Baltimore Modifies Emergency Response

[Guest MVFD334]

Cameras in the cabs.. This will now make irresponsible emergency drivers think twice about driving unsafely. At the same time if you have a car in front of you not yielding to your lights and sirens, their tags will be recorded and the police can proceed with V&T summons. Many benefits to this, most important if an accident does happen the camera dosent lie on who's at fault.

[Remember585 815]

I should of clarified - we aren't using the Code 1 and Code 2 stuff anymore, it's all "Emergency" or "Non-Emergency" responses. I like to shortcut it when I type, and it's an old habit to kill.

[ny10570 745]

About 2 years ago we looked at are statistics for AFA and found that over 25 years we did about 19,000 alarms less than 10 were working fires (I dont remember the number that were minor fires...like food on the stove) the extra 2 minutes on the minor ones would have made very little difference.

During the same time we discovered more than 10 working fires by driving up the street (coming back from calls, out doing BI, training, food shopping, etc.) and noticing the flames shooting out of a window......

Thats a great find. I wonder how many other communities this holds true with.

[moggie6 54]

I don't like this. I dislike having to Code 1 my response. I dislike other fire depts waving their response polices around like its the best thing since lifes bread. When it comes to response guidelines I think some common sense is needed on the local level.

An old FD Captain once told me an alarm is an alarm till we get there and see what it is. Thats why you put your gear on, thats why we get out of the rig ready to work. Even though we know statistically it's going to be a false alarm. I'm afraid if we over do it by tuning down our responses we'll give the wrong impression to the public. The public has an idea in there mind of what the fire dept should be. It concerns me when we shut of our lights and sirens going to alarms. Whats next the public telling us we don't need the full 1st alarm assignment? Why should we send those fire trucks when only one comes in an emergency mode?

Some of us will point out tragic accidents that have happened in the past. You know what though? Accidents are preventable. Some of these policies are ATF policies. AFTER THE FACT. It frightens me that fire departments will gauge down a response because of the possibility of tunnel vision, the possibility of someone driving without due regard because of adrenaline. Correct the real issue, the driving of the members of the department.

I will concede there are alarms that we go to that don't justify the use of lights and siren. However the alarm assignements need to be looked at on a local level as well as the people who are driving the apparatus.

[Remember585 815]

An old FD Captain once told me an alarm is an alarm till we get there and see what it is. Thats why you put your gear on, thats why we get out of the rig ready to work. Even though we know statistically it's going to be a false alarm. I'm afraid if we over do it by tuning down our responses we'll give the wrong impression to the public. The public has an idea in there mind of what the fire dept should be.

I agree we should be geared up and ready to go, believe me, it's one of my biggest peeves. But as far as the "public's perception," there's still a lot of them out there that see us as nothing more then noise making, rude, property destroying drunks! Many, or as I'd like to think of it as, most fire departments do a great job of keeping the level of professionalism as high as they can. It's a customer service based thing we do, and if the customer isn't happy with us, it's going to be damn hard to get the things we want (more equipment, people, etc.). Let's face it, in many smaller communities there is no need to stomp on the Q at 2 AM. While common sense SHOULD prevail, you just can't teach it, so that's where good policy and training comes into effect.

When things like that photo from the Mamaroneck Parade pop up, that public perception I was talking about gets yet another foothold setting us back in our quest to better ourselves in the eyes of those we protect.

[Danger 160]

An old FD Captain once told me an alarm is an alarm till we get there and see what it is. Thats why you put your gear on, thats why we get out of the rig ready to work. Even though we know statistically it's going to be a false alarm. I'm afraid if we over do it by tuning down our responses we'll give the wrong impression to the public. The public has an idea in there mind of what the fire dept should be. It concerns me when we shut of our lights and sirens going to alarms. Whats next the public telling us we don't need the full 1st alarm assignment? Why should we send those fire trucks when only one comes in an emergency mode?

I tend to agree with you, I don't know how other departments operate but for us an AFA brings out full turnouts, SCBA, tools, standing by FDC, hydrant, etc.

If we disregard the alarm to the point that we don't really care to send out apparatus, then why bother at all? Don't even page the vollys, landline the chief/shift command and have him take his $30,000 car over instead. I always heard the same thing about complacency and treating everything as true until proven otherwise.

Captain Nechis, I am not doubting your experience and statistics, I know you know what you're talking about and I haven't been in this business that long. However, in the short time that I have been, I've seen more than a handful of "routine" alarms to the senior citizen apartments and the colleges turn out to be working incidents.

I don't think you need five engines and two trucks screaming code 3 to everything either. My department sends only the first two apparatus lights and sirens. I also think a lot of things FDs go code 3 for are ridiculous, i.e brush fires, elevator emergencies, 95% of EMS calls, etc.

We all know dumb the public can be especially at reporting incidents and I won't be the guy who took the elevator to the "false alarm" floor and got thrown on his a** for it, I'll have the high rise pack on the stairs.

