Is the spirit of volunteerism dead?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Thats all well and good in places that have 4 or more departments in a 5 square mile area, like certain little areas in westchester. But how the heck would you "consolidate" in places like dutchess county, where the average town is 40+ square miles?

If counties all over this country can run at a county wide level then why can't dept's in NY?

One county in So. Caroline thats as rural if not more so than dutchess did so and within 5 years moved 90% of the county from ISO 9 to a 4. All in areas with NO HYDRANTS. thats a 40% reduction in insurance premiums for every property for the next 15 years.

Great Britan consolidate 450 depts. down to 50 in 3 countries, many with large areas of farmland. They were forced to do it because of WWII, but found it worked so well they never went back.

It can be done and done well, if you want it.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Thats all well and good in places that have 4 or more departments in a 5 square mile area, like certain little areas in westchester. But how the heck would you "consolidate" in places like dutchess county, where the average town is 40+ square miles? I do agree albany needs to stop wasting its time with tax credits, and other crap, and put it to good use, like cutting the rediculous tax on gas.... Its an attitude like yours that makes me sick to my stomach!

I'm with Barry on this one. Believe it or not the wheel wasn't invented in NY and most of the thing that come along in the fire service don't happen here either. All you have to do is look. I came from a system in Virginia that covered an entire county similiar size to Dutchess with 6 companies when I was there and added 2 more due to population increases. There are counties with way larger populations that the lower hudson valley and run county systems as well. All it takes is open minds, fearless leaders, bright and eager managers and for egos to be dropped and pride funneled in the right direction.

How are some towns such sizes and only have 1 firehouse that you would think is somewhat "strategically" placed in the center and with no staffing whatsoever. Consolodate....stay combo and work out staffing.

I don't use loaded phrases...I am a pro service member of the fire service and for the 2 different LOSAP programs I've been in, both were supposed to aid in recruiting and retention and at it hasn't at either. More programs to cost more money that has to come from somewhere else. Help us all out and use the money to create good jobs. Give more funding to my kids school district. Work on inner city poverty...you'll save even more money then when the crime rate reduces. Get funding like the federal SAFER act so smaller municipalities achieve better staffing that isn't just safer for their citizens but all the firefighters in the department career or combo.

[Remember585 815]

People would volunteer more if they werent being discouraged and being kicked out of a agency for no good reason at all. How can a volunteer agency afford to kick somebody out for no good reason at all? (thats 1 less resource/man power/ pair of hand?). Why volunteer if there is so much bs/drama that come with joining? People today want money, But volunteering is still alive.

Please elaborate.

[jack10562 414]

No agency is going to "kick-out' anyone for "no good reason" ...

If someone tries to volunteer somewhere and has the time to train and continues to meet minimum "membership" requirements, then they do what they can when they can.

If there are personality issues, and drama, ( and believe me, I know, there almost always is in every volunteer organization)

then they can simply leave. Nobody has to put up with BS they don't want to be around.

Or if they can't cut it, than that's a reason.

[Guest]

Thank God for Volunteer FDs

If there wasnt any I wouldnt be a FF

[Guest MVFD334]

In general. This goes for any job (not just police, fire or ems). If you have to put up with so much bs/drama why would you stay there with an agency and volunteer? Why put up with it if your not getting paid? This drama/bs turns some (not all)members off. They dont want to particpate, they want to due there time and get out, they avoid members, show there faces alot less, they dont want to answer pager calls or even go on pager calls with people who are the drama.

The cost of gas is going up? Need money to fill up pov tanks.

If you have a bad experience with an agency and they kick you out, your going to get turned of to this field. Or if you go to another department you may want to do the above and only have half your heart into it. But volunteering is still alive and there are only a handfull of people who do it.

You gotta remember why your there first and foremost.. And sometimes when your new and havent been around the block like the other guys your gonna have to eat some s***. that is like that in every single thing you do, school work, play watever. Go down, go to calls, do the training and leave, you dont have to sit around and get caught up in all the gossip.. Take advantage of everything it has to offer, learn from the people who know what they're doing and the ones that you know will keep you safe. And if after that you still dont like it, quit. No one is forcing you.

[Guest EFFP411]

I don't use loaded phrases...I am a pro service member of the fire service and for the 2 different LOSAP programs I've been in, both were supposed to aid in recruiting and retention and at it hasn't at either. More programs to cost more money that has to come from somewhere else. Help us all out and use the money to create good jobs. Give more funding to my kids school district. Work on inner city poverty...you'll save even more money then when the crime rate reduces. Get funding like the federal SAFER act so smaller municipalities achieve better staffing that isn't just safer for their citizens but all the firefighters in the department career or combo.

ALS, just so we are clear, I know you're not one of the troublemakers, whenever you speak its always from experience, and never means to cause a riot. Some other people however, don't have the same good intentions. The county wide fire/ems system is a great idea, with all the good intentions behind it, but you know as well as i do that it would take a miracle to make it work, including getting the politicians to cut their BS and actually make an attempt to do it right, not just make empty promises, or try to stretch every penny for a mile. In order for a county wide system to work, the most important part would be getting everyone to work together, and i think hades might freeze over first.....

And back on topic, i happened to look up and see what Dave27 wrote. As long as there are guys like him around, the heart of volunteerism will never die. They are the ones why drive it, doing it because its something they love, but would never be able to do it as a job. It might get buried under some crap and red tape, but it is still there regardless....

Edited July 10, 2008 by EFFP411

[Guest alsfirefighter]

EFFP. I meant no pointed comment directly at you. Just making a comment in general and clarifying that my comment wasn't meant to be loaded. I never attempt to make malicious trouble. Some things however need to be said and most on here know me being an instructor and I don't take shots, I am pro service, operate on both sides of the fence, teach both sides of the fence. I appreciate that recognition. Its very appreciated.

As far as consolidation. We are our own worst enemies first. If people took control and emotion out of it. It would work, work well, create more jobs for younger guys yearning to be paid firefighters but languish where they live because of few slots and residency and so on. For some districts it would increase calls because it would open up more 2nd, 3rd and 4th due alarms across the board. But instead lets hunker down over some of the most silly s*** I've ever seen and pretend like we don't see the writing on the wall. I just really love it. All in the name of control and other ridiculous bullshit that does nothing but impede service, right down to what I see as immoral and in some cases criminal.

[Monty 35]

A lot of what is listed is "feel good" legislation. Politicians frequently target or even champion causes that have broad appeal to secure re-election or gain support for their party. This is no-risk policy!

Even if its years from now, one of these guys or gals can say, "I was the key supporter of bill XYZ to help our volunteers in these desperate times! I care about the community! See? See?"

Its the same thing with nonsensical gun control. Sure, the statistics say that it doesn't make a difference and politicians like Carolyn McCarthy might not even know what they've proposed, but the sheeple can sit around and shiver with contentment knowing that someone is protecting them. That alone can secure many votes.

Just been on a nice long car trip from the Adirondacks ... we had schoolhouse rock on for the kids. Remember "I'm only a Bill"?

I bet there's only a very small number of these that actually get signed in to law, especially if they have any fiscal impact on the State Budget. However, the Politician can still put their hand on their heart and say they went to bat for the local Department.