Personal Tech Bag Question (O2)

[Guest]

Question,

Is there any REAL danger to carrying your own O2 tank in a tech bag that you store in your vehicle trunk? I ran into a guy who is a close friend of my cousin last night, we all went out for a quick bite. First time meeting him and we started talking about EMT stuff since he has been one for a few years.

After we eat, we walk outside and he walks me over to his car to show me his personal tech bag which contained pretty much everything including BVM's, collars, head beds and an O2 Tank. I asked him if he was worried about heat in the summer or getting rear ended. He wasn't concerned.

Anyone else here have a similar setup?

Reason I ask is becasue I was planning on carrying a small one with the basics sometime in the future incase I came upon an MVA or any other emergency. Not sure about carrying o2 though. Where would you even get it filled etc?

[Oswegowind 17]

I was never concerned, most commercial ambulances sit outside in the same heat all day too...

Plus, your trunk is usually much cooler than the rest of the interior of your car which is exposed to direct sunlight. I keep a case of water back there and it is never undrinkable...

[ny10570 745]

I have yet to hear or read about an O2 tank casing an injury as anything other than an unrestrained object. Besides, it works for PD why wouldn't it work for you.

[RWC130 594]

I carry 02 in my EMT Mega Duffle.

I've had it well over 10+ years and NEVER a problem.

Also, having the Medical Equipment w/ 02 has come in handy

several times.

BE SAFE!

[firemoose827 324]

Our Squad issues jump bags to all EMT's equipped with O2, BVM's, airways, portable suction, tools, and all the other stuff. Ive used the O2 many times, it comes in handy.

We have a O2 cascade system in our supply closet where the members can re-fill their bottles if used.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Is someone even allowed to carry O2 in the POV?

[Jybehofd 85]

Is someone even allowed to carry O2 in the POV?

i used to carry one in my pov and always made sure it was perpendicular to the fram of the car so if something did happen it would go out the sides and not out the front or rear.

[ny10570 745]

Is someone even allowed to carry O2 in the POV?

Since it is technically a medication I'm sure that there is something that makes it illegal to carry around outside of an agency vehicle. But I don't see that one being enforced any time soon.

[ComputerGuy 3]

Since it is technically a medication I'm sure that there is something that makes it illegal to carry around outside of an agency vehicle. But I don't see that one being enforced any time soon.

I inquired about this, I was told that since is it a Med, you must be certified to carry it. i.e. an EMT.

[Guest CRASH]

A few of us in my dept have joked about the dangers of being rear ended and who would get hit with the bottle but.

.

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1 . i believe the neck would have to snap off for the bottle to become a projectile

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2. The pro's vs. cons of having that bottle readily available in your pov i believe the pro's win on that one

.

and finally how many civililians are walking , driving and rolling around with 02 everyday my mother being one and all she has is a script for the o2 supplier to provide her with her system and portables.

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[Guest]

Thanks for the replies all. Makes sense now.

[aowen 0]

What about using or carrying it without a prescription. When it is carried in an ambulance or by an agency it is prescribed by a physician to be used by that agency, under the direction of the agency's medical director. Even though its "just oxygen", it still is a medication and when you administer it as an EMT or a paramedic you are administering it under a doctor's license. How does that apply to somebody who buys a tank on their own fills it on their own and then administers it on their own.

Edited June 4, 2008 by aowen

[Jybehofd 85]

I don't think you need a percription from a doctor anymore. Have you been to 7-11 they sell what looks like a spray can that is O2 for about 20 bucks. The ads say its good for a hangover, chest pain and after a tough work out. no cert required no MD needed. I wonder what else will be availble over the counter in time....

[Guest CRASH]

I don't think you need a percription from a doctor anymore. Have you been to 7-11 they sell what looks like a spray can that is O2 for about 20 bucks. The ads say its good for a hangover, chest pain and after a tough work out. no cert required no MD needed. I wonder what else will be availble over the counter in time....

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GREAT POINT 02 to go i have seen them and with refills

[JM15 386]

Yeah I saw that recently too at 7-11. That is the only place that I have ever seen the disposable cans.

[JJB531 652]

I don't think you need a percription from a doctor anymore. Have you been to 7-11 they sell what looks like a spray can that is O2 for about 20 bucks. The ads say its good for a hangover, chest pain and after a tough work out. no cert required no MD needed. I wonder what else will be availble over the counter in time....

I was checking out this product's website... It doesn't appear that this product is medical grade oxygen... I'm curious if only medical grade oxygen needs a doctor's prescription or guidance under a medical control license to administer. The Oxygen to Go bottles are 70 to 80% pure (per the website), while the literature I've found on medical grade oxygen all seems to specify a minimum of 93% purity. Not sure if that matters, but....

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I can't see how it matters either way if an EMT has it in their car. I personally never carried oxygen when I was a VAC member, and I have never seen anyone "give it on their own." It was always in the capacity of an EMT on a call or a acute situation (car accidents, medical at the mall they passed by or were in). No one should be free dealing oxygen..although I'm not sure of the street value of it...lol.

As far as soem of the comments on safety. #1: I'm not sure of oxygen's expansion ratio or vapor pressure but I don't think its that significant to be a problem. Your dealing with straight gas being in the container, not a liquid with vapor space that is going to fluctuate with temperature like LPG will.

