What determines STAT flight request

[americanpolice 24]

I was just curious, what determines if a request is to be made for a STAT flight? Many times I see ambulance/EMS on scene of accidents on or close to the Sprain and other highways that are a quick 10-15 min ride to the medical center. If you factor in the time for the helicopter to arrive, cordoning off the area, embark etc I would think you could get to the hospital by ambulance by then.

[jack10562 414]

This is a legitimate question.....

STAT short for stabilization, treatment and transport, Flight

...any severe injury or illness, including heart attack and stroke, penetrating wounds, multiple fractures, head injury, blunt trauma, limb detachment, falls, near drownings, burns and smoke inhalation, qualifies.

In addition to medivac helicopters, STAT flight provides ground mobile intensive care ambulances.

[TAPSJ 30]

Why Fight Traffic, Red Lights, And Possible Other MVA's In Your Way. When You Can Fly Them. They Could Go Ten Min. Down The Road Or Up To 50 Min. Also, Sometimes They Are Gonna Go Somewhere Farther Away. But Alot Of Times They Fly Them To One Hospital Stabilize Them, Then Fly Them Somewhere Else. I Always Heard A Saying, "When In Doubt, Fly Them Out." (Also, This Is A Saying That I Have Heard, Not Saying I Follow It, But If Need I Would.) Because We Don't Have The Machines That Hospitals Have, So We Can Only Guess. Also, I Believe It Was In Millerton A Few Weeks Ago, A Stabbing. The People Were Brought To Sharon Hospital, CT, I Believe Stabilized And Then Flown To St. Francis Hospital, NY. Also As A Chief Officer Or A Medic If You Think You Need One At Least Put It On Stand By, Because It Is One Step Closer To Saving A Persons Life And I Think That Is What We Are All Here To Do.

Thomas

[Guest CRASH]

Why Fight Traffic, Red Lights, And Possiable Other MVA's In Your Way. When You Can Fly Them. They Could Go Ten Min. Down The Road Or Up To 50 Min. Also, Sometimes They Are Gonna Go Somewhere Farther Away. But Alot Of Times They Fly Them To One Hospital Stabilize Them, Then Fly Them Somewhere Else. I Always Heard A Saying, "When In Doubt, Fly Them Out." (Also, This Is A Saying That I Have Heard, Not Saying I Follow It, But If Need I Would.) Because We Don't Have The Machines That Hospitals Have, So We Can Only Guess. Also, I Believe It Was In Millerton A Few Weeks Ago, A Stabbing. The People Were Brought To Sharon Hospital, CT, I Believe Stabilized And Then Flown To St. Francis Hospital, NY. Also As A Chief Officer Or A Medic If You Think You Need One At Least Put It On Stand By, Because It Is One Step Closer To Saving A Persons Life And I Think That Is What We Are All Here To Do.

Thomas

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GREAT QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.

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.bottom line is its up to the EMT/MEDIC/ or IC to decide but on a bad enough pi/mva pd can put the bird on standby prior to ems arrival.

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depending if extication is required stat flight is a mobile emergency room they can sedate a pt. if needed they can be brought to the scene if time permits the crew of the bird can do sooooooo much more in transit than we can do on the back of a bus

[americanpolice 24]

thank you all. u gave me some good answers that i had not previously known. i had always seen stat flight as just another method of transportation but it seems like its a much quicker way to access ER quality care.

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GREAT QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.

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.bottom line is its up to the EMT/MEDIC/ or IC to decide but on a bad enough pi/mva pd can put the bird on standby prior to ems arrival.

.

depending if extication is required stat flight is a mobile emergency room they can sedate a pt. if needed they can be brought to the scene if time permits the crew of the bird can do sooooooo much more in transit than we can do on the back of a bus

[DaRock98 76]

Are the STAT flight medics trained to the level of the ALS medics on the ground or higher?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

bottom line is its up to the EMT/MEDIC/ or IC to decide but on a bad enough pi/mva pd can put the bird on standby prior to ems arrival.

depending if extication is required stat flight is a mobile emergency room they can sedate a pt. if needed they can be brought to the scene if time permits the crew of the bird can do sooooooo much more in transit than we can do on the back of a bus

Crash...I asked this same question of you in another forum where air ambulance services was the topic. What it is that you feel happens in a helicopter that doesn't/can't occur in a GROUND ambulance? There is sooooo much that cannot be done in the back of the AIR ambulance because of the restricted space. Air ambulances are designed to reduce transport times (which will be discussed in paragraph 3 to the orignal quesiton and another comment) for outlying areas far from regional trauma centers.

