a Quint in a department that has the traditional daytime manpower shortages many departments face coupled with the increase in daytime population is an excellent idea, if the SOP's are written properly.

NFPA 1710 says you need 4 on and engine and 4 on a truck. they also say if you run a quint you need more:

5.2.2.4 Fire companies that deploy with quint apparatus, designed to operate as either an engine company or a ladder

company, shall be staffed as specified in 5.2.2. If the company is expected to perform multiple roles simultaneously, additional staffing, above the levels specified in 5.2.2, shall be provided to ensure that those operations can be performed safely, effectively, and efficiently.

The problem with a quint when you have manpower shortages is you do both rolls poorly. Better to be a good engine and get mutual or auto aid for the truck. Technically you need at least 6 members to operate a quint.

Let's not forget Hawthorne has numerous high-rise, high risk buildings within their jurisdiction. Westchester Medical Center, IBM, Rosary Hill Hospice, numerous group homes, numerous retail stores, Route 9A, etc etc. They decided to replace 156 with a Quint so that they'd have a tactical advantage of a short wheelbase rearmount straightstick that no one around them really has. Elmsford has a RM Straightstick quint, but it is a bit larger. At the same time, they are able to get a great "trade-in" value for Engine 156 since it really isn't that old, and keep their TL which is in excellent shape. They have made some smart choices.

We have a 75' quint (now in reserve status) and its too short to ladder anything. with the setbacks of most of the buildings mentioned it will be of little use.

In my experience, quints can be any of the following:

An ok - fair engine and a poor truck

An ok - fair truck and a poor engine

Or just too big to get down the road.

ISO counts them as 1 and 1/2 units so this can hurt or help, but only if equiped properly. If you replace 1 vehicle with a quint you gaine 50% if you replace 2 you lose 50% according to ISO. I see from the pics it does not have the ground ladders needed to meet the standard, so it will not do well on the truck side. If they dont carry enough hose (which looks questionable) then they will also score poor on the engine side.

I hope this is a smart choise for them.

Apparatus choices aren't made by whether a department is career or volunteer, apparatus choices are (ideally) made by what works best for the department and the community they serve.

My comments have nothing to do with the type of manpower, just the lack of it and my experience with a couple of quints (we've owned 3, and I've evaluated a number of other depts for ISO ratings).

[Guest]

Care to expand on that comment K?

i just mean that with volly department's as of late not all of us can get manpower to accomidate all of our apparatus. lets face it recruitment has fallen way down for volly departments and people work more just to pay their bills and pay for GAS! maybe its just me but i have seen a major decline in the number of people who want to be volunteers. i remember in high school when people would flood in to their local fire departments to join, now you goto recruit and no one even cares your there.

on another note, where are the scott pack holders for the jump seats if any scott packs are even in the cab? cant really tell from the shots

[DaRock98 76]

ISO counts them as 1 and 1/2 units so this can hurt or help, but only if equiped properly. If you replace 1 vehicle with a quint you gaine 50% if you replace 2 you lose 50% according to ISO. I see from the pics it does not have the ground ladders needed to meet the standard, so it will not do well on the truck side. If they dont carry enough hose (which looks questionable) then they will also score poor on the engine side.

How many ground ladders are needed and how much and what type of hose is needed to get the full 50%?

The scott pack holders are on the seat those are just covers on the back of the seat.

Edited August 4, 2008 by DaRock98

[Bnechis 3,961]

How many ground ladders are needed and how much and what type of hose is needed to get the full 50%?

200' Booster or 200' preconnected 1-1/2" hose

1-1/2" carried 400 feet

1-1/2" spare (may also be carried) 200 feet

2-1/2" carried 400 feet

2-1/2" spare (may also be carried) 200 feet

2-1/2" or Larger carried 800 feet

14-ft. roof (for the engine credit)

16-ft. roof

20-ft. roof or 2) 16-ft. roof

24-ft. extension (for the engine credit)

28-ft. extension

35-ft. extension

Note: you also need to carry a minimum of 10 SCBA's and 10 spare tanks, plus full complement of engine and ladder equipment. Full size tandum axle quints dont have enough room to carry what required.

40-ft. extension or 2) 35-ft. extensions

[DaRock98 76]

200' Booster or 200' preconnected 1-1/2" hose

1-1/2" carried 400 feet

1-1/2" spare (may also be carried) 200 feet

2-1/2" carried 400 feet

2-1/2" spare (may also be carried) 200 feet

2-1/2" or Larger carried 800 feet

14-ft. roof (for the engine credit)

16-ft. roof

20-ft. roof or 2) 16-ft. roof

24-ft. extension (for the engine credit)

28-ft. extension

35-ft. extension

Note: you also need to carry a minimum of 10 SCBA's and 10 spare tanks, plus full complement of engine and ladder equipment. Full size tandum axle quints dont have enough room to carry what required.

40-ft. extension or 2) 35-ft. extensions

Thank You.

[GAW6 66]

Rosary Hill

Incorrect - Rosary Hill Home is in the THORNWOOD Fire District.

Good luck with the truck HFD! When's the wetdown???

[KelliPVAC 32]

Good luck HFD!!!! Can't wait to see it at the firehouse.

[Guest]

If Hawthorne was so concerned with consolidating apparatus how come it seems they went out and bought an identical utility to Valhalla's. If I were a taxpayer in that town I would certainly want an explanation. Valhalla is only down the road and neither utility is a first due appartus and is more of a support vehicle from what I gather.

[Guest lad56der]

If Hawthorne was so concerned with consolidating apparatus how come it seems they went out and bought an identical utility to Valhalla's. If I were a taxpayer in that town I would certainly want an explanation. Valhalla is only down the road and neither utility is a first due appartus and is more of a support vehicle from what I gather.

Hawthorne u-41 is 1st due to M.V.A's out of HFD's district. We go D.R. with thornwood and valhalla on some parts of the parkway. So if we get another call that e-155 would be assigned to, it wouldnt be tied up out of district on an MVA.

[Guest]

so what your saying is the rig was purchased to go first due to neighboring districts both of whom to my knowledge have some big rescue trucks. If hawthorne is so worried about being tied up with them then perhaps they should voice their concern. I don't know how many mva's there are in mount pleasant but i can't imagine there are that many so i still don't see the reason behind that purchase.

[DaRock98 76]

so what your saying is the rig was purchased to go first due to neighboring districts both of whom to my knowledge have some big rescue trucks. If hawthorne is so worried about being tied up with them then perhaps they should voice their concern. I don't know how many mva's there are in mount pleasant but i can't imagine there are that many so i still don't see the reason behind that purchase.

No that was not the reason behind the purchase of the utility truck. One of the MANY reasons was that our old utility was out dated and didn't carry much more then manpower to and from the firehouse, so when it was time to think about a new one Valhalla did and excellent job in specking theirs out and it carries a lot of useful equipment the dept heads decided to follow their lead and purchase something similar that we could get a lot of use out of besides just shuffling manpower around.

Yes this was a thread about Hawthorne's new ladder not the reasoning behind buying our utility. NYFIRE if you want to know more about our utility PM me and I will be glad to answer all of your questions since this seems to concern you so much.