Ramapo police to probe Hasidic woman's booking

[gamewell45 258]

She was arrested for a crime. She was PHOTOGRAPHED and FINGERPRINTED as are all people that are arrested for a CRIME. It doesn't mean she is guilty, it just means that she was being CHARGED. It happens every day in every town USA. If it so happened that the charge was less then a felony, she might not have had this problem. But since she decided to SCAM the WELFARE OFFICE this is what she gets. SHE MADE her BED and now she has to sleep in it. The question is did this officer do the wrong thing by having her remove her "wig"? The ANSWER IS NO. Did he do wrong by printing her? NO. He had a job to do and he did it. Screw this Mayor who is scared of the backlash. Shame on the Police Chief as well for not backing his officer.

I wish they would post the booking picture.

We can debate this til' were all blue in the face; however the courts will ultimately decide whether she is guilty of her crime and if a lawsuit is launched, whether the Police Officer violated her rights. Not much more to say is there?

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

We can debate this til' were all blue in the face; however the courts will ultimately decide whether she is guilty of her crime and if a lawsuit is launched, whether the Police Officer violated her rights. Not much more to say is there?

exactly, unless someone here has based the BAR, has their JD and is a judge or directly involved in this case, we can not speculate on innocent or guilty or constitutionality for this is not the arena to do so. The Court Room is, anything believed otherwise is false and a direct break from the Bill of Rights.

Edited June 24, 2008 by bvfdjc316

[Guest]

Clearly, I have interpreted the Constitution differently than some people.

same here. i know the law leaves a lot of "lines" to read in between the actual text, and that's always the problem.

Goose, i actually do know some about the Ramapo area, not all but some and i know a little bit more about the Hasidic ways. The Hasidics are just as powerful as any other social/ethnic/religous group that "lobbies" for their best interest. i can think of a dozen other "groups" that do the same, but i only see Hasidic BASHING on this forum. Yes, she is accused of breaking the law, but so do many others in those other "groups"...where are those postings?? I disagree with the Hasicid ways, i find the few i deal with arrogant, VERY prejudice and even racist, but i ENVY the fact that they are so powerful...as a group, not necessarily individuals. i envy them bc they don't use physical force to get their ways, they use words...even leading to manipulation, but it's generally done peacefully. They are a VERY interesting group of people.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

same here. i know the law leaves a lot of "lines" to read in between the actual text, and that's always the problem.

Goose, i actually do know some about the Ramapo area, not all but some and i know a little bit more about the Hasidic ways. The Hasidics are just as powerful as any other social/ethnic/religous group that "lobbies" for their best interest. i can think of a dozen other "groups" that do the same, but i only see Hasidic BASHING on this forum. Yes, she is accused of breaking the law, but so do many others in those other "groups"...where are those postings?? I disagree with the Hasicid ways, i find the few i deal with arrogant, VERY prejudice and even racist, but i ENVY the fact that they are so powerful...as a group, not necessarily individuals. i envy them bc they don't use physical force to get their ways, they use words...even leading to manipulation, but it's generally done peacefully. They are a VERY interesting group of people.

They don't use physical force? They are looking for a HASIDIC teen who was involved in a vicious attack in Brooklyn last month. They believe that he fled to Canada then to Israel. They are sneaks and crooks that get away with far too much.

What other groups do you speak of? I will "b****" about them if I have a reason. I have reason right now so I am going to b****. The sad thing is if she did commit the crime but gets the charges dropped because she had her picture taken. I hope the DA knows how to tread water up there in Rockland.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

They don't use physical force? They are looking for a HASIDIC teen who was involved in a vicious attack in Brooklyn last month. They believe that he fled to Canada then to Israel. They are sneaks and crooks that get away with far too much.

What other groups do you speak of? I will "b****" about them if I have a reason. I have reason right now so I am going to b****. The sad thing is if she did commit the crime but gets the charges dropped because she had her picture taken. I hope the DA knows how to tread water up there in Rockland.

