Volunteer POV's In CT- Courtesy Lights?

[firemp218 3]

what color lights do vol. have on pov's in ct

[dfdallen 13]

Blue for the fd green for the ambulance.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Allan is correct and to add to it, some towns allow alternating flashing headlights as well as long as they have the proper blue light / green light permit. This was an act passed by the state legislature a few years back. However there was some controversy obviously with the state and local PDs about flashing headlights. In the end the towns and districts have the final say and very few allow flashing headlights, understandably.

[Guest]

Allan is correct and to add to it, some towns allow alternating flashing headlights as well as long as they have the proper blue light / green light permit. This was an act passed by the state legislature a few years back. However there was some controversy obviously with the state and local PDs about flashing headlights. In the end the towns and districts have the final say and very few allow flashing headlights, understandably.

thats a great idea, those little dash lights don't do the job.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

thats a great idea, those little dash lights don't do the job.

I wish NY would wake up and smell the coffee.

[Goose 188]

I wish NY would wake up and smell the coffee.

You think a little dash light, grill lights or wig wags are going to make traffic move? It's not. I drive a big multi-colored box with a gazillion LEDs, strobes and a 200 watt siren with ambulance plastered all over it. People still don't yield the right of way.

[x129K 1,393]

You think a little dash light, grill lights or wig wags are going to make traffic move? It's not. I drive a big multi-colored box with a gazillion LEDs, strobes and a 200 watt siren with ambulance plastered all over it. People still don't yield the right of way.

NEEDS Train Horns......

[Guest]

throw in a mechanical siren with some ear plugs and we're set!

[helicopper 1,050]

I wish NY would wake up and smell the coffee.

I agree! Do away with all the so called "courtesy lights" and then lights will only be on authorized and emergency vehicles.

[ex-commish 490]

thats a great idea, those little dash lights don't do the job.

Just what we need...more cars with extra lights

[ex-commish 490]

I wish NY would wake up and smell the coffee.

So do I....but with training standards, officer qualifications, you know the important stuff.

[DOC22 1]

I agree! Do away with all the so called "courtesy lights" and then lights will only be on authorized and emergency vehicles.

I'm with you, on this one, Chris! I can't even remember the last time I Had a blue light let alone used it.

[joetnymedic 43]

Who needs lights anyways - the public doesn't move for jack for full fledged emergency vehicles - or better yet, they try to beat you. I say put a push bumper on the front and move em out of the way.

[Raz 14]

thats a great idea, those little dash lights don't do the job.

I wouldn't know, I've yet to see a car pass me that has just one forward facing blue light.

[jcoppola 52]

I think that you have a better chance of getting somewhere quickly without a blue light. What benefit do they have over stealth mode? You cannot speed, you have to obey all traffic regulations, people are not obligated to pull over for you and all you are doing is drawing unnecessary attention to yourself. Most FD's around here (Fairfield County) make their personnel respond to the firehouse, NOT to the scene as that only confuses an already confusing situation. I think they also lead to accidents because the user feels a false sense of security that people are going to give you the right of way. NOT TRUE...like was said in a previous post, people hardly move for a 20 ton rig with screaming sirens and LED light packages that can be seen from across the LI Sound. I say the state should do away with them altogether. But then GALLS may go out of business...

[Goose 188]

x2 Jcoppola. Personal vehicle lights are a silly idea all around and i would also agree that they are dangerous. A professional warning package (lights and sirens) on a certified emergency vehicle only shaves a handful of minutes, if anything, off of a response what are some tiny grill lights and a slim dash light going to do? Nothing at all, period amen.

Also, i am a big fan of having volunteers respond to their respective buildings. It just makes so much more sense. Yeah, i GUESS having an EMT or FF solo on scene is cool but you really can't do a whole lot. You can either watch the patient crap out or the building burn (some may disagree with me, but in my experience this is about as far as it goes). Head to the building because that is what helps get that truck or ambulance out the door and those are the pieces of equipment that have the real potential for making a difference.

