Is the spirit of volunteerism dead?

[helicopper 1,050]

As the title suggests, I'm wondering about what happened to the spirit of volunteering? I started out as a volunteer and all we received was a t-shirt (and sometimes we bought those). Sure our training was free and we sometimes had food at our events but things have really REALLY changed.

The thread about a tax credit got me curious and I did a quick search on the Legislature's website. The following is a list of proposed and/or enacted legislation pertaining to the volunteer service in just the Assembly. Many of these are mirrored in the Senate.

So I ask, do we need this much legislative assistance just to get people to volunteer???

What am I missing?

A00414 Grants 10% real property tax exemption on seasonal residences to members of certain volunteer fire companies and departments on Fire Island

A00514 Establishes a volunteer firefighters` benefit claim assistance unit to initiate contact with firefighter or surviving dependents and assist with claims

A00698 Incorporates the Hartland Volunteer Exempt Firefighter`s Benevolent Association

A01038 Establishes a volunteer firefighter/EMT recruitment incentive and retention program for volunteer firefighters and volunteer emergency medical technicians

A01070 Authorizes firefighters and ambulance workers who reside in one town but volunteer their services in another town to take advantage of certain real property tax exemptions

A01186 Establishes a tuition assistance program for volunteer firefighters and volunteer emergency medical service personnel

A01194 Establishes the volunteer firefighters and emergency medical service volunteer tuition assistance grant program

A01225 Provides tax credit to volunteer firefighters and volunteer ambulance workers under certain circumstances

A01236 Allows volunteer firefighters, volunteer auxiliary members, or members of a bonafide veterans` organization to solicit funds on roadways

A01240 Authorizes volunteer fire and ambulance companies to receive grants for local government records management improvement

A01412 Provides a real property tax exemption for members of voluntary fire companies and ambulance services in certain counties and municipalities, upon election

A01784 Gives state income tax credit to volunteer firefighters and members of a volunteer ambulance corps in good standing up to $1200

A02144 Includes school taxes in the real property tax exemption for certain volunteer firefighters and ambulance workers if the school district decides to opt in

A02148 Authorizes Rockland community college to establish a tuition reduction program for active members of the volunteer fire companies and ambulance corps in Rockland

A02433 Allows firefighters who live in one town but volunteer in another town to take advantage of the real property tax exemptions

A02507 Relates to providing reimbursement for the cost of EMT training courses completed by volunteer firefighters

A02637 Establishes the volunteer firefighting and volunteer emergency services recruitment and retention fund and authorizes gifts to such fund through a state incometax check-off

A02676 Extends the enhanced STAR exemption to permanent total disabled volunteer firefighters

A02727 Provides tax credit to volunteer firefighters and volunteer ambulance workers

A03144 Exempts motor vehicles owned by volunteer firefighters and used in firefighter duties from the payment of fees and use tax for the registration of their vehicles

A03218 Provides a tax exemption on real property owned by members of volunteer fire companies or voluntary ambulance services in a certain county

A03429 Exempts active volunteer firefighters from jury duty upon claiming exemption therefrom

A03532 Authorizes the state fire administrator to establish and administer a plan of health insurance for volunteer firefighters and their dependents

A03552 Provides that participation in individual physical fitness sessions at approved facilities shall be covered benefits for volunteer firefighters

A03554 Removes requirement that a volunteer firefighter have a right to a nonforfeitable percentage of retirement income in order to be entitled to certain death benefits

A03728 Allows volunteer firefighters and ambulance workers to participate in public health insurance plans

A04113 Provides a tax exemption on real property owned by members of volunteer fire companies or voluntary ambulance services in certain counties

A04351 Enacts the "volunteer firefighter and ambulance worker protection and incentiv eact of 2007"

A04636 Requires public utility companies to charge volunteer ambulance corps and volunteer fire companies the same rates and charges applicable to residential customers

A04666 Provides a tax exemption for certain tax bills paid by members of volunteer fire companies or volunteer ambulance services