The bottom line is the decision comes down to the highest medical authority at the scene. I've had "IC's" pull up, mark on scene and launch helicopters without making patient contact. Waste of resources and money.

http://www.wremsco.org/REMAC_PROTOCOL_DOCs...dB(pg76-85).pdf

This is the Helicopter criteria for Westchester. As I was discussing above...Item number 1 in the protocol of appendix B states:

"Helicopter Transport is an air ambulance and an extension of EMS. It should be considered in situations wherein the transport of critically ill or injured patient(s) to an appropriate facility will be faster by helicopter than by ground ambulance if time is determined to be a factor in patient care."

It is also based on physical findings that are in the protocol to guide the provider into making the decision.

Many times I see ambulance/EMS on scene of accidents on or close to the Sprain and other highways that are a quick 10-15 min ride to the medical center. If you factor in the time for the helicopter to arrive, cordoning off the area, embark etc I would think you could get to the hospital by ambulance by then

Often it is quicker by ground...even if they are entrapped. You have to keep in mind that you have to call, the pilot has to get weather, get the coordinates, if it isn't running, start up procedures, lift off, flight time, touchdown, load the patient, lift off, touch down again, remove the patient to a hospital stretcher and then into the medical center.

i had always seen stat flight as just another method of transportation but it seems like its a much quicker way to access ER quality care.

As I pointed out above, in the right cases, when used appropriately it is quicker. I'd be interested outside of conversations with good friends of mine that work at STAT (sorry I will always call them that), what percentage of fly outs are deemed not necessary

Why Fight Traffic, Red Lights, And Possiable Other MVA's In Your Way. When You Can Fly Them. They Could Go Ten Min. Down The Road Or Up To 50 Min. Also, Sometimes They Are Gonna Go Somewhere Farther Away. But Alot Of Times They Fly Them To One Hospital Stabilize Them, Then Fly Them Somewhere Else. I Always Heard A Saying, "When In Doubt, Fly Them Out." (Also, This Is A Saying That I Have Heard, Not Saying I Follow It, But If Need I Would.) Because We Don't Have The Machines That Hospitals Have, So We Can Only Guess.

TRAFFIC...has nothing to do with making a decision for a helicopter, nor does red lights. If you are greater then 30 minutes away it is a plus...depending on which aircraft you are going to get...its important to listen to what the ETA is so you don't end up waiting for a further aircraft thinking you are going to get one in minutes. This is one of the reasons why I like to make the call for an air ambulance if I am on scene and then notify the fire IC to come up with an LZ. I want to ensure I get the ETA.

Also while we have no machines..good Paramedics do not guess. We make decisions on patient status and future treatment needs based on observations and assessments. The if in doubt fly them out comment never has made sense to me and is one that I often discuss when teaching trauma or doing a CME topic. If in doubt then get them to the appropriate facility, if air transport is warranted it is warranted, look at the scene and the biggest thing is ASSESS your patient. MOI is not the single factor to make the decision even though it is the most common that guides providers in making a decision that costs a patient $3000 for a nice view and a simple discharge home in 8 hours.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Also As A Chief Officer Or A Medic If You Think You Need One At Least Put It On Stand By, Because It Is One Step Closer To Saving A Persons Life And I Think That Is What We Are All Here To Do.

Thomas

Why put it on standby?? It was my understanding that the flight crew would rather be on the way, and I personally agree, knowing that they are already halfway there, and can be canceled, rather than have to have them warm up the craft, and then take off, losing precious minutes already.

As I did say though, it is my understanding, they either do not, or just don't like to "go on standby".

Are the STAT flight medics trained to the level of the ALS medics on the ground or higher?

http://www.lifenetny.com/Careers.php

Here are the requirements from LifeNet's website, and there are more on the link provided.

What are LifeNet of New York’s requirements for Paramedics?