[firemp218 3]

what color dos pd have

[firemp218 3]

in sc we have red light and siren on our povs

[crcocr1 8]

"Also, i am a big fan of having volunteers respond to their respective buildings. It just makes so much more sense. Yeah, i GUESS having an EMT or FF solo on scene is cool but you really can't do a whole lot. You can either watch the patient crap out or the building burn (some may disagree with me, but in my experience this is about as far as it goes). Head to the building because that is what helps get that truck or ambulance out the door and those are the pieces of equipment that have the real potential for making a difference."

Insofar as EMTs-It depends on how you equip your volunteers. If you provide them with oxygen, aspirin, glucose, charcoal, and related supplies, you enable a patient to get the basic care quicker so that the ambulance need only "load and go" with patient. Otherwise, I agree with your comment.

Insofar as FFs-I have no ability to comment but makes sense.

[MPACE2-299 0]

I disagree, a blue courtesy light does make when you live in a district that the fire house is on the main road which is usually clogged with traffic and it would normally take 45 minutes to drive a 1/8 of a mile, a Blue light makes a big difference. When most of the traffic is stopped they then to be more then willing to give the courtesy to pull on the shoulder and let us safely pass at a speed which is probably less then half the posted speed limit in the area but still a whole lot faster then waiting in the bumper to bumper traffic.

[20y2 43]

what color dos pd have

Red AND blue.

[AFS1970 504]

As a single Fire Service we have to get over our mixed emotions on these lights. We also have to decide what these lights are really for. Every time this debate crops up someone always brings up the phrase “courtesy lights”. Volunteers should be finned for ever using this phrase, because it puts us in the wrong mind set and allows the public to be in the wrong mind set. There are two aspects we can choose to educate the public on, that they don’t have to pull over or that they should pull over. It is up to us which one we prioritize, but if we pick the wrong one among ourselves, we will not be able to pick the right one with the public.

I will explain that. Yes all traffic laws must be followed, No there are no special privileges given out with that Blue Light Permit. However they are Emergency Warning devices in the fact that they are warning people that the car with all those lights is enroute either to the scene of an emergency or to go get apparatus that they will bring to the scene of an emergency. Do we really want to educate the public that yielding to such needs is an option?

The reason that people don’t pull over for apparatus is lack of enforcement. The vehicle that is not being pulled over for has more to worry about than the one who didn’t pull over, they have to worry about the emergency they are Enroute to and how dangerous this response is. The public knows this, and knows that they probably will not get a ticket for this, so they gamble and usually win. Since lights on POV’s don’t have the same weight, the two issues are really not the same and shouldn’t be used to argue for or against each other.

[gamewell45 258]

I agree! Do away with all the so called "courtesy lights" and then lights will only be on authorized and emergency vehicles.

I also agree. The blue light is only a "courtesy" light and I found out years ago that people aren't very courteous in NY. All they do is confuse people, in particular, at traffic intersections where people stop in all directions and hence, no traffic flows. I have one, which i rarely , if ever use.

I have a friend who is a volunteer fireman in the state of Georgia, where volunteers have their personal vehicles listed as "emergency" response vehicles and as such are authorized the use of red lights (including wig wags) and sirens. If anything thats what the state should authorize volunteers in both the fire and EMS to use. Anything else is most likely useless.

[SgtGumby311 0]

I also agree. The blue light is only a "courtesy" light and I found out years ago that people aren't very courteous in NY. All they do is confuse people, in particular, at traffic intersections where people stop in all directions and hence, no traffic flows. I have one, which i rarely , if ever use.

I have a friend who is a volunteer fireman in the state of Georgia, where volunteers have their personal vehicles listed as "emergency" response vehicles and as such are authorized the use of red lights (including wig wags) and sirens. If anything thats what the state should authorize volunteers in both the fire and EMS to use. Anything else is most likely useless.

If NY allowed what Georgia does, it would look and sound, like a major catastrophe was going on every time the FD or VAC was paged out. I realize not everyone buff's out, but if this door was opened, I'd want stock in Gall's.....