A04695 Authorizes a tax credit for employers who employ volunteer firefighters or emergency medical services personnel and permit, without penalty, their absences forduty

A04880 Excludes from federal adjusted gross income the amount of any service award paid to a volunteer firefighter or volunteer ambulance worker

A04895 Exempts the amount of any service award paid to any volunteer firefighter or ambulance worker from personal income tax

A05061 Relates to additional credit to volunteer firefighters and volunteer ambulance workers in competitive examinations

A05068 Doubles maximum income limitations for volunteer firefighters

A05174 Enacts the "volunteer firefighter and ambulance worker protection and incentiveact of 2007"

A05186 Enacts the "omnibus emergency services volunteer incentive act" to provide certain benefits to volunteer firefighters and ambulance workers

A05235 Eliminates service charge on distinctive plates for volunteer firefighters

A05328 Provides that volunteer firefighters and volunteer ambulance workers may receive up to thirty points for training courses of over 100 hours duration

A05562 Provides tax credit to certain volunteer firefighters, volunteer ambulance workers and volunteer emergency medical personnel

A05578 Provides a modification reducing federal gross income in determining New York adjusted gross income for active volunteer firefighters and volunteer ambulance members

A05685 Increases the tax credit allowable to volunteer firefighters, volunteer ambulance workers, and volunteer emergency medical personnel

A05866 For taxable years after 2007, excludes volunteer firefighters and ambulance workers from receiving tax credit if receiving real property tax exemption for suchservice

A05872 Repeals provision prohibiting volunteer firefighters from receiving both the local option real property tax exemption and the personal income tax credit at thesame time; repealer

A06030 Authorizing the town of Malta to adopt a local law providing for a partial abatement of town taxes assessed for the funding of town emergency services

A06109 Authorizes certain counties to reduce the waiting period for tax exemptions forvolunteer firefighters and volunteer ambulance workers

A06448 Increases the funeral and lump sum death benefit for volunteer firefighters

A06655 Relates to an exemption for real property owned by an incorporated volunteer fire company or fire department

A06799 Relates to the volunteer firefighters` and ambulance workers` property tax credit

A06836 Creates a wage tax credit for employers who employ New York national guard men and women, reservists, volunteer firefighters and EMS personnel

A07567 Exempts local property tax rebates received by volunteer firefighters and volunteer ambulance workers from state and local personal income taxation

A07656 Increases the real property tax exemption for volunteer firefighters and ambulance workers and decreases the vesting period for such exemption in certain counties

A07680 Increases the tax credit allowed volunteer firefighters or ambulance workers from two hundred dollars to five hundred dollars

A07699 Relates to a volunteer firefighter and volunteer ambulance worker health program

A07751 Gives state income tax credit to volunteer firefighters and members of a volunteer ambulance corps in good standing up to $2500

A07772 Eliminates provision that volunteer firefighter or ambulance worker must residein county referred to in order to be granted real property tax exemption

A07854 Establishes the payment of certain volunteer firefighter death benefits shall be within ninety days of the filing of application to receive such death benefit

A07895 Grants volunteer firefighters and emergency medical technicians academic creditat SUNY and CUNY

A07897 Authorizes the town of Wheatfield tax assessor to accept an application for property tax exemption from the First Volunteer Fire Company of Bergholz, Inc.

A08085 Reduces the years of active service necessary for volunteer firefighters and volunteer ambulance workers to receive a real property tax exemption

A08305 Relates to the residency requirements for the Slingerlands fire district I in Albany county

A08478 Authorizes Rockland community college to establish a tuition reduction program for active members of the volunteer fire companies and ambulance corps in Rockland

A08907 Authorizes Rockland county to reduce the waiting period for tax exemptions for volunteer firefighters and volunteer ambulance workers

A08908 Includes school taxes in the real property tax exemption for certain volunteer firefighters and ambulance workers if the school district decides to opt in

A08909 Provides tax credit to certain volunteer firefighters, volunteer ambulance workers and volunteer emergency medical personnel