Required:

Education:

-High School Diploma

Experience:

-Minimum three years experience in a busy 911 system

-Licenses & Certificates:

-Registered EMT-P licensed in state(s) served

-National Certification may be required to meet state licensure requirements

-Specialty certification: FP-C is required within three years of hire

Current certifications in BLS/CPR; ACLS; BTLS or PHTLS; and PALS or equivalent

Advance trauma course: auditing of (1) of the following is acceptable TNCC, ATLS, or TNATC within 6 months of hire (Please note a skills lab must accompany all of the above-mentioned advanced trauma courses)

NRP if program provides high-risk OB and/or neonatal transports within 6 months of hire

Preferred:

Education:

-Bachelor’s degree in health-related field

Experience:

-Previous critical care transport experience

-Flight Experience

[smwells 7]

In most cases if you are operating within range of a major highway in Westchester, Putnam or Southern Dutchess, you are probably going to get the pt to WCMC as quickly or quicker than by air.

$3000 for a nice view and a simple discharge home in 8 hours.

The view may be nice, but with the current fuel costs it is probably $6-8000 these days. Make sure it is warranted, I have heard of insurance companies bouncing the expense as unneeded, leaving your pt with a pain in the neck/back and wallet.

None of the area helicopters will ever complaint that they were placed on standby and cancelled. Get the crew together while enroute to the scene if needed, make the decison to launch when you have a full picture.

[ny10570 745]

I'm really glad this thread has come up, especially in light of the recent flight out of Yonkers. No more than 15 minutes from Jacobi, 20 to Harlem or Lincoln and 25 to WMC. They could have been pulling up to the ER before the helicopter was off the ground.

The last three posts all ready covered this pretty thoroughly, but wanted to add, if you're so worried about the chances of an accident or traffic via ground, what about the chance of stat flight not arriving safely. You can throw all sorts of what ifs out there, but when something goes wrong in the air it goes wrong very badly.

[Guest CRASH]

I'm really glad this thread has come up, especially in light of the recent flight out of Yonkers. No more than 15 minutes from Jacobi, 20 to Harlem or Lincoln and 25 to WMC. They could have been pulling up to the ER before the helicopter was off the ground.

The last three posts all ready covered this pretty thoroughly, but wanted to add, if you're so worried about the chances of an accident or traffic via ground, what about the chance of stat flight not arriving safely. You can throw all sorts of what ifs out there, but when something goes wrong in the air it goes wrong very badly.

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.ALL GREAT ANSWERS YET AGAIN.

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I'm an EMT less than a year. I haven't had to call them in yet. I have been on scenes where it has been needed, and wasn't time appropriate due to cold starts and delayed eta's, but i would rather have the bird ready and turn them around than to have to wait it out.

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rule # 1 i believe when calling in the bird is you should never wait for the bird. It should be @ the LZ waiting for you , and if so the extra hands of higher trained medical service than i can provide are more than welcomed. Yes the fuel costs, the billing , the insurance headaches , if somehow it gives you 10 seconds of a much needed shrink in transport time and care its worth it all.

[TAPSJ 30]

This whole billing thing, if you call a helicopter and it comes to the landing zone and it is decided that they can't fly the patient or what have you. Is thier a bill??? Because if the transport yes thier is a bill, but if the don't do anything. Anyone out thier know???

Thomas

[helicopper 1,050]

Why Fight Traffic, Red Lights, And Possible Other MVA's In Your Way. When You Can Fly Them. They Could Go Ten Min. Down The Road Or Up To 50 Min. Also, Sometimes They Are Gonna Go Somewhere Farther Away. But Alot Of Times They Fly Them To One Hospital Stabilize Them, Then Fly Them Somewhere Else. I Always Heard A Saying, "When In Doubt, Fly Them Out." (Also, This Is A Saying That I Have Heard, Not Saying I Follow It, But If Need I Would.) Because We Don't Have The Machines That Hospitals Have, So We Can Only Guess. Also, I Believe It Was In Millerton A Few Weeks Ago, A Stabbing. The People Were Brought To Sharon Hospital, CT, I Believe Stabilized And Then Flown To St. Francis Hospital, NY. Also As A Chief Officer Or A Medic If You Think You Need One At Least Put It On Stand By, Because It Is One Step Closer To Saving A Persons Life And I Think That Is What We Are All Here To Do.

