Montrose- Boating Accident

[montrosefd 0]

Was just wondering if any montrose units responded or were even toned out i did not see any units from montrose on the list of units resopnding on the page this topic was posted on if any one has more info to add please do thanks

[helicopper 1,050]

Was just wondering if any montrose units responded or were even toned out i did not see any units from montrose on the list of units resopnding on the page this topic was posted on if any one has more info to add please do thanks

I'm not aware of an FD response by either Rockland or Westchester. Doesn't it mean there wasn't one; I'm just not aware of it. There were no boats on the water though if that helps.

[Remember585 815]

I'm not aware of an FD response by either Rockland or Westchester. Doesn't it mean there wasn't one; I'm just not aware of it. There were no boats on the water though if that helps.

Well, if it was north of Croton Point Park as originally dispatched, and found where it was, then my guess is that no FD response was made, considering our Marine unit was never dispatched.

What makes me kind of laugh is that WCPD goes above and beyond to make sure the Fire Departments around here are aware of their capabilities and ask that we think of them when we have a river incident, yet this one should of been a mutual response by PD, FD and maybe even EMS at a staging point.

Not that it's a big deal, but it's almost annoying that we keep being reminded that WCPD has marine units out there to "help us" and yet, when an incident comes up where it could of been helpful to have FD assistance, we're (Croton, Montrose, VA Montrose, Verplanck and even Rockland FD Units) are left in the dark.

[INIT915 1,119]

Well, if it was north of Croton Point Park as originally dispatched, and found where it was, then my guess is that no FD response was made, considering our Marine unit was never dispatched.

What makes me kind of laugh is that WCPD goes above and beyond to make sure the Fire Departments around here are aware of their capabilities and ask that we think of them when we have a river incident, yet this one should of been a mutual response by PD, FD and maybe even EMS at a staging point.

Not that it's a big deal, but it's almost annoying that we keep being reminded that WCPD has marine units out there to "help us" and yet, when an incident comes up where it could of been helpful to have FD assistance, we're (Croton, Montrose, VA Montrose, Verplanck and even Rockland FD Units) are left in the dark.

Was a FD response required. Or was the WCPD response adequate. If the situation was being handled by the WCPD units, why dispatch the FD?

On the other hand, was there more to the incident then is outlined in the IA? Was there some aspect where FD was needed?

[Oswegowind 17]

On another note, the WCPD Marine Units were actually in service, on the water, and operating. Possibly could have handled the situation before a non-dedicated marine unit could assemble, and get their boat in the water. There is a difference between on the air and available if called in.

[INIT915 1,119]

On another note, the WCPD Marine Units were actually in service, on the water, and operating. Possibly could have handled the situation before a non-dedicated marine unit could assemble, and get their boat in the water. There is a difference between on the air and available if called in.

That's a good point. In reality, should the FD be dispatched on every disabled vehicle and property-damage accident? Essentially that's all this call was, no?

If sufficient resources are attending to the incident, what could the rationale be for calling additional resources just for the sake of doing so?

[helicopper 1,050]

Well, if it was north of Croton Point Park as originally dispatched, and found where it was, then my guess is that no FD response was made, considering our Marine unit was never dispatched.

What makes me kind of laugh is that WCPD goes above and beyond to make sure the Fire Departments around here are aware of their capabilities and ask that we think of them when we have a river incident, yet this one should of been a mutual response by PD, FD and maybe even EMS at a staging point.

Not that it's a big deal, but it's almost annoying that we keep being reminded that WCPD has marine units out there to "help us" and yet, when an incident comes up where it could of been helpful to have FD assistance, we're (Croton, Montrose, VA Montrose, Verplanck and even Rockland FD Units) are left in the dark.

Just out of curiosity, why is Westchester PD getting flamed for this when the call came through Rockland County? The WCPD has tried to educate our fellow responders about our resources so when we're all out on the river together we operate collaboratively - what does that have to do with this call? It is pretty ridiculous to ignore boats (or a helicopter) that are already out there because they're part of the PD and not an FD resource. We were actually out flying one night when you guys were searching for a jumper off the Bear Mountain Bridge but had no idea and never got north of Croton. Had we known (or been part of a coordinated response) we could have provided an immediate large scale thermal imaging search and/or provided illumination to make your operations safer and possibly more efficient.

On another note, the WCPD Marine Units were actually in service, on the water, and operating. Possibly could have handled the situation before a non-dedicated marine unit could assemble, and get their boat in the water. There is a difference between on the air and available if called in.

Good point... Two boats were staffed and on the water, the Rockland County SO and Westchester County PD. In addition, the helicopter was already airborne and assisted in locating the vessel just to save time (and because I'll use any excuse to fly ) since the operator was severely map challenged - he didn't know where he was or that there was shallow water near the shore! .

That's a good point. In reality, should the FD be dispatched on every disabled vehicle and property-damage accident? Essentially that's all this call was, no?

If sufficient resources are attending to the incident, what could the rationale be for calling additional resources just for the sake of doing so?

Thanks! I was going to ask the very same question. This was nothing more than a bad disabled vehicle (albeit a boat) or a minor property damage accident. Why would that require an FD response? It only got an aviation response because we were flying already.

It is a good thing this happened early in the season so we can iron this out and all get on the same page before a real incident occurs on the river.

[Piranha174 37]

Well, if it was north of Croton Point Park as originally dispatched, and found where it was, then my guess is that no FD response was made, considering our Marine unit was never dispatched.

What makes me kind of laugh is that WCPD goes above and beyond to make sure the Fire Departments around here are aware of their capabilities and ask that we think of them when we have a river incident, yet this one should of been a mutual response by PD, FD and maybe even EMS at a staging point.