A09101 Grants additional credit to volunteer firefighters in competitive civil serviceexaminations for appointment and promotion, also for retention

A09221 Relates to permitting certain holders of class DJ and class MJ licenses to drive to volunteer fire and ambulance activities

A09532 Incorporates the Crittenden Volunteer Exempt Firefighter`s Benevolent Association

A09542 Permits volunteer firefighter to be eligible for membership in more than one fire company at a time

A09734 Requires thruway authority to reimburse for police, fire and emergency servicesrendered on the thruway

A09864 Repeals provision that volunteer firefighters and ambulance workers who receivea real property tax exemption for service may not receive the income tax credit

A09922 Extends a presumption relating to certain lung disabilities incurred by volunteer firefighters until June 30, 2010

A09957 Authorizes and directs the workers` compensation board to redetermine the awardof volunteer firefighter disability benefits to William DuBois of New Paltz, New York

A09958 Makes permanent provisions of the volunteer firefighters` benefit law relating to claims for benefits when a firefighter suffers heart related death or disability; repealer

A10008 Relates to the residency requirement for the real property tax exemption for volunteer firefighters and volunteer ambulance workers in certain counties

A10037 Includes medical assistance rendered while such workers are off duty within theduties and activities in relation to which benefits shall be paid and provided

A10225 Establishes the volunteer firefighters and emergency medical service volunteer tuition assistance grant program

A10319 Includes medical assistance rendered while such workers are off duty within theduties and activities in relation to which benefits shall be paid and provided

A10456 Permits that more than forty-five percent of volunteer members of the Cold Spring Harbor fire district may reside outside the district

A10916 Authorizes fire commissioners of volunteer fire departments to receive compensation

A11147 Provides a real property tax exemption for members of voluntary fire companies and ambulance services in certain counties and municipalities, upon election

A11190 Provides for the issuance of distinctive plates for volunteer fire chiefs

[jack10562 414]

WOW!!!

It appears the Volunteer Fire Service has a very effective lobbying mechanism in place.

[TimesUp 148]

That seems like a lot of recognition.

[moggie6 54]

If this is what it takes to get someone to volunteer.....I don't want them working on me or my family. They are doing it for the wrong reasons.

They do have a strong lobbying mechanism.......too bad it's not geared toward the publics safety.

[Guest]

Well, maybe there is more appreciation for the fire service now. But also, alot of people unfortunately don't expect to do things for free. It seems like all the kids who were in high school with me do community service just for their college applications. So, while the spirit of volunteerism, doing something for absolutely nothing, may be waning, I still think the willingness to do 'volunteer' activities is still there. Life now is all about instant gratification, and this follows that trend.

[moggie6 54]

That is the truth!

[DaRock98 76]

I think it is dead to a lot of people, but there are still a FEW people around that volunteer for the right reasons.

[DMM8240 2]

I don't think its dead, but there are a lot of people out there trying to kill it.

[CTFF 65]

I wonder who pays for all these credits? If the government is willing to take in less money it has to be shifting that burden somewhere right?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Now I know why nothing ever gets done in ALBANY!

I wonder if you added them all up would it save money to actually pay firefighters?

[Danger 160]

The tax credits I'll give you. Some of those items are harmless and/or reasonable however.

[SgtGumby311 0]

Now I know why nothing ever gets done in ALBANY!

I wonder if you added them all up would it save money to actually pay firefighters?

You beat me to the punch!!

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Well, maybe there is more appreciation for the fire service now. But also, alot of people unfortunately don't expect to do things for free. It seems like all the kids who were in high school with me do community service just for their college applications. So, while the spirit of volunteerism, doing something for absolutely nothing, may be waning, I still think the willingness to do 'volunteer' activities is still there. Life now is all about instant gratification, and this follows that trend.

I know exactly what you are talking about. I saw the same exact thing happen last year.

[Guest MVFD334]

Def the attitude has changed in people from 30 years ago, but the times as of late are hard. The spirit is still there, just buried under a layer of crap. After a good call I can say that alotpeople are happy that they got to work together with other people who had nothing but helping out in mind.