Thomas

Sorry TAPS but I have to agree with ALSfirefighter. Traffic, red lights, and the "possible" accidents that you cite are no reason to request air transportation. We fight traffic every day because that's part of the job. This decision should be based on the patient's condiction and a risk/benefit analysis of ground transport to a local hospital vs. air transport to a trauma center. The sole reason for using an air ambulance (and that's all it is by the way) is to more expeditiously get a serious/critical patient to an appropriate medical facility. If you are 15-20 minutes by ground from St. Francis (an area trauma center right?), you can be there before the helicopter can transport regardless of stand-by requests prior to response requests. It takes time to launch, respond, land, contact the patient, initiate treatment, package for transport, load, take off, fly back and unload. As NY10570 also points out, Yonkers is less than 30 minutes from several different trauma centers so time is not a compelling factor in requesting a helicopter there.

There was a time when on-scene times were exceptionally long further calling into question the efficacy of air transport over ground.

I bet the bill is also substantially more than $3000 too and that is an issue your patient will have to face later. As for the view, they're only seeing the roof of the cabin so it ain't much!

As for doing substantially more in the back of the aircraft versus the back of ambulance, the flight crew may be qualified to do more but the reality is that during flight they are severely limited - in access, in mobility, and in space. This is probably why they used to spend so much time on scene prior to taking off.

I said it the last time this topic came up and I'll say it again. EVERY air transport should be closely reviewed for appropriateness in an objective QI/QA program and those individuals or agencies that are abusing the resource should be better educated. You know that I think helicopters are awesome (obviously) but there's a time and a place for them. There is a substantial risk inherent to air travel and putting an aircraft up when not warranted is an unncessary liability. If a patient transported by air is discharged the same or next day with no trauma a poor triage/transport decision was made.

We are all here to save lives but we also have to be advocates for the patient and professional providers who do what's in the best interest of their patient. The vehicle by which you transport is seldom the determining factor in whether or not you did in fact save a life. Your assessment, appropriate treatment, and safe expeditious transport to the right facility is what saves the life! There's very little guesswork involved in that process; the assessment provides insight into the injuries and a informed decision is made. I didn't "guess" I need to fly a patient out.

The saying "when in doubt, fly 'em out" makes great t-shirts but it is not a substitute for the medical decision making process.

If the helicopter flies but doesn't transport a patient I don't believe there is any bill but I'm not 100% certain. If the State Police transport there's no bill at all - we as taxpayers subsidize that flight so I hope it was justified.

[helicopper 1,050]

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.ALL GREAT ANSWERS YET AGAIN.

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I'm an EMT less than a year. I haven't had to call them in yet. I have been on scenes where it has been needed, and wasn't time appropriate due to cold starts and delayed eta's, but i would rather have the bird ready and turn them around than to have to wait it out.

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rule # 1 i believe when calling in the bird is you should never wait for the bird. It should be @ the LZ waiting for you , and if so the extra hands of higher trained medical service than i can provide are more than welcomed. Yes the fuel costs, the billing , the insurance headaches , if somehow it gives you 10 seconds of a much needed shrink in transport time and care its worth it all.

Crash, I'll agree with you that you should never wait for the helicopter instead of initiating ground transport but saving 10 seconds will not make a bit of difference in the patient's outcome. Saving 10 minutes, MAYBE! But I suspect that's still the minority of calls where time makes such a dramatic difference. TREATMENT is the key.

[ny10570 745]

Just like when an ambulance shows up but doesn't transport the helicopter can't bill. Billing is only for services provided.

[TAPSJ 30]

Just to clear things up. I am not saying because thier is traffic, call a helicopter. I am saying time factor. If you are 30 min. from a Truma Center and have an extensive time to get to the patient, if thier stuck in a car or down a hill, and injuries are thier then yes call them. Yes you can drive 30 min. to the hospital. Yes you can wait 30 min. for a helicopter, but the decision is the IC or Medic on scene. Sometimes you can get thier quicker by ground and sometime by air. It all depends on the call. I have heard calls that have shut down a major road for a helicopter before anyone got on scene and it turned out to be an RMA. It happens. We all make mistakes.

Thomas

[MFVFD179 0]

We actually just had a STAT Flight Seminar at my firehouse last night. STAT Flight Air 1 landed at the department and let us view the helicopter as well as a powerpoint presentation explaining what they do and when it is nice to utilize them. They mentioned to use them to reduce the time to a hospital or in an MCI (this is great as you can send a patient to a farther hospital so the closest hospitals don't get overloaded).

