Volunteer Fuel Reimbursement Act

[RocklandFires 44]

Rockland County, NY - Assemblyman Introduces Legislation To Assist Volunteer Emergency Responders With Rising Fuel Costs

Rockland County, NY - Assemblyman Ken Zebrowski (D-New City) recently introduced the “Volunteer Fuel Reimbursement Act”, which would assist volunteer emergency workers with the rising fuel costs. It provides an income tax credit for fuel costs incurred while responding to emergencies. In the past year, New Yorkers have experienced a dramatic increase in the cost of motor fuel and, as a result, this now has an adverse effect on our volunteer emergency services throughout the state.

“Volunteer emergency workers respond to emergencies with their own cars and, as fuel costs rise, they are forced to dig deeper into their own pockets to pay for fuel costs. This income tax credit would provide some relief for the growing financial burden associated with driving to and from an emergency”, said Assemblyman Ken Zebrowski.

The Volunteer Fuel Reimbursement Act would provide a $5 income tax credit for each “call” volunteers go on in response to an emergency. The income tax credit will be reimbursed up to $500 or 100 calls, annually. The “chief” of each department would be responsible for certifying the amount of calls for each member of the Department.

“Our volunteers are already sacrificing their time and energy for the benefit of the community. Now, as the cost of fuel exceeds $4 a gallon, their service is becoming cost prohibitive. Hopefully, this measure will cover most, if not all, of the increased cost associated with traveling to and from emergency calls”, concluded Assemblyman Zebrowski.

Our Chief got a letter at our firehouse today and it was brought up at our monthly meeting last night. Assemblyman Zebrowski is requesting a letter of support from our organizations and from us personally to help push the act along. I am not sure if this is being mailed to departments outside of Rockland, where Assemblyman Zebrowski serves, but I will fax you a copy if you would like to review the information. A $500 income tax credit is better then nothing !

[Guest MVFD334]

to bad that there are gonna be people on this board that dont think volunteer services deserve this.. because they should do it for "free".

[IzzyEng4 427]

I think it would be a good idea since many departments have their firefighters travel a great distance to the firehouse or to the scene. On the other side though, I see a problem with abuse of it if it is not properly regulated.

[Jason S 68]

to go from one end of my district to the other, and then back home, i use atleast a gallon of gas. now not every call is at the 2 farthest points, but i think everyone gets the idea. Millbrook FD in Dutchess COunty covers 62 square miles. $500 would definatley be a start, since i went on 228 calls last year, combined with drills and training, i definately used over $500 forth of fuel.

HOPE IT PASSES!

[ajsbear 11]

I've heard of several departments that give its members gas cards for a percentage of runs each month. How many departments out there do that?

[Beekman 5]

I also know a few people who really cut down on their responses because of rising gas cost. The Districts/Departments can help by making good use of staff vehicles for carpooling to calls, training and parades. It's also a good way for Chiefs and Officers to try and get their folks qualified on the apparatus thereby using District/Department fuel and getting the equipment off the floor. A win win

[helicopper 1,050]

If fuel prices and consumption are such an issue, then agencies should provide fuel to their members. A "tax credit" is really only a tax on other people (non-volunteers) because the Government is receiving less from the volunteers receiving the "credit".

I'm all for making our lives easier but is this really a solution or is it just political spin???

[GAW6 66]

If fuel prices and consumption are such an issue, then agencies should provide fuel to their members. A "tax credit" is really only a tax on other people (non-volunteers) because the Government is receiving less from the volunteers receiving the "credit".

In order to provide fuel for members, then Fire District budgets would have to be increased, which increases the $ to taxpayers. I guess I am not seeing your point.

[JFLYNN 681]

I can't help myself- I'm going to respond to this...I volunteer for several different charities and use my car and gas in this volunteer work...does anyone think NYS should give me a tax credit for this? I don't, nor do I think volunteer Firefighters should receive it. I might also point out that the large majority of NYS residents are protected by career Firefighters so why should they be forced to subsidize residents of districts who choose to accept being protected by a volunteer Fire Department?

Pensions, tax credits, vacations, free community pool memberships, free movies,discounts on all kinds of stuff, firehouse gyms and party rooms, and I'm sure a whole bunch of other stuff I'm missing...yikes, how can someone who accepts all this call themselves a volunteer?? I don't get it...