[INIT915 1,119]

If we disregard the alarm to the point that we don't really care to send out apparatus, then why bother at all? Don't even page the vollys, landline the chief/shift command and have him take his $30,000 car over instead. I always heard the same thing about complacency and treating everything as true until proven otherwise.

No one mentioned not responding to alarms. It's the urgentness (and in many cases outright recklessness) in which the alarm is taken in. Can you honestly say that RLS statistically impacts your response times?

[DaRock98 76]

Another way to consider slowing things down if unsure if its an emergency or not is continue the 1st engine in emergecny mode and all others go 10-20 (normal nonemergency driving). If its real, you'll get there fast and can step up everyone else, will only delay the 2nd due by a minute but reduces the risks.

I agree with this 100% I think this is how it should be. The first due engine goes L/S all others 10-20 until a chief or that first due engine gets on scene to confirm.

[ny10570 745]

We all ready triage fire alarm responses, but as soon as you start suggesting non emergent responses people get all fired up like you're trying to close houses. Do you roll out the same response for rubbish fires that you do for multiple source structure fires? No because that would be unnecessary, wasteful, and add an unnecessary risk. Accidents are often not the fault of the responders. Off the top of my head I can think of 3 accidents (one in Mt. Pleasant and 2 in NYC) that have resulted in 1 civilian fatality, several firefighter injuries, a totaled engine and tens of thousands of dollars in damage to property that were 100% not the fault of the responders but they were responding to non-life threatening alarms.

Responding non emergent is not the same as complacency and not giving a F***. You pull up to a 2 story vacant p/d with fire on all all floors are you going to make the same push you would make if it were the same 2 story p/d at 2am with a car in the driveway? We all ready modify our responses and actions on scene based upon the information we have available to us. We then take that info and make a risk vs reward judgment. Yeah there could be squatters inside that vacant, but odds are there aren't and there's also a good chance that anyone who goes inside that building won't come out. At the house with the car in the driveway, only one car around here they could be out of town maybe on vacation but am I willing to not make a push based on that? Lets throw a bicycle in the front yard, I think we're all trying to get inside that house asap.

[Bnechis 3,961]

We all ready triage fire alarm responses, but as soon as you start suggesting non emergent responses people get all fired up like you're trying to close houses.

The only ones who seem to get all fired up are the firefighters.

Has anyone considered that central station alarm companies are selling a service of protection (fire & break-in) and they advertise how they will protect you by professionally dispatching emergency responders (that you've already paid for).

Some communities bill the home owners for unwarrented alarms, but with 30% - 40% of all calls for Police, Fire & I've fallen but I can't get up (but they are not home) calls. Maybe its time to pass legislation that the central station alarm companies should be paying for our services when they send us to faulty alarms (particularly for the 3rd, 10th or 1,000th time....)

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I've seen and heard just about every possible response about how having a response policy in effect isn't a good idea. But how can anyone argue against the statistics that larger departments who have them and have used them for several years with high success in reducing accidents, not only of their apparatus but the large amounts of rebound accidents we cause of other vehicles? You can put cameras in place...the thought of them will last only so long. You can be the safest driver in the universe you can't control other people.

As far as its an alarm until you prove. There's a no brainer. But doesn't every size up begin with dispatch? Risk vs. Benefit starts there and continues through. Why put your personnel in greater risk going to a call that statistically is going to be nothing. Sure we've all had the AFA that has turned out to be a fire...and at what ratio 1 to ??????? and each question mark after the first are for all the zeroes. If your that worried about it...do you really need millions of dollars worth of equipment running hot for those same stats? If you really that worried about it..send the first due hot and the others cold. I'm sure the extra few seconds you save running hot are going to make the hugest difference in your head although statistics have shown it makes none either. If the first due gets there they can easily upgrade the other units...or do what happens 99% of the time..cancel the unneeded units.

NFPA 1500 requires a policy on response and is the greater document of safety for response over NYS V & T law. Even though you are granted exemptions with the lights and sires BS when using an exemption in addition to you have to be responding to a TRUE EMERGENCY. Which if you read the definition of a true emergency...95 to 99% of our resonses. AFA's do not have a high chance that the operation of an emergency vehicle is going to make a difference. CO (not CO2) calls with no symptoms and the building is evacuated, no symptoms...high risk of death or injury there? MVA no injuries....wires down, outside gas...my favorite...AFA call back reports accidental activation....true emergency there? EMS side...ankle injury? I love the well dispatch can be wrong...I had a toe injury and it was amputated. Give me a break. We run to calls with lights and sirens..that we don't go to the hospital with lights and sirens on.

[CAM502 6]

Many of the comments I have read on this thread from those who don't get it and still want to respond lights and sirens to every call, are very similar to those that have been heard in community after community over the last 30 or so years when it was proposed to remove False Alarm Boxes from street corners. In every community, a close examination of alarms from street boxes for multi year periods, showed that there NEVER was a working fire reported via a Street Alarm Box that wasn't also reported via landline phone and or cell phone.

Ummm...You are wrong.

LOL...sorry for going off topic.