As a question was asked about billing, the patient is not billed if they are not flown. So that means if placed on stand by, no patient is billed. If placed at the landing zone and transported by ambulance and not by STAT, patient is not billed.

They also stressed a few points. One being apparatus lights (flashing and scene). They said it is easier to see the landing zone at night when it is lit up (lights towards the ground, not sky). Also, strobes from the fire apparatus does help from a distance as it may be hard to see around a tree from their angle. In this case, they see the strobe and know where to go.

Another point stressed was to keep the landing zone available for about three (3) minutes after departure in case of a failure in the helicopter. This is so they have a place to land in an emergency.

Once last point was about powerlines and the like. If you have any slight thought it may be a problem or in the way, they want to know about it. Knowing about it and staying away from it is better than not knowing it and coming too close, or even hitting it.

[DaRock98 76]

Would the STAT flight crew ever refuse a transport if they feel it is unnecessary and the PT is stable enough to be transported by ground after their assessment?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

CRASH, I think I got where your coming from with some of your comments concerning the medevac. Good 2nd post.

but the decision is the IC or Medic on scene.

Just to clarify one topic that keeps coming up about the IC calling for medevac. Once a medically trained provider arrives on scene they are supposed (and should!) make a assessment and determine if the needs still exists and if not cancel the medevac.

Another point about LZ's is they will tell you not to pull handlines. In the event of a critical failure the pilot is going to attempt to put that thing down as far away from any additional casualty possibilities.

[Remember585 815]

Everyone needs to stop speculating, assuming and guessing as to the uses / procedures of STATFlight / LifeNet.

Bottom Line - HAVE THEM COME AND EDUCATE YOUR ORGANIZATIONS!!!!!

We have hosted them 4 or 5 times in the last 15 years or so. They are the most inept on how they operate, because THAT'S THEIR JOB!

ANYONE CAN REQUEST MEDIVAC. Whether it is PD, FD, CFR, EMT or MEDIC.

From what I know during training and from the nearly 2 years I worked there, they prefer to be put on standby if you think you'll need them. It gives them time to get out to the bird, warm it up, check their stuff and plot it out on the maps, etc. This can take MINUTES - so if you know you're 15+ minutes out from WMC and/or you're looking at an incident with a prolonged disentanglement / extrication - you may want to consider that chopper.

As a side note - if you wait too long to call, and your patient is already in the bus - go! Don't wait if you think you can make it to WMC before they show up. That's just defeating the purpose.

REMEMBER - CALL THEM AND ARRANGE THE TRAINING - IT IS WELL WORTH IT!

[helicopper 1,050]

We actually just had a STAT Flight Seminar at my firehouse last night. STAT Flight Air 1 landed at the department and let us view the helicopter as well as a powerpoint presentation explaining what they do and when it is nice to utilize them. They mentioned to use them to reduce the time to a hospital or in an MCI (this is great as you can send a patient to a farther hospital so the closest hospitals don't get overloaded).

As a question was asked about billing, the patient is not billed if they are not flown. So that means if placed on stand by, no patient is billed. If placed at the landing zone and transported by ambulance and not by STAT, patient is not billed.

They also stressed a few points. One being apparatus lights (flashing and scene). They said it is easier to see the landing zone at night when it is lit up (lights towards the ground, not sky). Also, strobes from the fire apparatus does help from a distance as it may be hard to see around a tree from their angle. In this case, they see the strobe and know where to go.

Another point stressed was to keep the landing zone available for about three (3) minutes after departure in case of a failure in the helicopter. This is so they have a place to land in an emergency.

Once last point was about powerlines and the like. If you have any slight thought it may be a problem or in the way, they want to know about it. Knowing about it and staying away from it is better than not knowing it and coming too close, or even hitting it.

Did they also say that once the aircraft has identified the landing zone and is coming in to land all flashing/rotating lights should be turned off (especially alternating headlights aimed directly into the LZ)? Strobes and the newest generation of LED's can be very disorienting and the last thing you want is a pilot getting disoriented as he's putting the helicopter on the ground. The alternating headlights are generally right at the pilot's eye level, that's why they should be off.

[firemoose827 324]

Crash, I'll agree with you that you should never wait for the helicopter instead of initiating ground transport but saving 10 seconds will not make a bit of difference in the patient's outcome. Saving 10 minutes, MAYBE! But I suspect that's still the minority of calls where time makes such a dramatic difference. TREATMENT is the key.