[Guest feraldan]

A lot of what is listed is "feel good" legislation. Politicians frequently target or even champion causes that have broad appeal to secure re-election or gain support for their party. This is no-risk policy!

Even if its years from now, one of these guys or gals can say, "I was the key supporter of bill XYZ to help our volunteers in these desperate times! I care about the community! See? See?"

Its the same thing with nonsensical gun control. Sure, the statistics say that it doesn't make a difference and politicians like Carolyn McCarthy might not even know what they've proposed, but the sheeple can sit around and shiver with contentment knowing that someone is protecting them. That alone can secure many votes.

[firefighter36 52]

I'm willing to bet that FASNY is in some way involved in all of those pieces of legislation. They are a political machine in Albany, and like someone else said, too bad their interest isn't public safety.

[ex-commish 490]

I'm willing to bet that FASNY is in some way involved in all of those pieces of legislation. They are a political machine in Albany, and like someone else said, too bad their interest isn't public safety.

FASNY is no different than any other organization that lobbies greedy and self serving politicians to push it's agendas.

[firemoose827 324]

If this is what it takes to get someone to volunteer.....I don't want them working on me or my family. They are doing it for the wrong reasons.

They do have a strong lobbying mechanism.......too bad it's not geared toward the publics safety.

Ok, so what your saying is this....because volunteers accept incentives it makes them bad at what they do....but those of you that receive PAY and BENEFITS are OK? That doesnt make much sense.

I think the incentives are a great thing for the volunteers, it shows that the communities they serve appreciate them and are making sure that they and their families are taken care of in return if they should be injured or Killed. I was injured in the line of duty and got no pay or benefits for a year....My dept didnt help me, the county didnt help me, NO ONE helped me. I payed for lawyers to fight for my workers comp benefits and to get the medical coverage I was supposed to get in order to receive the surgery I needed. I feel that these incentives, although I agree that we dont need all of them, are a positive thing for the volunteer fire service.

Lets face it folks...to volunteer 20-30 years ago it was affordable and easier....Gas was cheaper, the training to be an interior firefighter was 39 hours, costs of living were cheaper...there wasnt as many extra things to attend like physicals and fit tests. The departments were more kind to their volunteers giving them uniforms to wear, T-shirts to proudly wear, pagers, turnouts, banquets (free), in my old department they had Clam Bakes and Family outings to picnics and fishing trips....today I need to PAY $150 for my Uniform, $10 per dept T-shirt, I have to BUY my own pager if I want one instead of getting one loaned to me, In my old dept I had to BUY my own turnouts or use sets from 1970 that I think Johny and Roy used....Its ridiculous today to be a volunteer. But I still do it, and I still train my but off, and Im still somewhat proud to be one.

Why is it, when incentives are discussed for volunteers, certain members of this site feel the need to try and take that away from us? Why are we not all working together to get better treatment for ALL of us across the board? It used to be that way also...Brotherhood was always there, not today. Its segregated brotherhood. This is just my opinions and in no way a bash against anyone. So please save the threatening PM's and public assaults.

[firemoose827 324]

I think it is dead to a lot of people, but there are still a FEW people around that volunteer for the right reasons.

I agree with that comment 100% brother, there are a few of us left, not too many, but we are out there and we keep getting the crap. Its a shame...

[Guest mediconpatrol]

I am not a political person so I cannot speak for all that legislation stuff but, I can speak about what I see....

Is the spirit of volunteerism dead? If it isn't it definately is dying...I remember when I started volunteering in EMS we would all hang out at the Corp waiting for the call....playing around, having a good time...even washing the rig was fun....We would go the park with the rig or meet the fire dept and we all worked as one..instead of trying to define "who is in charge of the scene"...On the overnight...we watched movies together and the old timers not only tolerated the young crowd but actually enjoyed them. There was a time when I saw when it was more about "what can I do for the patient" instead of "what can taking care of this patient do for me."