And yes, I'm sure many of you will now point out the many benefits and perks of being a career Firefighter, but that's of course irrelevant to what I have pointed out above since a career Firefighter does not claim to do it for free- it's our job, and we proudly do it well, and attempt to receive as much compensation for doing it as is legally and ethically possible, no apologies for that and no false claims that we are providing a valuable service for free...

And, oh yeah, qtip...

[Remember585 815]

I can't help myself- I'm going to respond to this...I volunteer for several different charities and use my car and gas in this volunteer work...does anyone think NYS should give me a tax credit for this? I don't, nor do I think volunteer Firefighters should receive it. I might also point out that the large majority of NYS residents are protected by career Firefighters so why should they be forced to subsidize residents of districts who choose to accept being protected by a volunteer Fire Department?

Pensions, tax credits, vacations, free community pool memberships, free movies,discounts on all kinds of stuff, firehouse gyms and party rooms, and I'm sure a whole bunch of other stuff I'm missing...yikes, how can someone who accepts all this call themselves a volunteer?? I don't get it...

And yes, I'm sure many of you will now point out the many benefits and perks of being a career Firefighter, but that's of course irrelevant to what I have pointed out above since a career Firefighter does not claim to do it for free- it's our job, and we proudly do it well, and attempt to receive as much compensation for doing it as is legally and ethically possible, no apologies for that and no false claims that we are providing a valuable service for free...

And, oh yeah, qtip...

False claims that we are providing a valuable service for free? Please enlighten me.

I think it is a nice notion to suggest this tax credit, and as a volunteer I think that we may be getting a little more then we should. How many of us signed up to do this in the first place expecting nothing in return? As a Chief I think too many members now are focused on their "points" and not on the reason we are here. I don't think a function goes by where I don't hear "where's the sheet?" Please. Obviously there's enough people out there who come around often enough that they don't have to sweat every single attendance point. It's those that come around for the wrong reasons that are driving those that are there for the right ones away! If you take out your department's roster, and look at who your best FIREFIGHTERS are - I bet they're the ones you hear the least from when it comes to "where's my points!"

[jack10562 414]

I have to agree with Chief Flynn. No reason for any state residents covered by career emergency services agencies should have to contribute anything. They already pay for those services through their local taxes, and it would be unfair to expect them to subsidize taxes affecting a select pool of others.

[abaduck 123]

Pensions, tax credits, vacations, free community pool memberships, free movies,discounts on all kinds of stuff, firehouse gyms and party rooms, and I'm sure a whole bunch of other stuff I'm missing...yikes, how can someone who accepts all this call themselves a volunteer?? I don't get it...

Whoa there - we get free access to the pool and... that's about it. Free movies? Who gets free movies? And what discounts are you talking about? You think not turning up to something you volunteer to do, for a week or so, constitutes a 'vacation'?

On this issue I can see both sides - I'm kinda like one of those cartoon characters with an angel on one shoulder, a devil on the other:

Yes, it would be a nice form of recognition for the work we do, and more to the point... I give all this time freely, why should I be out of pocket to do it too? I don't expect any recompense but I don't see why I should effectively pay to do it... I don't have to pay for my turnouts, why should I pay for my gas? They're both needed to do the job. I'll do the job for nothing if you give me what I need to do it.

Meanwhile, on the other shoulder...

Why on earth should I get a gas credit for something I do, have done, and will continue to do, without a gas credit? I don't need the money, I sure as hell don't burn $5 of gas on every call Or any call, come to that. Let's face it, we love it (the fire service), we love it enough to do it for nothing but the satisfaction of serving the community, why should we expect NOT to have to pay our own gas?

I think the bottom line is, why do we volunteer? Look in your heart and answer that question honestly and you'll find the answer to whether or not this gas credit is a good idea. Me? I'm with JFLYNN. How about that - a vollie agreeing with a career guy

Mike

Edited July 8, 2008 by abaduck

[gamewell45 258]

to bad that there are gonna be people on this board that dont think volunteer services deserve this.. because they should do it for "free".

Thats very true; fortunatley there are only maybe a dozen or so people in here that have that mentality and for the most part they are irrelevent.

Edited July 8, 2008 by gamewell45

[Guest emtb23]

Come to think of it, all of those miles in the volunteer vehicles must drive up service costs. Why not give a tax credit for oil changes? And actually, I value my time. How about somebody gives me a tax credit for that too.