Thats one thing that burns me, is when someone WAITS for the bird to land, sometimes in excess of 15-20 minutes!!! Where I am from, in an extremely rural area with lengthly transport times to local trauma centers it is a frequent thing to have the bird flown, but It has also been abused way too much.

I have seen an ambulance arrive on scene of a one car rollover with the car on fire, but the patient had self-extricated and had a fractured knee, arm, and ribs and was in the back of the ambulance literally as they were pulling in to the scene but they still waited 25 minutes for the bird to land!! I was FURIOUS, when the bird landed they climbed in the ambulance and were another 15 minutes establishing any of their treatments and packaging the patient before they were finaly in the air and headed towards Albany Med with a 10 minute fly time....By ground on a good day without lights and sirens it takes us 40 minutes ground time to the Med...The ambulance could have been at the ED with the patient evaluated and prepped for surgery by the time the bird even landed. Its just the mind set of "Trauma has to be flown out" around here that gets me sick. Or the occasional EMT That is unsure of their skills that absolutely refuses to call off the bird and wants them to take over patient care so they dont have the responsibility themselves.

Would the STAT flight crew ever refuse a transport if they feel it is unnecessary and the PT is stable enough to be transported by ground after their assessment?

When I attended the Life Flight training put on by the local flight crews they were very knowledgeable and helpful. They explained to us that they could even be used as an ALS Link up for ground transportation if no other medics were available, and that chances are if we, as trained EMT's, felt there was a need for the transport they would take the patient every time and there was never a case of an air crew landing and refusing to take the patient. But, there could be other experiences I am not aware of. Best thing to do is follow what others have said already and have the flight crews in your area come out to your house and give the training. They are always willing to do it and its a great training to have.

[weaselff 6]

The reliance on stat flight in Westchester is alarming to say the least. Anyone who has ever worked EMS in the city knows that stuff that is medvaced in the burbs is routinely transported BLS to the ER. There is no place in Westchester that is more than 20 to 25 minutes to a trauma center with a decent driver, ok maybe some back roads out in Pound Ridge might be 30 minutes. These travel times in my opinionion are not criteria for a medevac. You could load and go in the time it takes the bird to get in the air. There is absolutely nothing that is going to happen in the chopper that cant happen in an ambulance. I swear some IC's think the statflight crew is performing some kind of powerful witchcraft up there in the sky. The only time in Westchester that a medevac should be called is maybe when there is some kind of extended extrication in one of the farther flung locales ie. Pound Ridge, North Salem, etc. It should not be called for GSW's, stabbings, ped strucks, amp maj/min or jumper downs. These can all be transported by ambulance. I know blood is scary and gross, but it kinda comes with the territory. Lets save the bird for places in Orange, Sullivan, Dutchess etc that actually have legit trauma center transport time problems.

As for why medevacs are called in Westchester:

1. IC's that are inexperienced and afraid, my favorite heard from a reliable source, stat flight being called for a DOA. It would almost be funny if it didn't cost thousands of dollars and put the crew at risk.

2. IC's that want to keep their buses and medics in service. This is a crap reason to call for a bird, thats what mutual aid is for. Hell most agencies rely on it almost all the time anyway.

3. What I call the "Platoon Factor". It looks * cool and kind of adds an adrenaline rush. I will agree I have seen stat flight a few times and it is an awe inspring sight. Still an awe inspiring sight that costs tens of thousands of dollars.

[MFVFD179 0]

Did they also say that once the aircraft has identified the landing zone and is coming in to land all flashing/rotating lights should be turned off (especially alternating headlights aimed directly into the LZ)? Strobes and the newest generation of LED's can be very disorienting and the last thing you want is a pilot getting disoriented as he's putting the helicopter on the ground. The alternating headlights are generally right at the pilot's eye level, that's why they should be off.

Great question. The pilot told us to light up the landing zone as much as possible to make it easier to see. Simple enough. The pilots are not shy; if there are ANY problems with the lighting, he will contact the ground and tell them what to turn off (i.e. strobes, LED's, or what have you).

As for immediate obstructions in the way that the pilot may not see, they asked us to follow a simple procedure. They want to hear "STOP". followed by the obstructing item, (powerline, tree, etc.). When you say stop, they will literally stop the helicopter right where it is and will wait until you complete you message so they know what they are facing.