Now I see when a patient is brought into the hospital the burned out staff who is making considerable more money then the "volunteer" wonder why didn't we do something in the field to make there job easier...and even sometimes question why we brought a specific patient to the hospital in the first place.

as stated by other people.....now colleges require some volunteer time on applications....courts order community service for punishment......

In a society that has become very me, me, me....

I applaud those that remain truly the: BECAUSE i WANT TO HELP...

[gamewell45 258]

WOW!!!

It appears the Volunteer Fire Service has a very effective lobbying mechanism in place.

Yes, we do have a very effective lobbying mechanism in place and I also believe that the spirit of volunteerism is alive and well.

[ajsbear 11]

Several of those are the same just renumbered and reworded.

[firefighter36 52]

Ok, so what your saying is this....because volunteers accept incentives it makes them bad at what they do....but those of you that receive PAY and BENEFITS are OK? That doesnt make much sense.

I think the incentives are a great thing for the volunteers, it shows that the communities they serve appreciate them and are making sure that they and their families are taken care of in return if they should be injured or Killed. I was injured in the line of duty and got no pay or benefits for a year....My dept didnt help me, the county didnt help me, NO ONE helped me. I payed for lawyers to fight for my workers comp benefits and to get the medical coverage I was supposed to get in order to receive the surgery I needed. I feel that these incentives, although I agree that we dont need all of them, are a positive thing for the volunteer fire service.

Lets face it folks...to volunteer 20-30 years ago it was affordable and easier....Gas was cheaper, the training to be an interior firefighter was 39 hours, costs of living were cheaper...there wasnt as many extra things to attend like physicals and fit tests. The departments were more kind to their volunteers giving them uniforms to wear, T-shirts to proudly wear, pagers, turnouts, banquets (free), in my old department they had Clam Bakes and Family outings to picnics and fishing trips....today I need to PAY $150 for my Uniform, $10 per dept T-shirt, I have to BUY my own pager if I want one instead of getting one loaned to me, In my old dept I had to BUY my own turnouts or use sets from 1970 that I think Johny and Roy used....Its ridiculous today to be a volunteer. But I still do it, and I still train my but off, and Im still somewhat proud to be one.

Why is it, when incentives are discussed for volunteers, certain members of this site feel the need to try and take that away from us? Why are we not all working together to get better treatment for ALL of us across the board? It used to be that way also...Brotherhood was always there, not today. Its segregated brotherhood. This is just my opinions and in no way a bash against anyone. So please save the threatening PM's and public assaults.

Moose, good points. It is inexcusable for departments not to supply their volunteers with the essentials; Pagers, Turnouts, Uniforms, Training, Physicals, and the like. A banquet and a family outing are also acceptable, and I don't view any of those as "compensation" (i.e. salary, benefits, etc.) Volunteers are given proper status as public employees in NY, and if you are injured, you are covered. This is appropriate as well. If your department does not supply you with the tools to do the job, how can they expect you to do your job?

I am a career firefighter, and as such, I am compensated for my time, and given medical, retirement, etc. Just as most other employees in other career fields receive. The fire department is my employer, and firefighting is my job. Although I hate to look at being a firefighter as "Just going to work" (it is WAY more than that to all of us) for the purposes of this discussion I have to. A lot of us don't get the incentives FASNY is looking to get passed, nor do we expect them.

We all sit here and harp on training, brotherhood, etc. But the simple truth as I see it is that FASNY does everything possible to keep training standards low, and touts "saving tax dollars wasted on career FD salaries." I am convinced that a great deal of the rift between the career/volunteer service come from FASNY. How do I know this? I went to Albany to lobby for firefighter safety and 90% of the politicians I spoke with didn't know that there were Career FDs other than FDNY in New York, and they showed us all of the propaganda that FASNY supplied them with.