Are you for real????? I hope you just realize that you just insulted an entire people. Not all Jews are like this and certainly not all Hasidic. I am Jewish and I have relatives in the Hasidic community. Does that mean that I am a sneak and a crook?

I hope you have misspoken.

Edited June 24, 2008 by bvfdjc316

[helicopper 1,050]

same here. i know the law leaves a lot of "lines" to read in between the actual text, and that's always the problem.

Goose, i actually do know some about the Ramapo area, not all but some and i know a little bit more about the Hasidic ways. The Hasidics are just as powerful as any other social/ethnic/religous group that "lobbies" for their best interest. i can think of a dozen other "groups" that do the same, but i only see Hasidic BASHING on this forum. Yes, she is accused of breaking the law, but so do many others in those other "groups"...where are those postings?? I disagree with the Hasicid ways, i find the few i deal with arrogant, VERY prejudice and even racist, but i ENVY the fact that they are so powerful...as a group, not necessarily individuals. i envy them bc they don't use physical force to get their ways, they use words...even leading to manipulation, but it's generally done peacefully. They are a VERY interesting group of people.

Why don't we post all the articles about every arrest? Because this one had a twist! She's arguing that she was violated and her religious beliefs ignored because she was processed like any other "person charged with a crime" (how's that Gamewell?). That's what made this unique.

I don't envy the fact that any special interest group (including FASNY ) has so much power - they're all self centered and self serving!

They don't use physical force? They are looking for a HASIDIC teen who was involved in a vicious attack in Brooklyn last month. They believe that he fled to Canada then to Israel. They are sneaks and crooks that get away with far too much.

What other groups do you speak of? I will "b****" about them if I have a reason. I have reason right now so I am going to b****. The sad thing is if she did commit the crime but gets the charges dropped because she had her picture taken. I hope the DA knows how to tread water up there in Rockland.

No charges have been dropped yet, I don't even know if the DA's had a chance to review the case yet.

As for the Hasidic male allegedly fleeing the country after an assault... what does that have to do with his being Hasidic. Didn't the Hispanic marine flee to Mexico after killing his "girlfriend"? Didn't Steven Israel just flee to avoid his federal rap for fraud? None of this has to do with race or religion, it has to do with CRIMINALS (sorry Gamewell) fleeing their crimes!!!

I bet you don't like it when all cops are generalized as lazy thieves or whatever else. Why make such generalizations now? Every group has bad apples; that doesn't make the whole group bad!

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Why don't we post all the articles about every arrest? Because this one had a twist! She's arguing that she was violated and her religious beliefs ignored because she was processed like any other "person charged with a crime" (how's that Gamewell?). That's what made this unique.

I don't envy the fact that any special interest group (including FASNY ) has so much power - they're all self centered and self serving!

No charges have been dropped yet, I don't even know if the DA's had a chance to review the case yet.

As for the Hasidic male allegedly fleeing the country after an assault... what does that have to do with his being Hasidic. Didn't the Hispanic marine flee to Mexico after killing his "girlfriend"? Didn't Steven Israel just flee to avoid his federal rap for fraud? None of this has to do with race or religion, it has to do with CRIMINALS (sorry Gamewell) fleeing their crimes!!!

I bet you don't like it when all cops are generalized as lazy thieves or whatever else. Why make such generalizations now? Every group has bad apples; that doesn't make the whole group bad!

I brought up a point that someone had said that they aren't violent. That's it. Sorry if that offended some people. Maybe calling them crooks and sneaks was wrong but that was in know way inteneded to OFFEND any PERSON OF JEWISH RELIGION.

Actually Chris it always comes down to RACE AND RELIGION unfortunately. Whether a CRIME was commited or not.

[SgtGumby311 0]

I think that a point was being made about ONE particular case, in response to a previous post. This does not need to be blown into a whole race and religion thing. Nobody likes it when someone from their race, culture or even, profession is dragged through the mud...

