Delaware Paramedic, Patient Killed In Crash After Ambulance Driver Swerved To Avoid Deer

[x635 4,066]

A very graphic and detailed article. Shouldn't ambulances be built better than this? Every time I see a LODD ambulance accident, it seems the ambulance is ripped open like a tin can.

This could have easily happened here.

Thoughts and prayers.

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dl...80356/1006/NEWS

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

During the Defensive Driving Course I just took, your insurance companies want you to hit the deer instead of swerve because it costs more to deal with property damage than it is to deal with damage to the front of your car. Is this true for emergency apparatus or is no real rule set?

[FFD941 20]

HIT THE DEER!!

[ny10570 745]

f-bambi, hit the deer save your life and potentially those around you. A moose on the other hand is different.

Seth, in a word No. For ambulances to be built substantially stronger without adding significant weight the cost would absolutely skyrocket. High strength metal alloys and composite materials are extremely expensive. In this case or in the Rockland accident its not so much the ambulance as it is the object the ambulance struck that is the biggest factor. Trees win every time whether it be a fire apparatus, commercial truck, suv, or car people never fare well in these incidents. In the Rockland accident the ambulance hit the equivalent of a steel blade. It will cut through no matter what vehicle hits it unless you want to start building ambulances out of solid steel.

[x635 4,066]

Seth, in a word No. For ambulances to be built substantially stronger without adding significant weight the cost would absolutely skyrocket.

Personally, I think there's a huge difference in the way a Wheeled Coach is constructed then the way a Lifeline is constructed. There's many things that the ambulance industry can implement that can make a huge impact on safety without making sacrifices elsewhere.

[Future Fireman 4]

f-bambi, hit the deer save your life and potentially those around you. A moose on the other hand is different.

Seth, in a word No. For ambulances to be built substantially stronger without adding significant weight the cost would absolutely skyrocket. High strength metal alloys and composite materials are extremely expensive. In this case or in the Rockland accident its not so much the ambulance as it is the object the ambulance struck that is the biggest factor. Trees win every time whether it be a fire apparatus, commercial truck, suv, or car people never fare well in these incidents. In the Rockland accident the ambulance hit the equivalent of a steel blade. It will cut through no matter what vehicle hits it unless you want to start building ambulances out of solid steel.

If we can make Fire Apparatus out of stainless steel, why not ambulances?

Mike

[ny10570 745]

How much difference is there between different manufacturers? They're all Aluminum frame, wrapped in sheet metal, with a wood floor. I'm willing to bet they all stand up reasonably well to rollovers, but an impact like that is going to destroy that box no matter what you make it out of.

Make the ambulance box out of stainless and you will overweight most chassis with the way some of these monster boxes are configured. As it is many agencies run around with these monsters on go cart wheels to keep the load height low enough. Next size up chassis means air suspensions or a switch to commercial chassis. The increased weight also makes the ambulance more prone to rollover as much of the structural members are across the roof.

[joetnymedic 43]

We all know that the rigs out there are pretty much all top heavy and anyone who drives knows that you have to compensate for that. You start adding more weight and you're looking at more problems. West Haven had a medium duty get hit in 1999 and one of the medics is still in a vegetative state and will never recover. If the side of your rig gets cut open like a tin can or you roll, you're pretty much screwed. Face it, how many times is the crew in the back really strapped in? Should you be? Hell yes. Is it really practical? well maybe not. You have to be loose in the back if you're working on a pt. You get slammed during an emergency trip to the ER and you are going to get hurt, the only thing different is the severity of the injuries. The other thing is, you get T-boned and you are in for a world of hurting. As much as I hate to say it, this as well as all forms of public safety (and yes even though it's not always recognized EMS is a form of public safety) there are dangers to this job. You may go to work and not come home. Should more be done to protect those out there in a rig - of course. And as stated from previous posters. A tree will almost always win, and in the Rockland crash, the flatbed that was struck, acted like a can opener. Ambulances are not built like fire apparatus, and to be honest, while they would be to a degree safer, it just would not be practical. You think your rig is top heavy now add some more weight and see what you get. This crash is a tragedy as well as the rockland crash. Can better driver training help? To a degree, yes, but some accidents aren't a crew members fault. You all know the idiots out there that try to beat the rig, or aren't paying attention and hit you. And each and every one of you reading this and posting have probably all had a close call or two. Unfortunately, accidents will continue to happen, and sad enough to say, I as well as each of you here, will never not have to deal with the loss or injury of a friend, co-worker or another EMS member. Unfortunately that's just a fact of life. We're all family and as a family, we come together during these times. It just sucks that crap like this has to happen.

Joe

PS- Sorry about the rant, but Woody, the West Haven medic was my ex-partner and my friend so it hits home.

[Guest feraldan]

Its 2:40am, a deer suddenly darts out in front of the ambulance... your reaction is going to be to swerve.

[Guest]

Its 2:40am, a deer suddenly darts out in front of the ambulance... your reaction is going to be to swerve.

i have to agree, it's something that's just built in us. i wonder if the deer just jetted across the road, or it was blinded/frozen from the light, bc the lights are siren were on. it amazes me that the deer would still travel in the direction of a siren. a terrible situation.

[ny10570 745]

We have a lot of base reactions that we teach ourselves to ignore. Turn into the skid, evasive braking manuvers, don't turn the wheel when you turn your head, etc. I know I sure as hell don't swerve for squirrels, cats, or rabbits. Deer, I'll find out when I get there. Diver training classes are great, but nothing beats hands on training in evasive maneuvers and size familiarization drills.

[x635 4,066]

How much difference is there between different manufacturers? They're all Aluminum frame, wrapped in sheet metal, with a wood floor. I'm willing to bet they all stand up reasonably well to rollovers, but an impact like that is going to destroy that box no matter what you make it out of.

OK, I have to concede and agree with you now as you have a strong point. The ambulance box was a Horton, and they're traditonally pretty sturdy, and also bill themselves as one of the safer-construction boxes out there. So, in effect, this could have easily been an FDNY ambulance.

I just looked at the damage and thought that there's got to be a better way to make ambulances, as this isn't the first time I've seen damage to an ambulance like this.

[ny10570 745]

I've seen FDNY's Ford Hortons take some good hits and there are some photos that are truly impressive. The boxes hold up quite well in rolls and cab first collisions, but as soon as you make the box take the brunt of the impact its over.