Forcible Entry Problem

[Future Fireman 4]

Take a look at this unique forcible entry problem on vententersearch.com. How would you handle this problem, aside from the suggestions on VES?

Mike

[Future Fireman 4]

I know I'm answering my own question here, but why not torch the hinges off or break the brick around the lock with a heavy sledge?

The only problem with torching it is that the door may fall back on the FF cuttin, and that won't be too pretty.

Mike

[Ladder44 73]

Everyone have a cutting torch with them readily available? not really sure that would work for eveyone

[Future Fireman 4]

Everyone have a cutting torch with them readily available? not really sure that would work for eveyone

Well, it depends if the Dept. has the resources.

Mike

[abaduck 123]

Take a look at this unique forcible entry problem on vententersearch.com. How would you handle this problem, aside from the suggestions on VES?

That is interesting. Speaking from my vast inexperience, would it be possible to mitigate the hazard of the falling door by getting creative and operating from the platform of a tower ladder? As to how to get through the damn thing... time to call in the big guns? Back gouging / burning tube / oxygen lance type of setup?

Or, to get really crazy, break the round portholes on the window shutters, loop a chain through, attach to winch, and stand well clear... might just pull the whole thing out of the wall.

Mike

[Future Fireman 4]

That is interesting. Speaking from my vast inexperience, would it be possible to mitigate the hazard of the falling door by getting creative and operating from the platform of a tower ladder? As to how to get through the damn thing... time to call in the big guns? Back gouging / burning tube / oxygen lance type of setup?

Or, to get really crazy, break the round portholes on the window shutters, loop a chain through, attach to winch, and stand well clear... might just pull the whole thing out of the wall.

Mike

...but you might bring the whole building down with it, seeing as it is abandoned!

[Guest FFNick]

It is too bad that we do not see the rest of the front of this structure, or the rear. There was a post on VES that stated:

knowing how things are in baltimore if you walked around back you’d probably come to find the back door wide open or the roof collapsed into the basement and the only thing left standing is the wall on side A

There might be a lot too that.

But if all else fails, personally, I think that in a pinch, abaduck was on to something:

Or, to get really crazy, break the round portholes on the window shutters, loop a chain through, attach to winch, and stand well clear... might just pull the whole thing out of the wall.

Seems to me that almost 99% of the time, the attachment points are the weakest part of any exterior mounted security device. I would bet that this is no different. As far as cutting the hinges with a saw/torch, etc. there is a lot of weight there, and I'd be afraid of the door(s) falling out onto personnel.

No matter what the decision is, there is no quick entry scenario. So, unfortunately, if there is any significant body of fire in that occupancy, you are looking at a lot of extension. With that, it is probably a good idea to begin gaining entry into the adjoining units and going to the top floor in an attempt to keep extension in check.

Someone else mentioned wacking it with a Tower Ladder, which makes a lot of sense, too.

[FFPCogs 863]

It's always hard to give a definitive answer from a one dimensional view. First off though..try before you pry!

Why do we need to get in...people trapped? Or simply fire suppression. If people are trapped we need to get in ASAP. So for all the time needed to torch or saw through 1/2 steel plate safely maybe a couple of mauls to the wall is just as effective from either the exterior or the adjoining buildings. Obviously access from another opening in the rear would be the best scenario.

If it's suppression only we have a little more time and our options increase.

Here's a crazy idea...get a copy of the key(s) beforehand from the owner/tenant or have the FMs office order a knox box installed!! Always remember work smarter not harder.

Cogs

[ny10570 745]

If people are inside, how did they get in? Often they get in through a adjoining vacant that isn't as well secured. Windows are often not as well secured as doors since they're harder to access without ladders. While the door is locked into the wall, the window plates will be most likely locked to each other. Ladder between the window and door. Cut the hinges on one side and the whole thing should swing wide open away from the door. Now you can either make that your entry point or you cut the door from the inside. If they're anchored properly you will spend all day working with a maul or trying to pry. K12 with metal blade is going to be your fastest option unless you regularly operate a cutting torch.

[CFD320 35]

Take a look at this unique forcible entry problem on vententersearch.com. How would you handle this problem, aside from the suggestions on VES?

Mike

If there was some reason compelling us to VES I would attack the masonry. The brick is for sure the weakest link there, that window can be forced quickly with a maul I would bet. Controlling the plates as they come down would be the most challenging part of that force. Also, is the window to the right of the door the same building? If it is, that is an even weaker link...