[JFLYNN 681]

Thats very true; fortunatley there are only maybe a dozen or so people in here that have that mentality and for the most part they are irrelevent.

Fortunately for us irrelevant dozen or so people we are able to have respectful disagreement with others, apparently unlike yourself.

We are also able to maintain a sense of humor about these matters, and qtip.

If you would like, one of us "dozen or so" would be glad to spellcheck any petitions or letters of support you might be drafting.

[Goose 188]

Too many carrots are being thrown at volunteers these days. Just because i do this for a living doesn't necessarily mean I'm well off and just because someone volunteers doesn't mean they are struggling to fill their gas tank.

[ajsbear 11]

Where's the free vacations, free community pool memberships (mine cost me $500), free movies and other discounts. What I asked in my earlier post is if any fire district is buying or giving gas cards to members. I didn't ask about the state.

I know both sides of the fence chief, here are still more volunteer departments and volunteers than career ff's in NYS. Let's not get into the career vs volly issue.

[gamewell45 258]

Fortunately for us irrelevant dozen or so people we are able to have respectful disagreement with others, apparently unlike yourself.

We are also able to maintain a sense of humor about these matters, and qtip.

If you would like, one of us "dozen or so" would be glad to spellcheck any petitions or letters of support you might be drafting.

I'll be happy to take you up on that.

[helicopper 1,050]

In order to provide fuel for members, then Fire District budgets would have to be increased, which increases the $ to taxpayers. I guess I am not seeing your point.

Right! Then the cost is readily apparent to all those involved and the district subsidizes the district's members with taxes from district taxpayers. I'm not going to support my subsidizing the responses of volunteers in a district on Long Island or in the Adironacks with my taxes from Putnam County. Nor are the taxpayers in NYC, Yonkers, Mt. Vernon, New Rochelle, White Plains, Albany, Syracuse, Buffalo, Rochester, etc who don't have volunteers in their communities... And "tax credits" are inevitably political-speak for tax increases or cuts in services elsewhere - aka a shell game. If the revenue was expected but is now being "credited" back to volunteers a budget shortfall will occur. Think of the scope of that - if there are 250,000 volunteers (an estimate only!) in the state who receive this benefit the cost of this "credit" is a whopping 125 MILLION dollars - in a state that is already behind the budget eight ball!

If a fire department wants to support its members by providing them with fuel, by all means let them do it - that doesn't mean that every department has to and they can choose whatever means they find equitable and ethical to accomplish it. This also lets the taxpayers know what they are actually paying for their services and the department can establishment benchmarks for eligibility.

The legislation is also flawed because a member who spends $100 on fuel will receive a $500 tax credit and a member who spends $1000 will receive the same $500. There are better ways to approach this problem if a problem truly exists.

False claims that we are providing a valuable service for free? Please enlighten me.

I think it is a nice notion to suggest this tax credit, and as a volunteer I think that we may be getting a little more then we should. How many of us signed up to do this in the first place expecting nothing in return? As a Chief I think too many members now are focused on their "points" and not on the reason we are here. I don't think a function goes by where I don't hear "where's the sheet?" Please. Obviously there's enough people out there who come around often enough that they don't have to sweat every single attendance point. It's those that come around for the wrong reasons that are driving those that are there for the right ones away! If you take out your department's roster, and look at who your best FIREFIGHTERS are - I bet they're the ones you hear the least from when it comes to "where's my points!"

An argument can be made that when you start receiving compensation - in the form of tax credits, LOSAP, fuel discounts, gym memberships, or any of the other "perks" discussed - you're no longer providing a volunteer service. Don't kill the messenger either! I'm not saying that I agree but I do understand the argument.

As you yourself said more and more members show up focused on their "points" or on other aspects of the service besides doing the job so there are people out there who don't have the same volunteer spirit that used to be the norm. Again, highlighting your point, this doesn't reward the "best firefighter" either. It can and will be demoralizing to see the point collector receiving the same benefit as the hard working, truly dedicated volunteer!

I have to agree with Chief Flynn. No reason for any state residents covered by career emergency services agencies should have to contribute anything. They already pay for those services through their local taxes, and it would be unfair to expect them to subsidize taxes affecting a select pool of others.

My point exactly!