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I brought up a point that someone had said that they aren't violent. That's it. Sorry if that offended some people. Maybe calling them crooks and sneaks was wrong but that was in know way inteneded to OFFEND any PERSON OF JEWISH RELIGION.

Actually Chris it always comes down to RACE AND RELIGION unfortunately. Whether a CRIME was commited or not.

The damage is done......you can not un-ring the bell.

[gamewell45 258]

She's arguing that she was violated and her religious beliefs ignored because she was processed like any other "person charged with a crime" (how's that Gamewell?). That's what made this unique.

Bravo! (no pun intended)

I don't envy the fact that any special interest group (including FASNY ) has so much power - they're all self centered and self serving!

FASNY only has as much power as its members allow it to have.

As for the Hasidic male allegedly fleeing the country after an assault... what does that have to do with his being Hasidic. Didn't the Hispanic marine flee to Mexico after killing his "girlfriend"? Didn't Steven Israel just flee to avoid his federal rap for fraud? None of this has to do with race or religion, it has to do with CRIMINALS (sorry Gamewell) fleeing their crimes!!!

No need to be sorry, a convicted criminal is just that. I just don't think we should be convicting people charged with crimes in here. Lets leave that up to the court system that this country cherishes so much.

[OnTheWheel 43]

There is no Constitutional issue here, Working for the TSA we can and have removed wigs and other headware, we offer privatre screening or its done right there on the floor. Of course the passenger can refuse but guess what they aint gettin on the flight. So there is no problem I am sure with police having a wig removed, picture taken I am sure is done in private or can be arranged to be done one on one with a witness as we do it. This sounds like as mentioned in a few post the bad guy trying to turn this around.

AMEN! We worry about "offending" too many people these days. Unfortunatly, as I've previously stated, this country HAS FORGOT 9/11 and what happened. Not that everyone thats Muslim is a criminal etc etc, but if it is for the safety of a lock up or a plane, take the religious items off, uncover the face etc. BUT!!!!.. you better be taking the wig off the 90 year old guy you lock up for dwi. This country needs to wake up, I thought it got the ultimate wake up call 7 years ago but I guess not!

ps-does anyone know how to shrink those pennies? :-)

Edited June 24, 2008 by OnTheWheel

[Goose 188]

The bottom line here is that the political system is being manipulated and abused and the Cops are being put in a dangerous position. You can deny and argue it all you want, but there is no question in my mind what is going on. I've seen it first hand.

As a side bar, this has nothing to do with the Jewish faith at all. You can easily plug in any bloc and really the end result would be the same.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Goose

[grumpyff 1,159]

"asking her to remove her wig."

that's where the problem comes into play

Total BS... that wig is coming off no matter what, not for the photos, but for the offiicer's safety. It needs to be properly searched to ensure there is no contraband in there that can injure an officer, facilitate an escape, or is illegal to possess. Things such as bobby pins, hair clips, needles, crack pipes, razor blades could all be easily concealed in that wig. SAFETY FIRST, SEARCH YOUR PERP. AS for being touched by a male officer, too bad. Hopefully he was wearing latex gloves...therefore no contact was made, Just like EMS, you do not know what diseases your perps may have.

[Skooter92 7]

OK...

1) I'm jewish...and I wasn't offended, because I've learned not to be reactionary. Simply put, if you aren't looking for a reason to fight, why bother?

2) The Hasidim have the same issues of crime, both violent and otherwise, as the greater society around them. They aren't any better or worse than the rest of us, just dressed differently. I speak from experience on this one, trust me.