[Guest EFFP411]

I think that "courtesy lights" are really a hit or miss. you can either have good luck, and have traffic move, or not so good luck, and get stuck behind a careless moron. I do think that if NY was to do away with the courtesy light, they should consider allowing more than just the chief or highest ranking officer to run red lights and siren. CT should do the same. Well qualified members, who prove their capabilities and usefulness on scene and carry enough equipment to do something when they get there, who often respond to the firehouse for apparatus, not just every idiot that joins such an organization. And the first warranted complaint, pull their card. its that simple. "abuse it once, and its gone". I know how tough it is to try to get to the firehouse for a call, i live about 6 miles away from mine, half of my response is through moderate traffic and busy intersections. And if i end up going to the scene to do fire police, or at the very least th HQ to get the fire police van, its about 9 1/2 miles. I usually only ever use my "courtesy lights" at night, or wait till i get to the scene, and end up using my Vehicle as a traffic barrier. To those who think the lights and siren thing is a bad idea without thinking it through, just remember that any potentially bad thing can be made good with moderation, regulation, and respect.... I'm sure some people will pipe up and tell me i'm nuts or whatever, but its just the way i feel.

Edited June 26, 2008 by EFFP411

[abaduck 123]

I think that you have a better chance of getting somewhere quickly without a blue light. What benefit do they have over stealth mode? You cannot speed, you have to obey all traffic regulations, people are not obligated to pull over for you and all you are doing is drawing unnecessary attention to yourself.

Indeed. If you speed, and play fast & loose with traffic regulations... well as an instructor once put it to me... 'if you have no lights, people just think 'there goes another a******'. If you have blue lights, people think 'there goes another a****** vollie firefighter...' "

Wise words. I do have a light, but use it sparingly.

Mike

[helicopper 1,050]

As a single Fire Service we have to get over our mixed emotions on these lights. We also have to decide what these lights are really for. Every time this debate crops up someone always brings up the phrase “courtesy lights”. Volunteers should be finned for ever using this phrase, because it puts us in the wrong mind set and allows the public to be in the wrong mind set. There are two aspects we can choose to educate the public on, that they don’t have to pull over or that they should pull over. It is up to us which one we prioritize, but if we pick the wrong one among ourselves, we will not be able to pick the right one with the public.

I will explain that. Yes all traffic laws must be followed, No there are no special privileges given out with that Blue Light Permit. However they are Emergency Warning devices in the fact that they are warning people that the car with all those lights is enroute either to the scene of an emergency or to go get apparatus that they will bring to the scene of an emergency. Do we really want to educate the public that yielding to such needs is an option?

The reason that people don’t pull over for apparatus is lack of enforcement. The vehicle that is not being pulled over for has more to worry about than the one who didn’t pull over, they have to worry about the emergency they are Enroute to and how dangerous this response is. The public knows this, and knows that they probably will not get a ticket for this, so they gamble and usually win. Since lights on POV’s don’t have the same weight, the two issues are really not the same and shouldn’t be used to argue for or against each other.

That's one interpretation. But the Vehicle and Traffic Law is pretty clear. Those displaying blue/green lights are not authorized emergency vehicles, are not engaged in an emergency operation, and have no special permissions/authority. To call the lights "emergency warning devices" is not backed up by any regulation or legislation. You can try to "educate" the public that they should yield, and some might, but there's no requirement to do so.

I don't think the whole problem is a lack of enforcement. That contributes to it but there's much, much more. Like the ambulance sitting at a red light with its emergency lights on "because there's a patient on board"; authorized emergency vehicles screaming to every job with lights and siren even when it probably isn't necessary and won't actually save any time; more and more vehicles with lights and/or sirens desensitizing the public to them (such as the "SPCA" [no offense]), and I'm sure others will come up with more.

Another issue is the notion that the use of these lights actually saves time. If red/white lights and a siren don't save an appreciable amount of time in most cases, what makes you think a blue/green light will?

More down side than up side in my opinion.

§ 101. Authorized emergency vehicle. Every ambulance, police vehicle

or bicycle, correction vehicle, fire vehicle, civil defense emergency

vehicle, emergency ambulance service vehicle, blood delivery vehicle,

county emergency medical services vehicle, environmental emergency

response vehicle, sanitation patrol vehicle, hazardous materials

emergency vehicle and ordnance disposal vehicle of the armed forces of

the United States.