Come to think of it, all of those miles in the volunteer vehicles must drive up service costs. Why not give a tax credit for oil changes? And actually, I value my time. How about somebody gives me a tax credit for that too.

Another great point! Where do we stop? If there are volunteers who are genuinely concerned with volunteering they'll do one of two things - continue volunteering without the proposed tax credit. Or they'll approach the agency and seek an alternative (such as the use of a department vehicle during their duty time). Are there really volunteers who are packing it in because of gas prices?

Why don't we provide gas to all the cops and firefighters in NYC who are struggling to make ends meet and in some cases qualify for food stamps so they can get to and from work? Don't we all want NYC to be safe so we can visit?

Nobody's complaining about the fuel necessary to get to a parade either! Will that be an eligible event to receive this tax credit? Why?

As for the vacations, pool memberships, etc. we all know that there are districts around the state who have rewarded their members with these and other benefits. The Comptrollers Office and several media outlets have reported on the pereceived impropriety of some volunteer organizations and their spending practices.

Finally, this has been a generally productive discussion about the issue. Let's take the Chief's advice and quit taking it personally or by responding with snipes at each other. This issue affects us all and we are all entitled to our opinions! Agree to disagree if you must but DO NOT make this discussion counterproductive if you want it to stay open!

[JFLYNN 681]

Thanks Chris and you other guys who received my comments in the vain in which they were intended. I'm not at all surprised by others who make these type things a personal issue, and then, instead of defending their position, attack an individual or group.

As I've said before, I am not anti-volunteer. I have many friends and acquaintances who are volunteer Firefighters. What I am is anti-hypocrisy. I am a taxpayer in NYS and a proud member of the fire service and I will always call a spade a spade.

So, no one has "made" this a career vs. volly issue. Some things just are, like when volunteer firefighter groups lobby against safe staffing and training standards which are being proposed for career firefighters, or when legislation like this gas credit is proposed which will only benefit volunteer firefighters and will hurt career firefighters by taking a lot of money out of the state tax coffers, thus increasing our taxes and / or diminishing support provided to our departments / communities.

Or the many other programs and incentives which cost NYS money but benefit only volunteer firefighters. I don't like that these things happen, and I will speak out to change them, but that doesn't mean that I dislike or disrespect someone just because he or she is a member of a volunteer fire department.

All of this is why I pro-actively sign most of my posts, "qtip"...

P.S. For the record, Ladd12erff, I have learned quite a bit about you from former co-workers and, based on your posts, I haven't been a bit surprised at what I have learned...

[helicopper 1,050]

to bad that there are gonna be people on this board that dont think volunteer services deserve this.. because they should do it for "free".

By definition if you are a volunteer you are doing it for free! If you do it for compensation it's just a job!

vol·un·teer [vol-uhn-teer]

–noun

1. a person who voluntarily offers himself or herself for a service or undertaking.

2. a person who performs a service willingly and without pay.

3. Military. a person who enters the service voluntarily rather than through conscription or draft, esp. for special or temporary service rather than as a member of the regular or permanent army.

4. Law. a. a person whose actions are not founded on any legal obligation so to act.

b. a person who intrudes into a matter that does not concern him or her, as a person who pays the debt of another where he or she is neither legally nor morally bound to do so and has no interest to protect in making the payment.

5. Agriculture. a volunteer plant.

6. (initial capital letter) a native or inhabitant of Tennessee (used as a nickname).

–adjective 7. of, pertaining to, or being a volunteer or volunteers: a volunteer fireman.

8. Agriculture. growing without being seeded, planted, or cultivated by a person; springing up spontaneously.

–verb (used without object) 9. to offer oneself for some service or undertaking.

10. to enter service or enlist as a volunteer.

–verb (used with object) 11. to offer (oneself or one's services) for some undertaking or purpose.

12. to give, bestow, or perform voluntarily: to volunteer a song.

13. to say, tell, or communicate voluntarily: to volunteer an explanation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1590–1600; < F volontaire < L voluntārius voluntary, with -eer for F -aire]

[ex-commish 490]

Nobody's complaining about the fuel necessary to get to a parade either! Will that be an eligible event to receive this tax credit? Why?

Good point Chris. I think they are going too far with perks but than again I began in an era where you got nothing and a simple thank you was enough. I can understand the frustration with rising gas prices. I just filled my tank today and cursed as I watched the pump but I don't think it is fair to keep asking those who also pay high gas prices and high taxes to shell out more. Again, we choose to volunteer. If volunteering is really putting a financial burden on you than maybe it is time to make some decisions.

