Westchester Co: Pride In Battalions?

[x635 4,066]

Westchester is split up by the "Battalion" system, yet I'm still not 100% sure of the logic or benefit behind this from a response standpoint.

However, does any department show pride in the battalion they are in by displaying it on their rig, lettering, sticker, whatever???

[FirNaTine 370]

I'm with you Seth. I too don't honestly know the reason or the need for it.

[Guest]

i disagree, i don't think it's entirely a bad system. the Batt Chiefs are supposed to be well trained and educated as far as the FF service goes and have knowledge of available resources, while Dept Chiefs may not be so knowledgable. I'm not putting any chief down, but face it, not all chiefs are elected for the right reasons.

second to the, at the sleepy hollow i had my first experience with the EMS Batt (coordinators), w/e you want to call them. He was there to help, got updated info for me and was around for anything i needed. i must say it was a great first experience.

Edited June 3, 2008 by vacguy

[EJS1810 7]

I've seen some Battalion 16 T-Shirts out there

[x648eng119 2]

Battalion 17 Also has shirts out as well... Watch news 12 during a storm, you'll probably see Bat 17/Yorktown Highway Boss Eric DeBartolo wearing one!

[DaRock98 76]

Theres def. some batt 11 shirts out there too.

[x635 4,066]

Yes, I know a Battalion Chief is an asset at a fire scene because of their knowlege, what I don't understand is their power. I feel that the County should invest more energy and money into the Battalion program, it should be a full time spot 24/7/365, and they should be given power over mutual aid control, etc. Otherwise, just make them Scene Liasons or something.

If their just going to be liasons between the IC and 60 Control, then just have the 60 Control have field commanders that can tie into the CAD system...they know what's available and where the best, and they come anyway to major incidents needing M/A with their command center..

Also, I feel departments should invest more in their Battalions, and play more of a role, such as a Task-force type concept in each battalion, so that there can be a mutual aid response without stripping an entire area, especially during weekday hours. Also, I believe every department should have the Battalion they're in on their apparatus plate, if not more.

[JohnnyOV 2]

i.e. IC quickly asks BC for 2 engines and a ladder, BC then contacts 60 control with the units he wants from what department, while the IC is able to return to the incident and run it without having to worry about which department is getting pulled and for what.

[JohnnyOV 2]

....what happened to the beginning of my post?

[EJS1810 7]

Yes, I know a Battalion Chief is an asset at a fire scene because of their knowlege, what I don't understand is their power. I feel that the County should invest more energy and money into the Battalion program, it should be a full time spot 24/7/365, and they should be given power over mutual aid control, etc. Otherwise, just make them Scene Liasons or something.

I believe they are actually Batallion Coordinators. The Batallion is thier zone. I copied this from the DES website.

The role of Fire Services is to support each of these departments with their fire training, education, fire safety and assist them with mutual aid at major alarm fires. Each fire department is unique in their structure and operation.

Battalion 13 - [Deputy Fire Coordinator Gary Weber]

Croton Falls - 207

Goldens Bridge - 214

Pound Ridge - 240

Somers - 244

South Salem - 245

Vista - 256

Edited June 3, 2008 by EJS1810

[TCD0415 26]

I think you nailed it Ed. They used to be called "County Coordinators" a while back, with each coordinator assigned to a predesignated area.

Possibly the County Coordinator title was somewhat misleading as they were not really coordinating the entire county, but just a part of it, hence the name change to Battalion Coordinator.

[JM15 386]

I have always been curious as to how the zones are set up. Anybody know the reasoning behind it. I assumed that it went by frequent mutual aid requests and location. If you look at Batt. 13 and Somers for example. Somers is pretty far mutual aid wise from Vista and Pound Ridge. Or is mutual aid not figured into the zoning?

[DOC22 1]

I think you nailed it Ed. They used to be called "County Coordinators" a while back, with each coordinator assigned to a predesignated area.

Possibly the County Coordinator title was somewhat misleading as they were not really coordinating the entire county, but just a part of it, hence the name change to Battalion Coordinator.

Actually, they were called Deputy Coordinators, with the Coordinator at the top. Now as EJS1810 stated they are known as Battalion Coordinators, each one covering a given area. As to how this was set up. I really can't answer that one. They are at major incidents to assist the Incident Commander in procuring whatever resources are needed at any time during the incident.

[Remember585 815]

Let me see if I can elaborate on the system and calrify some things.

There are 10 "Battalions" or "Zones" in Westchester County.

