Aston, PA. House Fire

[Guest]

Here are a few pictures I took at an occupied house fire in Aston, PA. (Delaware County).

[TL2L31 8]

What pictures!

[Guest]

Nice apparatus, er, mail truck placement

[Scottyk107 9]

awesome pictures! The house was occupied!? how did they not notice? Its blowing out the 1,2, and 3 sides and looks like it was going a good while

[x129K 1,393]

GREAT PICS - STRONG, STRONG WORK!!!!!

The first pic is great - very subtle - but the more you look at it, the more you see and realize....VERY nice!

[x129K 1,393]

Oh.............AND POST MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[oilflame 0]

hahaha looks like the mail man was first due

[Guest]

I'll add a few more pictures. Don't know how to add more than 2 at a time. and yes the house was occupied by an adult male and two small children. Adult stated to me fire started in living room. First engine ( all volunteer) arrived 11 minutes after fire siren on firehouse sounded.

[Guest]

Two more

[x129K 1,393]

Good God Man! Keep 'em coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

Looks like they have it out! Right???? Look at the next two...can you guess where all the fire went next???

[Guest]

Oops, pushed it right thru the entire house.......

[JM15 386]

Awesome pics

[vodoly 535]

nice pic's

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Yeah the pictures are great! How about the tactics, can we generate some meaningful discussion on the operation? Was this a good approach, bad approach or what. Lets all learn from the brothers contributions, isnt that what this site is all about?

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Very very educational pics here. Lets see if this can continue as a great learning story here!!

[x129K 1,393]

I see zero truck company work.

[Future Fireman 4]

Hmm....

Here's what I see that could of been improved.

1. I see jacks extended, but no aerial over the building. Not even a ground ladder thrown. Even with the ground ladder compartment door OPEN! Where's the truckie's at? Where's the vent hole that would've STOPPED that fire from extending? So far posted, nowhere in the pics is a vent hole shown.

2. Reports of OCCUPIED house fire, it appears very little entry was made, and then pulled out for a defensive attack. What happens if the occupants were on the 2nd floor? Multi-casualty fire? The only way this attack could be justified is if AND ONLY IF, the home's occupants are found to be out of the home upon arrival, then it's not very smart to go in with that much flame showin' until a grasp on it could be reached (see below).

3. Improper attack. Those exterior lines are not putting water on that fire. It appears to be an improperly placed DIRECT attack. A NARROW fog could've knocked down some of those window flames. After that, they could've done an EXTERIOR INDIRECT attack to slow the fire until they streched a hoseline to the inside and k/d the seat of the flames.

4. WHOOPS, missed this earlier: A/C unit bieng poured with smoke and fire. Exterior BLUE attack line performing a indirect attack. on the "B" side is close to right under it. If it goes, it'll roll over and land on top of the FF on the nozzle.

5. Missed this earlier too: With fire in the back on the C side, it appears the blue attack line on the B side is fighting both sides of that. The FF on the nozzle should've knocked down those flames first and then flanked the fire on the C side instead of going back to the B side.

If I missed anything, let me know.

Mike

Edited July 6, 2008 by Future Fireman

[RPM3311 3]

The reason they went to exterior attack at this fire was due to the fact that the fire was being fed by propane. As some of you know Delaware County has had some tragic event happen at fires in the past year to year and a half, and with deteriorating conditions they didnt want to risk any lives when it would have been a total loss anyway. I suggest you look at Green Ridge Fire Co.'s website it has some pictures of different angels and some video of the fire. Green Ridge Fire Company

[jcoppola 52]

Those are some absolutely fantastic pictures. The first problem as was indicated and as I see it, response time was a big issue. It seems that before any FD units were on scene, they had a quick moving working fire on the first floor of a 2.5 story frame. Based on the amount of good ventilation thanks to the fire, the first line going through the door should have been a smooth-bore 2.5" hoseline. MAJOR fire could have been knocked down quickly and any victims on the fire floor are not viable. Truck work above the fire needed to be done, probably from a ladder to a second story window due to the fire involvement on the first floor. Search would be tough but the power of the leading line below would have made conditions better, combined with good horizontal venting by the truckmen. A second line to the floor above would have also been a good idea, if the first line protected the stairs with thier high-caliber stream. That may have prevented the vertical extension. I cannot see immediate need for a venthole if the venting and backup line did their jobs, as was apparently not the case. You can also tell that the initial attack did not do squat because heavy fire began in a previously uninvolved part of the building (A-side right front). All that indirect crap should be left for the textbooks. They needed to get in there with high caliber streams to do the job. That is a very large volume of fire though, but not too much for a solid bore duece and a half through the front door then advanced inward.