[JFLYNN 681]

MY DEEPEST APOLOGIES TO LADD12ERFF. I MISINTERPRETED A POST HE MADE ON HERE AND I ALSO ASSUMED INCORRECTLY THAT HE WAS SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I SPOKE ABOUT KNOWING HIM FROM HIS FORMER COWORKERS AND ABOUT HIS PREVIOUS POSTS...HE IS NOT WHO I THOUGHT HE WAS AND I SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE CAREFUL BEFORE MAKING MY POST.

AGAIN, MY APOLOGIES. NO EXCUSES, JUST CARELESSNESS ON MY PART.

[TimesUp 148]

to bad that there are gonna be people on this board that dont think volunteer services deserve this.. because they should do it for "free".

You might deserve it, you might not. But why should I have to pay for your gas. You don't provide any services for me.

I pay taxes for fire protection already. Maybe the citizens where you volunteer should flip the bill for your gas. Sounds like a

bad idea to have people taxed for services they don't receive.

[yfd910 8]

Do volunteers ever spend any time at their firehouses anymore, instead of responding from home?

Just curious....I would think that might save some gas to use the department's rig rather than your own car.

To get back on subject, Eastchester Fire District (Combo Dept.) used to give, I believe, a $50 gas card

(they had an account at a local gas station) to the Volunteer who responded to the most runs in a month.

They haven't done this in quite some time now, over 5 years.

The voters of Eastchester also defeated a pension reward program back in the early 90's...

Basically, if you choose to volunteer, do it for free........or let your own department cover your rewards.

There's no reason the State should sponsor or pay for these rewards.

(...and I believe Chief Flynn, when he mentioned "vacations", did not mean not showing up to volunteer for a week,

but the lavish get-away's to the Caribbean and such that some L.I. departments have come under fire for......)

Edited July 9, 2008 by yfd910

[INIT915 1,119]

Have any Career FD's put a limit on non-essential driving?

[Bnechis 3,961]

If fuel prices and consumption are such an issue, then agencies should provide fuel to their members. A "tax credit" is really only a tax on other people (non-volunteers) because the Government is receiving less from the volunteers receiving the "credit".

I'm all for making our lives easier but is this really a solution or is it just political spin???

I agree. I pay for a career fire dept. those communities with volunteer depts can provide fuel to members if they want to support them. Why should my state tax dollars be used to support VFD's when I already pay for fire protection?

Is it still allowable to write off the cost of volunteering? It was in the early 1980's. If it is this is truly political spin. Also this is being proposed by a politician from a 100% volunteer county. He would love to see more money coming from other counties to support his.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I don't have to pay for my turnouts, why should I pay for my gas? They're both needed to do the job.

The tax payers of mamaroneck village are required by law to pay for your turnouts...since you are protecting them. This legislation would require the citizens of NYC, Yonkers, Buffalo and Albany etc. to pay for your gas.

If fuel is needed to maintain the level of protection, then the local community should pay for it.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I know both sides of the fence chief, here are still more volunteer departments and volunteers than career ff's in NYS. Let's not get into the career vs volly issue.

Yes there are more volunteers and VFD's. The 10 Largest career depts in NYS protect 55% of the population. There are another 90 career and combo depts.

And you're right this is not about career or volunteer, its about who should pay for fire protection.

[helicopper 1,050]

Just out of curiosity, would this be in addition to the other proposed legislation that would give volunteers a $1200 tax credit as a recruitment and retention tool? Wouldn't that be construed as double-dipping?

Also, has the proposed fuel reimbursement act been officially drafted or is he just testing the waters?

BILL NO A01784

SAME AS Same as S 3626

SPONSOR Crouch

COSPNSR Kolb, Hawley, Molinaro, Zebrowski K

MLTSPNSR Bacalles, Barclay, Burling, Cole, Duprey, Finch, Giglio, Oaks, Raia,

Townsend

Amd S606, Tax L

Gives state income tax credit to volunteer firefighters and members of a

volunteer ambulance corps in good standing up to $1200; must be in good

standing for a minimum of five years and maintain continued eligibility.

You want to really impress me Assemblyman Zebrowski , give us ALL a break and reduce/repeal the State fuel taxes for a while!!!