The "Battalion" is a Deputy Coordinator, not a Chief.

As far as how they are laid out geographically, I really don't have an answer. It isn't based on "who goes to who most," because if it was, we would be in the same Battalion as Ossining (I would think).

I believe that Deputy Commissioner Jackson (Car 2) is the County Fire Coordinator, as recognized by NYS OFPC. Our Battalions are Deputy Coordinators who work under him. Their responsibilities include (but are not limited to) coordination of resources at major incidents, coordinating training within their zones, being a point of contact between agencies and DES, and assisting each agency in as many ways as they can.

VACguy had a point where the Battalions should be knowledgeable of the resources not only in their zone, but neighboring zones and elsewhere. Most of the Battalions in Westchester do an excellent job of knowing their role and not overstepping their boundaries.

The way I look at it as a Chief is simple. If I have a structure fire, we have several alarm levels already programmed into 60 Control's CAD which will automatically send us what we want without having to ask for each specific resource. Other incidents (like large brush fires, Haz-Mat, etc.) where we need several resources, the Battalion can offer his knowledge and coordinate those resources while communicating with our IC. This leaves the IC to run the incident, and allows the Deputy Coordinator to cover all the other bases for you.

The key, which I feel most people "get" is communication. And again, most of the Coordinators seem to do this very well and most Chiefs are recpetive to this, thus making most incidents run smoothly.

Hope that helps a bit.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I thought that the Coordinator had the power and authority to get you whatever you wanted when you wanted?

But what about when they are not needed like a simple car or chimney fire...I have seen BC's respond to minor incidents like these, while they have not assumed a command or BC role they still roll to the call. Is this normal/useful?

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

X635. The Battalion Chief IS the Deputy Coordinator. They are still titled Deputy Coordinator, but their response area has been labled "battalion" now. The Deputy's are working 24/7/365 at times, just like in career service, you will have DC's overlap or cover for one another. The reason for the battalions is just to show what DC covers where. Several other counties like on Long Island use the battalion system as well. I don't know if they have Deputy Coordinators or what their titles are out there. But we are not the first.

[Bnechis 3,961]

while Dept Chiefs may not be so knowledgable. I'm not putting any chief down, but face it, not all chiefs are elected for the right reasons.

Not all chiefs are elected. In Westchester more than 50% of the population (504,000 out of 940,807) live in communities with career chiefs. At a minimum, they must pass exams to become a chief.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I feel that the County should invest more energy and money into the Battalion program, it should be a full time spot 24/7/365, and they should be given power over mutual aid control, etc. Otherwise, just make them Scene Liasons or something.

How much more money? If you want the 10 coordinators to be full time, then lets say it will cost $60,000 plus benifits. Thats another Million Dollars per year. I think the tax payers would not believe it would improve things enough to cover this kind of spending increase.

When you say power over mutual aid, what do you mean? Give them the authority to decide who goes where? That would violate every concept of ICS. Its up to the IC. The Coordinator is a liason, thats the roll. If done well its a major help to the IC.

Also, I feel departments should invest more in their Battalions, and play more of a role, such as a Task-force type concept in each battalion, so that there can be a mutual aid response without stripping an entire area, especially during weekday hours.

If they need to call MA for every one room fire, then maybe yes they should.

[ex-commish 490]

In my experineces the system has worked well. It was kinda nice having someone to reach out and get resources so I could handle the incident. As far as hiring full time D/C's I don't see the necessity but perhaps raising the stipends for the coordinators we have now for the time they put in which I feel would be well deserved. I don't think the taxpayers want to see any more county jobs created when many in the county want county government abolished.

[Bnechis 3,961]

As far as hiring full time D/C's I don't see the necessity but perhaps raising the stipends for the coordinators we have now for the time they put in which I feel would be well deserved.

Thats fair. maybe the stipend plus an hourly.

Many do far more than they are compensated.

[DaRock98 76]

What do they make now? I think I heard like $2400 a year is that right or in the ballpark??

[Remember585 815]

Personally I think Battalion 18 should catch a paycheck from Mount Vernon!!!

[Oswegowind 17]

They can't afford him!

[FirNaTine 370]

To be quite honest with you, I personally don't see a need for any of the Battalions. No offense but what do they bring to the table? Liason between a Dept. and 60 control? Depts. that are already dispatched by 60 can contact them directly and those that aren't can have their individual dispatchers contact them by phone or radio. It's not as if their participating in planning an incident's Strategy and Tactics. This is, or at least should be, left up to a Dept's. IC and his fellow Officers. JMO.