3) Hasidic or not, someone accused of a crime must undergo the same experience as any other person in the same circumstances. A valid medical reason for some exception to the booking procedure is one thing, but the greater good allows for some diminishment of certain personal freedoms in certain circumstances. In order to enjoy the freedoms and priviledges of society, one must accept that at certain times certain things that have been granted may be revoked or limited. That is a fact, as we have seen after 9/11, for example. We gave this woman access to certain benefits, she stands accused of abusing this priviledge, now she must endure some curtailments and limitations in order to go through the process to either clear her name or be found responsible for what she has been charged with.

4) Jewish thought and custom allows for the conformance with secular law and the possibility that doing so may cause one to break one of "the rules". She isn't going to be penalized for removing her wig, no one was hurt, and her relationship with God has not been jeopardized. Who has been harmed?

Edited June 25, 2008 by Skooter92

[Guest alsfirefighter]

THIS IS BULLSH!T!!! I support that Officer 110%....he did nothing but follow proper procedure and one that has been long held up in court right down to how a woman tried to sue to have her drivers license picture taken with her berka hood on.

If she wasn't Hasidic would we even hear of this? Would it be an issue? Probably not...stop kissing their asses and allow people to do their jobs.

[210 91]

THIS IS BULLSH!T!!! I support that Officer 110%....he did nothing but follow proper procedure and one that has been long held up in court right down to how a woman tried to sue to have her drivers license picture taken with her berka hood on.

If she wasn't Hasidic would we even hear of this? Would it be an issue? Probably not...stop kissing their asses and allow people to do their jobs.

Amen

[AFS1970 504]

Like the example of the false Native American coming into the prison, some people will use any special interest group they belong to claim special rights when faced with Police action. Right or wrong, true or false, this happens every day. In this regard, this one woman has proven that this is no different for a Hassidic Jew. What a dubious equality to achieve, one I am not sure their community really wants.

As for various departments allowing various uniform adaptations, it was only last year that New York City Transit was involved in a major case about allowing Muslim women to wear head scarves on duty. I read a while back about Toronto Police creating a special Turban Badge for their Sikh members to wear on their dark blue uniform turbans. Which brings up another point, one wouldn’t need to ask a Muslim man to remove his turban, because they generally don’t wear turbans.

All of this aside, am I the only one that is disturbed by the fact that the politicians and the Chief in this case are going to fix their SOP’s after consultation with various special interest groups? Allowing a group whose members are protesting your policy to dictate changes to your policy will start a domino effect every time such a complaint is made. This is exactly the kind of pandering that worries Law Enforcement Officers and should worry the rest of us. As some have said here, let the courts decide this, well then let the courts decide if the SOP’s are wrong, and then do the research and make the appropriate changes, but don’t make change for change’s sake or worst for fear’s sake.

[Oswegowind 17]

I like to think I'm very open minded, but there is no argument to be made here. You cannot be processed wearing a wig. What's next? The next perp states they have a religious need to be photographed with sunglasses on!? Or maybe face-painted.

Courts have already decided that Muslim women cannot be processed with a veil, this is no different.

He should have taken pictures with and without wig. As, I doubt she commits crimes without the wig. I don't feel her rights were violated. Neither were those of the clown the county arrested in Tibbets Brook Park a few years ago! Literally, a clown...she was photoed with the make up on and off...looked better with it on!

[JCESU 20]

The ultra-liberal statements made by some people that are directly related to the public safety community-are startling to say the least. Based on what was put in print I applaud the Officer for a job well done. There are several tests affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court that provide for the protection of religous freedom. None of which I can say were violated in this instance. This allegation of a violation of civil rights by this animal just incites me to do go out and do my job. Do it professionally and aggresively. BTW if they have reason to believe she committed a crime-I then have reason to believe she is an animal (for those of you who will cry because I said she is animal). The real victim here is obviously the state (the complainant) and the Officer's involved and there families. They will have to do deal with the non-sensical allegations made by a cunning criminal in many ways. Our way of life and our beloved Country are in such serious trouble because of liberal scum that wring their hands and cry everytime they get a chance to get on a soap box...we someday will implode.

God Bless America!