Volunteer Duty To Act

[NWFDMedic 58]

Ok lets throw another twist in this situation you are out on driver training in your ambulance with NO EMT on board with you. The people in the bus are drivers only. What happens if you come across a MVA with injuries and your department does not allow you to drive your POV to the scene and the other ambulance you have is already out on a call. What do you do?

Well, I would hope for the sake of your department that the ambulance was properly labeled as out of service and depending on your protocol taken out of service with your dispatch agency. It was probably pretty poor planning on the part of the crew involved to have the next due ambulance out on driver training without a crew; you effectively left your jurisdiction without coverage. I would not take an engine out in my volunteer department for driver training without a full crew if it was expected that said engine was going to be first due for an incident.

If I was in this situation in an OOS vehicle, I would probably use the apparatus to make the scene safe and call for the proper resources. If an EMT responded to the station, I would hope they could take a utility, meet up with a chief officer with a district vehicle OR (novel concept) break your standard operating guidelines and get the EMT to the scene in his/her POV. SOG's are made to assist you in the performance of every day duties, they should not override good judgment.

[Guest MVFD334]

Thats a crappy situtation there.. Like NWFD said, you should be out of service therefor the call should go mutual aid. Or when the rescue truck rolls hopefully there would be an EMT on board that could complete the crew. This is something that could very well happen but if the dept had a policy in place that an emt had to be on board for driving training, you wouldnt be one ambulance down.

[Bnechis 3,961]

If i'm reading your post correctly, its most likely because EMS calls don't require the manpower you'd need for a MVA or fire call. Having 40 or 50 people show up for an EMS call would be a waste of manpower and time. If you have 5-6 people to assist at an EMS scene normally thats all you need.

When I worked as a flycar medic, it was common for me to wait 15 - 20 minutes as they paged for any available EMT or Driver for the sick male, but 30 seconds after they tossed the call to mutual aid, they had no problem getting multiple rigs out the door for the Pin Job.

Medical emergencies need 2-6 (depending on severity).......Pin jobs do not need 20 - 30 (particularly for the single vehicle mva

[Bnechis 3,961]

Kudos to whichever Moderator is calling people out on this board to cite the rules/laws/statutes, etc., that are so easily thrown around as gospel.

I don't believe there are any laws or statues, but NYS DOH teaching plans and every EMS textbook describe the EMS Duty to Act. Duty to act is often a test question on NYS EMS certifying exams. I've been to a number of Legal seminars run by Fire and or EMS providers who are lawyers that specialize in emergency service issues. They've always said you can find it in case law (which means past lawsuits) Basically if you are "on duty"....(ie. signed up for a shift) you will lose in court if you dont respond. Otherwise volunteers generally don't have a legal obligation to act. The same can be said for "off duty" career personnel, dont generally have a duty to act, once they sign in at work, they dont get to pick and chosie which calls sound "good"

[Bnechis 3,961]

Patient abandonment.

You must have been on a run during your on duty EMT training when medical legal was covered. If you advertise that you are an EMT, stickers, lights on your car and you pass an accident scene and someone grabs your license plate, you could be cited for patient abandonment. It has to be proven that the EMT was driving and he aid would have made a difference. The chances of this happening are slight, however it could.

1st who will "cite" you?

2nd its not abandoment, if you never started patient care. The first legal point that must be proven by the plantif is that an emergency existed. The 2nd legal point is duty to act. If they have not proven D.t.A. then you can "abbandon".

3rd. If someone complains to NYS DOH that you had a duty to act and failed to, NYS BEMS could charge you and a DOH ALJ could fine you or suspend your EMS certification.

[Guest]

Ok lets throw another twist in this situation you are out on driver training in your ambulance with NO EMT on board with you. The people in the bus are drivers only. What happens if you come across a MVA with injuries and your department does not allow you to drive your POV to the scene and the other ambulance you have is already out on a call. What do you do?

great ??? again.I know my drivers would stop and call for a Emt. Being the Emt that is not board. I would go to station and call for a drive for the small fire rescue truck or transport from the chief, assist chief. We are able to use POV thank god

[CAM502 6]

CAM502, to clarify what you wrote, there does not have to be a hand-off only to a higher medical authority. It has to be an equal, OR higher medical authority.

For example, if you are an EMT-B, from out of the area, and you pull up on an MVA and assist, and another EMT-B from the local department arrives, you CAN transfer care to them.

As far as handing-off to a "higher" medical authority, an EMT-B cannot hand-off to a CFR, but a CFR can hand off to an EMT. Same goes for a medic. A medic cannot hand-off a patient to an EMT-B, unless the medic has declared the patient to not need ALS intervention, in turn making them a BLS patient, therefore, the hand-off to a "lower" medical authority is acceptable.

Yes sir you are correct....

[Guest Loud412]

For the people talking about having stickers all over their vehicle...unless this sticker is on the vehicle visable from three sides, then you arent legaly identified as an emergency medical service equied vehicle and therefore have no duty to act.

[Guest EFFP411]

For the people talking about having stickers all over their vehicle...unless this sticker is on the vehicle visable from three sides, then you arent legaly identified as an emergency medical service equied vehicle and therefore have no duty to act.

And to add to that, if you have a well visible "OUT OF SERVICE" sticker on your windshield, it doesn't matter how many NYS certified stickers you have, or what you pass by, because you are not in service. You do not have to give a reason, all they need to know is you are not capable of treating a patient at that point in time.

[Monty 35]

I was reading the latest firehouse magazine (August 2008) and there's a pretty good article that addresses this topic.