It is never wrong to put a Medevac on standby if you have any thoughts that you might utilize it. It may be very beneficial for a department to do so as any department farther than 25mi (birds eye) radius from the helicopter is an automatic launch to reduce the time of arrival. Any call within a 25mi radius will put the crew in the helicopter with the blades spinning. They said that when you call them, they will almost instantly lift off (that is how you save time by putting them on standby). Don't forget, if you don't need the bird, you can always cancel it.

As Remember585 mentioned, if you wait too long to call for the helicopter, it may be too late and may only slow down the process to get the patient to the hospital. At that point the only choice you have is to take the patient by ambulance.

[weaselff 6]

I have heard calls that have shut down a major road for a helicopter before anyone got on scene and it turned out to be an RMA. It happens. We all make mistakes.

Thomas

Thats a pretty big * mistake. In addition to the thousands of dollars it takes to put a chopper in the air, the IC put the flight crew and anyone who lives along the route in the densely populated Hudon Valley region at risk. Helicopters are probably the most dangerous form of transportation. They are not aerodynamic like airplanes, they cant just glide to next airport or highway and land when they have mechanical problems. When a helicopter breaks down in mid air, it becomes a rock. If you've been to 8th rade physics, you know what happens next.

[WAS967 97]

One plus to the BK117s that StatFlight Uses/Used is that they have dual engines. If one fails you at least have a backup. Many birds do not.

Question for the rotor wing pilots on here: If there training in pilot school for helos like there is for fixed wings on things like stalls and putting her down when the engine dies? How hard is it to do? I can't imagine it being a fun experience.

[ny10570 745]

Does anyone have a plan where they can meet LifeNet at some point between their community and WMC so in places like E. Fishkill where flying is faster you don't wind up waiting at the LZ for 18 minutes?

[helicopper 1,050]

One plus to the BK117s that StatFlight Uses/Used is that they have dual engines. If one fails you at least have a backup. Many birds do not.

Question for the rotor wing pilots on here: If there training in pilot school for helos like there is for fixed wings on things like stalls and putting her down when the engine dies? How hard is it to do? I can't imagine it being a fun experience.

Helicopters are probably the most dangerous form of transportation. They are not aerodynamic like airplanes, they cant just glide to next airport or highway and land when they have mechanical problems. When a helicopter breaks down in mid air, it becomes a rock. If you've been to 8th rade physics, you know what happens next.

Personally, I would say that bike messengers are the most dangerous form of transportation...

Helicopters do not become rocks when the engine quits but they're certainly not gliders either. The aerodynamics change when the engine quits and in the very simplest of terms (since I'm not an aerodynamicist) the flow of air reverses providing very limited lift allowing the copter to be landed wherever it may be. Most small helicopters out there are single engine and will have to autorotate if the engine quits. Twin engine aircraft like the BK-117 or EC-135 that STAT/Life-Net use have two engines but when one quits they're not going to go too far before landing either.

As for practicing autorotations, that is one of the biggest parts of helicopter pilot training. Before receiving your license you have to demonstrate to the FAA that you can safely land by autorotation when the engine quits. As for fun, once you get the hang of them it's fun to practice but no, for real it can't be too much fun!

[xfirefighter484x 234]

They are not aerodynamic like airplanes, they cant just glide to next airport or highway and land when they have mechanical problems. When a helicopter breaks down in mid air, it becomes a rock. If you've been to 8th rade physics, you know what happens next.

Who says they are not aerodynamic?? They just do not hold the principles of fixed wing aircraft.

One plus to the BK117s that StatFlight Uses/Used is that they have dual engines. If one fails you at least have a backup. Many birds do not.

Question for the rotor wing pilots on here: If there training in pilot school for helos like there is for fixed wings on things like stalls and putting her down when the engine dies? How hard is it to do? I can't imagine it being a fun experience.

Haha, I wish I had noticed that Chris192 had already hit on the topic I was bringing up, so I didn't appear like a retard. For those of you who do not know what an autorotation is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autorotation_(helicopter)

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Good add on Nathan and Chris.

I unfortunately know all too well what autorotation feels like in real life. Records say "hard landing" for both times it appears in it. Those of us in the back called it a "crash." I'll still never forget the look on the crew chiefs face when he had 12 M-16 muzzles aimed at him when he didn't want to open the door right away to let us out.