#2: If your that worried about carrying in a car that your thinking about direction or where it will fly. Don't carry it. In fact there are probably more items in your passenger compartment to injure you in an accident then that O2 tank. As far as carrying it side to side and not front to rear...any projectile going off is dangerous...not to mention if it takes out your fuel pipe, and unless its a clean break it may not go in a straight line. They are pretty solid and take a fair amount of stress to break the neck off.

[abaduck 123]

I can't see any significance to it being used for medicinal purposes; it's not uncommon for pure (although maybe not technically medical grade) O2 to be carried for other purposes - welding, for instance. Not sure how much you would have to carry before you would have to placard it as hazmat.

And alsfirefighter is right on the money about properties of O2; it boils at -183 °C so is seriously cryogenic, it won't be liquid when carried in a cylinder as described. Physical properties here: http://www-safety.seas.harvard.edu/services/oxygen.html

Mike

[STAT213 332]

My question is this: Why are you carrying it at all? Can you prove that the three minutes that someone got oxygen made a difference? Go to your station and get your ambulance. Transport makes a difference. A couple minutes of oxygen doesn't.

[FFD941 20]

My question is this: Why are you carrying it at all? Can you prove that the three minutes that someone got oxygen made a difference? Go to your station and get your ambulance. Transport makes a difference. A couple minutes of oxygen doesn't.

What is the difference of your POV or a district issued Fly-Car??

[ComputerGuy 3]

My question is this: Why are you carrying it at all? Can you prove that the three minutes that someone got oxygen made a difference? Go to your station and get your ambulance. Transport makes a difference. A couple minutes of oxygen doesn't.

Someone goes down in front of me (it has happened more than once), I should leave them and go get my ambulance? I don't know about NH law, but in NY that constitutes abandonment.

A few minutes of O2 does not make a difference? Tell that to someone having an anaphylactic reaction or severe asthma attack.

[JJB531 652]

Someone goes down in front of me (it has happened more than once), I should leave them and go get my ambulance? I don't know about NH law, but in NY that constitutes abandonment.

A few minutes of O2 does not make a difference? Tell that to someone having an anaphylactic reaction or severe asthma attack.

If people are dropping all around you, please let us know your daily schedule so we can all avoid you....

Oxygen is not going to relieve bronchoconstriction/inflammation due to an anaphylactic reaction or an asthma attack... medication will. Doesn't matter how much oxygen you try to administer to someone, if the parts aren't working right (i.e. the upper and lower airway), all the oxygen in the world isn't going to make a difference until you can effectively treat and reverse the bronchoconstriction/inflammation.

Not trying to diminish the importance of oxygen... but it's usefulness only goes so far without additional pharmacological interventions

[ny10570 745]

In 11 years of driving I have never come upon someone who needed supplemental oxygen. I keep a couple of cans of fix-a-flat and a small first aid kit of some simple bandages, tape and band aids. I have never been left short and wanting for more. I never understood the 30lb tech bags people keep in their cars.

[JM15 386]

Some VAC's have personell that respond to the scene where a member could be on scene before the ambulance.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Someone goes down in front of me (it has happened more than once), I should leave them and go get my ambulance? I don't know about NH law, but in NY that constitutes abandonment.

A few minutes of O2 does not make a difference? Tell that to someone having an anaphylactic reaction or severe asthma attack.

If you in your best judgement felt you had to go get an ambulance, that wouldn't be abandonment, particularly if it let to a positive outcome for the patient. Find the right person as you sit there with nothing but oxygen and you could be found to be negligent. There a number of perameters that must be met to have abandonment and that isn't one of them. Again documentation.

A few minutes of O2 doesn't always make a difference. O2 is just making more oxygen available, asthma patient need pharmalogical intervention and anaphylactics need epi. If O2 is the quick fix, then why don't they just prescribe that to people instead of inhalers and epi pens. The supplemental O2 is trying to maximize the available oxygen stores to fight cyanosis, it doesn't treat the underlying process which will get worse and eventually there will be no oxygen getting in.

[ComputerGuy 3]

I am not saying that just O2 is definitive care by any means. I work and live around the town that I serve, and many times find myself right near the location of a call. Our average response time for an ALS ambulance is about 4 1/2 minutes. Which in reality could mean anywhere between 1 and 10 minutes. Administering O2 while I wait for my Medic helps in many cases, even if it is just a physiological effect. That is all that matters.

Edited June 7, 2008 by ComputerGuy

[JCESU 20]

From time to time I have carried o2 in my POV, as my dad was ill with lung cancer, without incident. But rest assured if involved in an MVA and the O2 causes injury to anyone....just grab your ankles. No good deed goes unpunished.

[Oswegowind 17]

I carry 02 in my EMT Mega Duffle.

I've had it well over 10+ years and NEVER a problem.

Also, having the Medical Equipment w/ 02 has come in handy

several times.

BE SAFE!

Rob, do me a favor, empty it and re-fill it, that O2 will taste way to stale, 10 years!

What about using or carrying it without a prescription.

You aren't carrying it to use on yourself, however in an official capacity as an emt/medic for a certified agency that you are a member of. Nice try though.

As for Stat, you have been real negative lately. There are some locations in rural areas where this could benefit, O2 not only avail for the bs jobs, but what about a cardiac arrest, BLS airway, BVM, CPR when the ambu is still 5-10 min away...sounds like a great idea to me!