Size Up Reminder

[x635 4,066]

Found this in my photo collection. I believe Radnor FD in PA posts this in a visible location in the officers areas of the apparatus.

Thought others would find it cool...

[antiquefirelt 994]

I have mixed feelings about this sign. My first was anyone riding in the O seat better have committed this to memory and can recall any and all of the 13 points at any time. This is basic fundamental officer stuff. My second thoughts are actually preety much the same, so I lean toward this being a crutch for a broken promotion system.

[Monty 35]

I have mixed feelings about this sign. My first was anyone riding in the O seat better have committed this to memory and can recall any and all of the 13 points at any time. This is basic fundamental officer stuff. My second thoughts are actually pretty much the same, so I lean toward this being a crutch for a broken promotion system.

I respectfully disagree. I think it is a good idea (even assuming that the officer has been taught / learnt this), that's why airline pilots use checklists. They know the stuff by heart, do it all the time yet still they have those checklists.

We're all human, all fallible, why not use the tools available to us to do our job better?

[antiquefirelt 994]

I respectfully disagree. I think it is a good idea (even assuming that the officer has been taught / learnt this), that's why airline pilots use checklists. They know the stuff by heart, do it all the time yet still they have those checklists.

We're all human, all fallible, why not use the tools available to us to do our job better?

Like I said, I have mixed feelings about it. I see checklists as tools to ensure we're getting things done, but are they allowing us to be lax in our skills? At first glance I think one might think checklists are a good idea, but at some point some information must be committed to memory and become second nature. Size-up is one of these. I don't think stopping to peruse a checklist is better than knowing size-up cold. But better than missing something? Yes!

Airline pilots do not have to face the same dynamic emergency that a fire officer faces. Sure pilots have high stress jobs, but if they stop and take a breath or two it's OK as it's built into a timeframe that allows for this. Rarely will a fire officer have the luxury of stopping to make sure a checklist is completed for size-up. A tactical worksheet yes, benchmark items, yes, but size-up is an initial action that takes place before any action in a very compressed timeframe. Maybe the secondary size-up report, like FDNY gives a few minutes in would fit the checklist, but rolling in? Not so much.

Sadly I think this is sort of a sign of the times. We are forced to learn and remember far too much to ensure we know it all at the drop of a hat. With EMS, NIMS, Haz-Mat, Pathogen training, sexual harassment and all the other mandatory training, skills like performing a proper size-up are relagated to checklists to ensure we don't forget them. I know in my dept. every promotion process tests candidates knowledge of size-up. Not just knowing WALLACE WAS HOT or COAL WAS WEALTH, but determining occupncy, building construction, knowing all alarm responses including mutaul aid capabilites, water supply systems, and target hazards. I'm not trying to be anti-volunteer but promotions must be based on who can do the job the best, often in non-career settings this is not done.

[Monty 35]

Like I said, I have mixed feelings about it. I see checklists as tools to ensure we're getting things done, but are they allowing us to be lax in our skills? At first glance I think one might think checklists are a good idea, but at some point some information must be committed to memory and become second nature. Size-up is one of these. I don't think stopping to peruse a checklist is better than knowing size-up cold. But better than missing something? Yes!

Airline pilots do not have to face the same dynamic emergency that a fire officer faces. Sure pilots have high stress jobs, but if they stop and take a breath or two it's OK as it's built into a timeframe that allows for this. Rarely will a fire officer have the luxury of stopping to make sure a checklist is completed for size-up. A tactical worksheet yes, benchmark items, yes, but size-up is an initial action that takes place before any action in a very compressed timeframe. Maybe the secondary size-up report, like FDNY gives a few minutes in would fit the checklist, but rolling in? Not so much.

Sadly I think this is sort of a sign of the times. We are forced to learn and remember far too much to ensure we know it all at the drop of a hat. With EMS, NIMS, Haz-Mat, Pathogen training, sexual harassment and all the other mandatory training, skills like performing a proper size-up are relagated to checklists to ensure we don't forget them. I know in my dept. every promotion process tests candidates knowledge of size-up. Not just knowing WALLACE WAS HOT or COAL WAS WEALTH, but determining occupncy, building construction, knowing all alarm responses including mutaul aid capabilites, water supply systems, and target hazards. I'm not trying to be anti-volunteer but promotions must be based on who can do the job the best, often in non-career settings this is not done.

Understood. Certainly I wasn't envisioning a rig pulling up and the Officer sitting there and going through the list. I do think it would be a good reminder as you are responding and preparing for arrival - helping get your mind on the game.

[CFD320 35]

This is the same 13 point size-up FDNY teaches in proby school, they use this same acronym too.

Every member (not just officers) should be sizing up the second they step out their door to head into work or to the alarm, weather conditions time etc. Size-up does not end until your company has returned from the alarm.

[antiquefirelt 994]

This is the same 13 point size-up FDNY teaches in proby school, they use this same acronym too.

Every member (not just officers) should be sizing up the second they step out their door to head into work or to the alarm, weather conditions time etc. Size-up does not end until your company has returned from the alarm.

Excellent point. Everyone should be intimately familiar with the 13 points of size-up, not just officers. Ultimately the fire may hold all of us accountable if we don't conduct a personal size-up properly.