[x648eng119 2]

To cover what someone else said about sending the Coordinators on minor fires where they may not be needed, it was the policy, and I'm sure it still is, whenever a department went mutual aid for another department, no matter what it is for, a B.C. is to be notified. It then falls on the B.C. as to whether or not they will respond.

A hypothetical example:

Say Department A has a daytime call for something as minor as wires down, but they are going to be tied up for a while for whatever reason. They relocate Department B to their HQ just for a standby. The B.C. for that zone must be notified. If that B.C. can't be reached, they go to the secondary, so on and so on. Once a B.C. is reached, they decide whether or not to respond.

Also if I remember correctly, this doesn't apply to MOST dual responses.

Edited June 4, 2008 by x648eng119

[firecapt32 282]

The Battalion Coordiniator is notified when a fire department in their zone has requested mutual aid. They are required to respond if the mutual aid "goes to work". The job of the coordiniator is to assist the IC-let them know what m/a they have in town-let them know what resources are avaiable and from where--ask the IC what recources they need and where they should go-- the Coordiniator is the link to the County and the mtual aid system. The coordiniator reports into the IC at the command post and remians in constant contact witih 60 control. The system is working pretty well.

[TimesUp 148]

Where I work The Deputy Chief Is the IC and if he needs mutual aid his aid will notify our dispatchers who will contact 60 control. 60 control has our mutual aid list. Its important that our dispatchers know who's coming and where their going incase another alarm comes in.

There's been times when the dispatchers have been left out of the loop by a coordinator. Our dispatchers then sent mutual aid company's on calls when they were already sent to the fire scene without them knowing, causing confusion and a delay. For example the dispatchers would have mutual aid in town to cover a firehouse. Then they get re-routed to the scene by someone else. The dispatchers thinking their available send them to another call. They don't respond.

The system works great for some departments, It seems to add some confusion where I work and might need to be re-thought as to how the battalion can best assist.

No matter what I've experienced I know the intentions of the Battalion coord. are to always help the best they can.

[Raz 14]

To be quite honest with you, I personally don't see a need for any of the Battalions. No offense but what do they bring to the table? Liason between a Dept. and 60 control? Depts. that are already dispatched by 60 can contact them directly and those that aren't can have their individual dispatchers contact them by phone or radio. It's not as if their participating in planning an incident's Strategy and Tactics. This is, or at least should be, left up to a Dept's. IC and his fellow Officers. JMO.

I'm inclined to agree. Any competant IC should be able to handle calling in mutual aid, while still running the scene. Hell, calling in mutual aid is part of running a scene, there shouldn't be a division between the two. If you're doing all the things you should be doing (Checking for hazards, delegating properly, keeping a managable scope of command), then is it really that hard to get on the radio and say "give me so and so's ladder to the rear of the structure"?

Of course, if you're doing the things you shouldn't be doing (playing firefighter, not giving orders at all or trying to command every single person on the scene), then you might need a coordinator. Of course, if you're doing those things as an IC, you'll need a lot more help than just a coordinator.

Maybe I just have a lot of faith in the dispatchers at 60 control, but I don't think calling in mutual aid is this huge burden that needs to be taken off of them and shored up by a part time county car. 60's dispatchers have proven themselves more than capable of handling the worst conditions.

[Remember585 815]

I think it's safe to say you can relate a Westchester County Battalion to a Resource Unit Leader at an FDNY scene. They help organize and coordinate resources so the IC can handle the actual incident.

[CAM502 6]

Where I work The Deputy Chief Is the IC and if he needs mutual aid his aid will notify our dispatchers who will contact 60 control. 60 control has our mutual aid list. Its important that our dispatchers know who's coming and where their going incase another alarm comes in.

There's been times when the dispatchers have been left out of the loop by a coordinator. Our dispatchers then sent mutual aid company's on calls when they were already sent to the fire scene without them knowing, causing confusion and a delay. For example the dispatchers would have mutual aid in town to cover a firehouse. Then they get re-routed to the scene by someone else. The dispatchers thinking their available send them to another call. They don't respond.

The system works great for some departments, It seems to add some confusion where I work and might need to be re-thought as to how the battalion can best assist.

No matter what I've experienced I know the intentions of the Battalion coord. are to always help the best they can.

Took the words out of my mouth LT!!!! Man did that mess us up.....