Other observations:

• deck gun on the ground with no line to it...what was that for?
• No ladders to be found anywhere and no attempt to get to the floor above.

Again, great pictures for discussion. Love it.

[jcoppola 52]

Ok, propane fed changes the whole game. I watched the utube videos and I realize they had a good reason to go defensive. Large caliber streams need to be put into service early though, all the more. Good job by the IC...

Joe C.

[Dondestro 9]

Go Ugly early!!!!! set up the 2.5 and the monitors and go to town with a good amount of water....was the propane a 100gal tank ...was there a way to kill it? any more details?!?!

[jack10562 414]

It looks like a natural gas service to this building, the gas meter is outside on the front left. But even if it was propane here, anyone could have operated the shutoff valve below the meter since there was no involvement at that exposure.

[on the job 68]

Yeah the pictures are great! How about the tactics, can we generate some meaningful discussion on the operation? Was this a good approach, bad approach or what. Lets all learn from the brothers contributions, isnt that what this site is all about?

Yeah, yeah, yeah...the pictures are good shots, and thanks for sharing them with us 372SFRD.There seems to be members out there to get a little excided over a couple fire photos.

Paul J Debartolo "hits on the head" on everything he said, to learn from the educational pictures ,from the tactics to the operations to the approach on a good working fire photos.

Also its funny how after Paul J Debartolo puts his post up the "Monday morning quarter backs " start coming out, and by looking at a couple photos they have all the answers,.....from two states away !!! ????

[TR54 239]

Link to more photos from this house fire.

http://www.greenridge63.com/

A++ on PPE , good photos to learn from. We very easliy could see a guy in a T-Shirt venting windows.

Thanks for posting ! !

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

After watching the 2 videos and looking at all the pics, and knowing what we know about a gas or propane situation, was this fire handled properly from a tactics stand point. This is a great learning tool that can make us all better at what we do, it is in no way an opportunity to bash others. In my opinion they did okay. The first line went in the front door where it belonged and was probably knocking down a good amount of fire. Although it looks like there was a great deal of fire on that first floor, it was vented already, which makes life considerably easier. I think they could have given the offensive attack a little more time, 2 1/2 maybe with that volume of fire. Possible V.E.S. of upper floors with the aerial or portable ladders, those rooms have to be searched regardless of what we hear on the fireground and the 2nd floor was not that bad early on. Once it went defensive the fire did what its supposed to do. The lines pushed it through the house and it burned up through the roof. In no way am I bashing these depts, just voicing my opinion based on my experience. Lets keep this a positive and educational post.

[Pudge3311 5]

http://www.firegroundaudio.com/audio/Delco...55_Bancroft.mp3

Fireground audio.

1st appauratus on scene at 12:43, 7 minutes after dispatch.

1st line was a 2 1/2 through the front door, all occupants were accounted for outside building.

Anyone want anymore info, feel free to PM me.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Pudge3311

[Future Fireman 4]

Ok, now the fire also involves propane and/or flammable Natural Gas. A couple other things to point out:

1. I don't know if down there they carry utility shut off devices, but up here they do (at least where I buff anyway [not to be confused with where I'm an explorer at]). IF they had the tools, they could've shut off the flow of gas into the house. This would've made the fire easier to knock down and the property could've had a few items, not alot, but isn't our goal PROPERTY CONSERVATION done in a safe manner? The kids maybe could've had their teddy bear to hold while looking at their totaled house.

2. Where is the propane tank at? Is it a small, grill type tank, or is it a much larger tank resembling the size of an oil tank? If it's a grill tank, extinguish the fire around it and shut the valve on it, but if you do, at least put a fog above your heads to keep the propane in the air from igniting. If it's like an oil tank, look at the building and determine the possible locations of a shutoff valve. If it's like a natural gas meter, see #1.

Mike

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Pudge, are you sure that first line at the front door is a 2 1/2" line, take another look. Only one guy operating the nozzle, not very easy with 2 1/2, also look at the blue line on the 2 side of the bldg and note the size differences. I could be wrong but that white line looks like its alot smaller.

[Future Fireman 4]

Pudge, are you sure that first line at the front door is a 2 1/2" line, take another look. Only one guy operating the nozzle, not very easy with 2 1/2, also look at the blue line on the 2 side of the bldg and note the size differences. I could be wrong but that white line looks like its alot smaller.

The nozzle stream doesn't look like a smoothbore either. It appears to be a narrow fog.

Mike