I tried finding it in the link that was mentioned here previously for the NYS Library - they only have the July issue online so far. (This link - http://find.galegroup.com.dmvgateway.nysed...amp;source=gale - may lead you to it eventually.)

Essentially, as a bystander (not on duty) - you have no legal duty to act (regardless if FF / EMT / LEO). If you do get involved though, you create a 'special relationship' and you do then become responsible to act (whatever that may mean).

So, the article by Curt Varone talks about duty to act. He states that the concept dates back to English common law and holds that no one is obligated to come to the assistance of another in the absence of a special relationship. ie in general no one has a duty to help another.

The exception is where there is a 'special relationship' - such as parent - child, employer - employee, teacher - student. Other examples are contracted persons (lifeguards, doctor - patient), someone who voluntarily assumes responsibility (eg someone who voluntarily starts CPR), someone that creates a dangerous situation, sworn duty (LEO, FF on duty). Additionally Curt says that many states have adopted legislation that requires people to act (eg car driver that causes an accident must render first aid).

The next part refers to scope of duty. He cites an example of a day care that was sued for not 'providing adequate life saving aid'. Essentially in the end the case was rejected on appeal. The center had a duty to act, which they fulfilled by calling EMS. How about a window washer that is incapacitated - the local fd does not have high angle capabilities. There's a delay getting a rope rescue team. The FD is sued for not having rope rescue capabilities - but did they act by calling a rope rescue team (as they did not have that capability)?

My own local twist .... a boater has a fire in the Hudson. The AHJ does not have a fire boat - they call for a fire boat - have they fullfilled their duty to act?

There are a couple of other case studies - and the question asked - what is the appropriate assistance? Who decides - basically the court / jury.

The article then goes on to cover public sector cases. In general, there is very limited duty to act (with supporting cases), however there is an example where a dispatcher says an ambulance has been dispatched and would arrive momentarily. This created the 'special relationship'. In general, there are 4 cases that lead to the 'special relationship':

1 An explicit assurance by the government to the victim

2 Knowledge by the government that inaction could lead to harm

3 Direct contact between the government (actor) and the victim

4 The victim justifiably relies on the government (actors) assurances

Interestingly, another example cited is the case in Waterford NY. On appeal, this was sent back to the Jury, because the fire department physically restrained the husband from entering the building to rescue his wife (where she died) from the fire. The court said it was for the jury to decide if a special relationship was created, and if so was that duty breached. Unfortunately, searching on Google I couldn't find anything more on this.

Then there are several examples where the FD / Town / State was not held liable for a duty to act - in some cases even though they were called, and did act they were still not held liable in the regard of duty to act.

So, in general I would say form this that if you are off duty (whatever that may mean as a 'sworn' officer) - there is no legal duty to act. Morally? Maybe a different story.

On duty - quite probably a legal duty to act. However, that may only mean notifying someone that is able to handle the situation. In the case of a 'bus' with no EMT coming upon an MVA, your duty to act may be just to call the dispatch center. Of course, I would think you would want to asses injuries to your trained level (CPR, FR, nothing), block traffic, make the scene safe etc (according to your training).

[Guest MVFD334]

I had thought that if a crime is being commited, and LEO (off duty) had a duty to act. That the LEO would be covered by his dept. Maybe I was thinking while they had a gun and badge on them? The only reason I believe this to be true is due to the fact that off duty officers carrying weapons, if they had no duty to act then why would they have a weapon? can anyone clarify this?

[Goose 188]

I've got a novel idea. Stay the hell away unless your dispatched. Rolling up or going into a scene in which your not requested makes you part of the problem, especially when you have no idea what your dealing with and or doing. Recently had a very bad experience where some people decided to be heroes after hearing something on a scanner and walked in on a crime scene without a clue. Just stay away.

[Monty 35]

I had thought that if a crime is being commited, and LEO (off duty) had a duty to act. That the LEO would be covered by his dept. Maybe I was thinking while they had a gun and badge on them? The only reason I believe this to be true is due to the fact that off duty officers carrying weapons, if they had no duty to act then why would they have a weapon? can anyone clarify this?

From my limited understanding of the law, the question is around 'off-duty'. Maybe within your town, county, state etc you are never off-duty. Dunno - may be one of these iffy areas for the court to decide. I'd be surprised though, that if you are a village PO in NY that you have a legal obligation to intervene with a crime while on vacation in RI.

This may just be an urban legend to support the carrying of weapons off-duty.

Got to say though - I agree with Mr(s) Goose

Just to get things going a bit more. One of the cases cited is a lawsuit against an FD where the ladder on the ladder truck was out of service. It was dispatched to a fatal fire - the court ruled that their was no special relationship and the lawsuit was dismissed.

[OnTheWheel 43]

I had thought that if a crime is being commited, and LEO (off duty) had a duty to act. That the LEO would be covered by his dept. Maybe I was thinking while they had a gun and badge on them? The only reason I believe this to be true is due to the fact that off duty officers carrying weapons, if they had no duty to act then why would they have a weapon? can anyone clarify this?

Like I said, yes we are required to act. But "act" doesnt mean get in the middle of a gun fight with no gun and your badge hanging out. Acting could include calling 911, getting descriptions of perps etc. But going home is the top of any cops list.

[Guest MVFD334]

Like I said, yes we are required to act. But "act" doesnt mean get in the middle of a gun fight with no gun and your badge hanging out. Acting could include calling 911, getting descriptions of perps etc. But going home is the top of any cops list.

Yeah I didnt think that you guys (gals) had to get in the middle of a hairy situations. Amen to the going home.