Not that it's a big deal, but it's almost annoying that we keep being reminded that WCPD has marine units out there to "help us" and yet, when an incident comes up where it could of been helpful to have FD assistance, we're (Croton, Montrose, VA Montrose, Verplanck and even Rockland FD Units) are left in the dark.

There was no FD request or response as it was not needed. If FD response was required the appropriate FD jurisdiction would hace been notified. In this case Montrose not Croton. This, as was stated by Chris192 was a basically a bad disabled, but because the boat struck rocks a NYS Police boating accident was required to be filed.

Was this a subtle shot at the WCPD? WCPD lets all agencies within the county know of their resoures and how they can be utilized by local agencies, whether PD or FD.

[irishfire2491 24]

I had a post earlier on the other topic about how many boat calls this year but I went back and it was missing it had some points that there are alot of different angencys with boats in the water. but i dont have the time to re type it all.

[Remember585 815]

Just out of curiosity, why is Westchester PD getting flamed for this when the call came through Rockland County? The WCPD has tried to educate our fellow responders about our resources so when we're all out on the river together we operate collaboratively - what does that have to do with this call? It is pretty ridiculous to ignore boats (or a helicopter) that are already out there because they're part of the PD and not an FD resource. We were actually out flying one night when you guys were searching for a jumper off the Bear Mountain Bridge but had no idea and never got north of Croton. Had we known (or been part of a coordinated response) we could have provided an immediate large scale thermal imaging search and/or provided illumination to make your operations safer and possibly more efficient.

I'm not flaming WCPD, but I see why it would seem like that. The point I was trying to make (at 4:30 AM or so) was that the way the incident post was made, it sounded as though a boat CRASHED into the rocks, which posed a danger to those on the vessel, and until someone got on location, could have involved injuries or another hazardous condition. It's not a big deal considering there were no injuries or other hazardous conditions caused. BUT - if the information provided was for a vessel in distress, how come the usual FD response you see on the river wasn't made? Again, this is not a dig at WCPD, or anyone in specific, just a general quesion of how one is to know what type of distress call warrants FD and what doesn't.

Good point... Two boats were staffed and on the water, the Rockland County SO and Westchester County PD. In addition, the helicopter was already airborne and assisted in locating the vessel just to save time (and because I'll use any excuse to fly ) since the operator was severely map challenged - he didn't know where he was or that there was shallow water near the shore! .

I know aviation has the county's fireground channels, has there been any progress outfitting Marine 4 with them or even a trunked radio? I know that it was being looked into. It would help us out so much more then relaying things thru dispatch, etc.

Thanks! I was going to ask the very same question. This was nothing more than a bad disabled vehicle (albeit a boat) or a minor property damage accident. Why would that require an FD response? It only got an aviation response because we were flying already.

Again, I don't know how it was dispatched, but if it was for a boat "accident" - then what harm is there in notifying local FD vessels? As it's been stated, they thought they were north of one place and wound up being roughly 3-4 miles away. Had the River Response been activated, an additional 2-3 boats would of been deployed which could of expedited locating the incident. Luckily the chopper was up and available, but what if it hadn't been?

It is a good thing this happened early in the season so we can iron this out and all get on the same page before a real incident occurs on the river.

AMEN! I think there is something in the works for us FD Marine units from Croton to Peekskill to get together with the WCPD unit so we all can see what we all have.

On a side note - WCPD has so many great resources that I think most departments have no idea exist. Have you guys ever considered maybe sending a letter to all the local FD, EMS and even PD agencies to "show off your goods?"

Thanks.

[Remember585 815]

There was no FD request or response as it was not needed. If FD response was required the appropriate FD jurisdiction would hace been notified. In this case Montrose not Croton. This, as was stated by Chris192 was a basically a bad disabled, but because the boat struck rocks a NYS Police boating accident was required to be filed.

Was this a subtle shot at the WCPD? WCPD lets all agencies within the county know of their resoures and how they can be utilized by local agencies, whether PD or FD.

Not a shot at WCPD at all, even though I know it seemed like that. Was curious as to how we all are suppost to know what warrants a response of everyone? I hear calls for boats in distress which could mean anything from taking on water, out of fuel, lost, run ashore, etc. and always wondered how it's decided who gets stuck responding to it.

Aside from a potentially life-threatening emergency and/or a hazardous condition threat, I think sending everyone is a waste. If a car runs out of fuel, they get a tow. So why not send Sea Tow to some of these incidents instead of emergency responders?

Anyone have thoughts on this? I am no very "marine savy" but am willing to be edumacated on it.

[hudson144 150]

It was a boat with a damaged outdrive with no reported injuries and not taking ON water,CALL SEA TOW!!!

Edited May 28, 2008 by hudson144

[helicopper 1,050]

Not a shot at WCPD at all, even though I know it seemed like that. Was curious as to how we all are suppost to know what warrants a response of everyone? I hear calls for boats in distress which could mean anything from taking on water, out of fuel, lost, run ashore, etc. and always wondered how it's decided who gets stuck responding to it.

Aside from a potentially life-threatening emergency and/or a hazardous condition threat, I think sending everyone is a waste. If a car runs out of fuel, they get a tow. So why not send Sea Tow to some of these incidents instead of emergency responders?

Anyone have thoughts on this? I am no very "marine savy" but am willing to be edumacated on it.

The PD Marine Units were on the water already so their response was faster than even SeaTow. They responded, verified that there was no emergency and in this particular case towed the vessel to the George's Island dock to await SeaTow completely eliminating any potential hazard/safety concern. The helicopter response was purely coincidental since we were already in the area. Hearing many of the calls for "vessels in distress" a great many of them ARE in fact handled by SeaTow.

Bottom line not all "vessels in distress" warrant an FD or PD response.