I have no problem with a few tax breaks to help cover the costs of volunteering. It shows appreciation for the service, and to be honest, with the costs of living increasing like they are, active volunteers deserve it. My problem is that they are made TOO ACCESSIBLE! It is easy to get a LOSAP pension for just making meetings and drills, and going on Minimal Calls. Same goes for the tax credits. I view that as an insult to the volunteer brothers and sisters out their who bust their backsides doing the real work. Does someone who shows up for the social stuff really deserve to ride your coat tails to the same financial benefits? I sure don't think so.

Just my .02, but there are few politicians who are not given the tools to do their service to the public. And if we lost 100 politicians or CEOs a year to LODDs, do you think they would get the help they needed? Funny how the same thing doesn't happen to the fire service.

Stay safe out there.

[x134 46]

I think that there are several reasons for the volunteer ranks not being what they use to be. Parents working two jobs to keep up , not having enough time to volunteer in addition not having enough family time. Not having the time to go to classes that are made mandatory by the fire department. Or some people just don't care enough and think someone else will do it.

[Future Fireman 4]

Or some people just don't care enough and think someone else will do it.

That seems to be the most probable reason.

Mike

[gamewell45 258]

If this is what it takes to get someone to volunteer.....I don't want them working on me or my family.

Hopefully it never happens, but somehow I think that if you or I are lying on the street in full cardiac arrest, we are not going to have much say in who works on us.

Edited July 9, 2008 by gamewell45

[Guest EFFP411]

You know, every time I look at threads like this, i always wonder how long its going to take before it turns to crap, and people start fighting. It happens even faster when i look and see certain people placing "loaded comments" in their statements, looking to get a rise out of someone. When I think about this topic, it makes me take a step back and look at the situation. People work 2 or more jobs, juggle families on a piss poor economy, and some of them still find time to volunteer. It may not be alot, but they are still there and still enjoy themselves while doing it. Alot of departments have alot of memebrs, but only a handful of them are really active. Some do what they can, and the rest go to meetings, start fights, and show for the free food. I think We need to start weeding out the dead weight, and try to appeal to those who will do some real good for us. Alot of places sooner or later will have to start looking into paid staffing, and if thats what needs to be done, then I applaud them for admitting they need help, and looked for a way to fix the problem instead of hiding it. I also applaud those Vollie departments who are trying to find alternative ways of fixing their response and staffing problems, and keeping their department together and performing their duties to protect their residents. Alot of townships can't afford career staffing, and if they can, maybe it would be one or two guys. Now tell me honestly, what good is one or 2 career guys with a truck, and no manpower to back them up??? For those who do know me, you all know thats not a crack on paid guys, because my mom's boyfriend is one of them. So i don't want to hear any of the coinciding crap about the statement. We will always need volunteers, so i think it's high time to start finding ways to bring back the love and strength of volunteerism, without Politicians waving BS tax credits at us???? The point is the spirit is NOT DEAD, its just taken a good beating and i think it needs time to recover.........

Ok, now i'm really done. No more rants from me today.....

Edited July 9, 2008 by EFFP411

[Goose 188]

Dead and burried. Some people just don't want to admit it. Albany needs to stop wasting it's time giving out tax credits, gas credits and special plates and start opening the door for consolidation.

[Guest EFFP411]

Dead and burried. Some people just don't want to admit it. Albany needs to stop wasting it's time giving out tax credits, gas credits and special plates and start opening the door for consolidation.

Thats all well and good in places that have 4 or more departments in a 5 square mile area, like certain little areas in westchester. But how the heck would you "consolidate" in places like dutchess county, where the average town is 40+ square miles? I do agree albany needs to stop wasting its time with tax credits, and other crap, and put it to good use, like cutting the rediculous tax on gas.... Its an attitude like yours that makes me sick to my stomach!

Edited July 9, 2008 by EFFP411

[DaRock98 76]

Thats all well and good in places that have 4 or more departments in a 5 square mile area, like certain little areas in westchester. But how the heck would you "consolidate" in places like dutchess county, where the average town is 40+ square miles? I do agree albany needs to stop wasting its time with tax credits, and other crap, and put it to good use, like cutting the rediculous tax on gas.... Its an attitude like yours that makes me sick to my stomach!

Agreed!