§ 114-b. Emergency operation. The operation, or parking, of an

authorized emergency vehicle, when such vehicle is engaged in

transporting a sick or injured person, transporting prisoners,

delivering blood or blood products in a situation involving an imminent

health risk, pursuing an actual or suspected violator of the law, or

responding to, or working or assisting at the scene of an accident,

disaster, police call, alarm of fire, actual or potential release of

hazardous materials or other emergency. Emergency operation shall not

include returning from such service.

Section 375-41 of the VTL...

41. Colored and flashing lights. The provisions of this subdivision

shall govern the affixing and display of lights on vehicles, other than

those lights required by law. 1. No light, other than a white light, and

no revolving, rotating, flashing, oscillating or constantly moving white

light shall be affixed to, or displayed on any vehicle except as

prescribed herein.

2. Red lights and certain white lights. One or more red or combination

red and white lights, or one white light which must be a revolving,

rotating, flashing, oscillating or constantly moving light, may be

affixed to an authorized emergency vehicle, and such lights may be

displayed on an authorized emergency vehicle when such vehicle is

engaged in an emergency operation, and upon a fire vehicle while

returning from an alarm of fire or other emergency.

4. Blue light. a. One blue light may be affixed to any motor vehicle

owned by a volunteer member of a fire department or on a motor vehicle

owned by a member of such person's family residing in the same household

or by a business enterprise in which such person has a proprietary

interest or by which he or she is employed, provided such volunteer

firefighter has been authorized in writing to so affix a blue light by

the chief of the fire department or company of which he or she is a

member, which authorization shall be subject to revocation at any time

by the chief who issued the same or his or her successor in office. Such

blue light may be displayed exclusively by such volunteer firefighter on

such a vehicle only when engaged in an emergency operation. The use of

blue and red light combinations shall be prohibited on all fire

vehicles. The use of blue lights on fire vehicles shall be prohibited

and the use of blue lights on vehicles shall be restricted for use only

by a volunteer firefighter except as otherwise provided for in

subparagraph b of this paragraph.

b. In addition to the red and white lights authorized to be displayed

pursuant to paragraph two of this subdivision, one or more blue lights

or combination blue and red lights or combination blue, red and white

lights may be affixed to a police vehicle, provided that such blue light

or lights shall be displayed on a police vehicle for rear projection

only. In the event that the trunk or rear gate of a police vehicle

obstructs or diminishes the visibility of other emergency lighting on

such vehicle, a blue light may be affixed to and displayed from the

trunk, rear gate or interior of such vehicle. Such lights may be

displayed on a police vehicle when such vehicle is engaged in an

emergency operation. Nothing contained in this subparagraph shall be

deemed to authorize the use of blue lights on police vehicles unless

such vehicles also display one or more red or combination red and white

lights as otherwise authorized in this subdivision.

c. The commissioner is authorized to promulgate rules and regulations

relating to the use, placement, power and display of blue lights on a

police vehicle.

5. Green light. One green light may be affixed to any motor vehicle

owned by a member of a volunteer ambulance service, or on a motor

vehicle owned by a member of such person's family, or by a business

enterprise in which such person has a proprietary interest or by which

he is employed, provided such member has been authorized in writing to

so affix a green light by the chief officer of such service as

designated by the members thereof. Such green light may be displayed

exclusively by such member of a volunteer ambulance service only when

engaged in an emergency operation. The use of green lights on vehicles

shall be restricted for use only by a member of a volunteer ambulance

service as provided for in this paragraph.

[eckyphats 0]

no lights here... and no problems either.. I still pull in the firehouse the same time as the other guy does with 26 different lights

[engine968 8]

Whether or not you need a blue/green light depends on how far you live from your station and what kind of traffic conditions you normally encounter enroute. If I lived only a few blocks away thru side streets I might not need a blue light. But I happen to live a mile-and-a-half from my station in an urban area. First it's 3/4 mile with 6 stop-signs thru side streets just to get to the main road. Then 4 traffic lights along the main road to my station. Not all drivers on the road give us any courtesy, but some do, and it does help get to the station faster. So I'd say if you live some distance from your station, it probably is worth using the light.

[IzzyEng4 427]

no lights here... and no problems either.. I still pull in the firehouse the same time as the other guy does with 26 different lights

Well yah!!! You only went out to pick up dinner for the guys since you were bunking at the firehouse!!! LOL Just poking some fun at yah Ecky