Transmitting A Size Up Upon Arrival

[x635 4,066]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm listening to Prince Georges, Fairfax, and Montgomery County Fire Disaptch and operations channels this afternoon, and they give size ups for just about every structural alarm they arrive on. Is it just me being ignorant, or does this not happen often in Westchester County?

Do you feel giving a size up upon arrival is helpful to you while responding, and what information should be included in the sizeup?

IMO, a size up should be as concise as possible, give the type, occupancy, construction, size, and other immedietely ralted factors.

Or should this information be included in pre-plans and everybody should already know it?

( I don't know how we would give size ups on 46.26 anyways. You can barely get out a parade announcement as it is now :roll: )

[Pudge3311 5]

x635,

From everyone I listen to around westchester, the only ones who give a size up 90-95% of the time is yonkers. Some others such as New Rochelle and Mt. Vernon give them every once in awhile, maybe 20-25%. I notice that even if there is a fire or other incident going on, the first arriving company isnt the one to give the initial size up, its usually the first arriving chief.

IMO, I think a quick size up would be a good habit to get into so when the time comes that u need one, it wont be something you're strugling to get out of your mouth, it will be second nature.

[Guest DG795]

I am a big fan of size up over the air on all structure responses. after experiencing "over the air size up", I have found it gives every single firefighter responding to the run a great "preview" of what they will be facing, should they have to operate there.

It doesnt have to be complicated, simply amount of stories, type of construction, and private vs. commercial (if not determined by construction type). All of this would take about 5 seconds to say.

It would not have to be a full fire size up, including exposures, progress, operating mode, etc.(at least not initially)

If you are an officer, or someone who tends to be on apparatus arriving first due often, why not try it...this is something that could help us all be more efficient, and doesnt require mountain moving or legislation. just remember:

1: stories,

2:type of construction, private or commercial,

3: closest hydrant.

Real simple, only takes a couple seconds. It helps keep everyone on the same page, from chiefs to dispatchers to probies.

I will put my money where my mouth is and start doing it when I am presented with the opportunity to.

P.S. any volunteers that say "this is a career thing" need to leave their caves and get with the times. This is something that can help EVERYBODY, and is utilized 100% of the time in many volunteer companies in Maryland and Pennsylania.

[Guest DFFD227]

I agree with Pudge3311, Yonkers does a fantastic job on sizeups...They size up on all calls...Activated alarms, Structural Fires, collapse situations, and even inside gas odors. Another thing that should be used often is exposure reports. How many times do you hear the exposures being givin over 46.26 during a working fire? To be honest, I listen a lot and I don't hear it a lot . I think its VERY important that all incoming units should know the exposures, along with the size up so they can get the BIG picture. Any ones thoughts?

[Remember585 815]

Initial size-up shouldn't be limited to only structural calls.

First arriving units on EVERYTHING should give a quick synopsis of the situation. The information they pass along could dictate response modes, assignments, hazards, potential issues, etc.

For example, auto accidents, brush fires, outside smoke conditions and vehicle fires could easily be sized-up on arrival without having to pull out the ol' fire service dictionary to look for big words to use!

Get in the habit at the little calls, so at the big ones, you're good at giving the Initial report!

[mfc2257 464]

Sizeup should also include who has command but it should be kept as simple as possbile.

E-245 is 10-19.

3 Story single family w/ fire from the #2 Floor

Hydrant located at the corner of X&Y

Captain 2254 establishing command.

[emt301 4]

Very well stated 2254.....

[DMA327 12]

ALso any hazards seen right off the bat!

[roeems87 0]

IMO, any responding unit (from any service) should give a size-up when they arrive on scene briefly on the radio. I know Yonkers FD does it all the time--at least, most of the time. "Engine 314, 10-84, 10-20 from the outside, investigating..." (10-20=nothing showing). Obviously, on EMS runs, there is no need for an ambulance or engine to announce what's going on over the air, but a simple "57-B2 is 10-84, PD on the scene." Or at a car accident, for example, "2102 10-84, three cars involved, two patients, possible extrication required." That way everyone responding knows what's going on. If an engine is on scene first, and says "smoke and flames showing on the second floor," the command knows to request another engine, or truck, or whatever he wants, even before reaching the scene.

In general, it doesn't eat much air time, and it's a practice I think most agencies should get in the habbit of doing.

[Guest DFFD227]

But what about announcing the exposures? Do you think that is needed too? Because if you have a 3 story wood framed with major exposure problems, your going to want to let the IC know the exposures right? Also if a IC pulls up 1st due and says "Exposure 4 is a street" then maybe we can get an engine in the rear of exp. 4 and go to work right away....

[Pudge3311 5]

I think a lot of it has to do with whether or not there is anything showing. Usually, when you arrive, if there is anything significant you would be able to see it. I think the biggest part of the size up is letting the units coming in know what kind of building you have. when you have something showing, the next thing would be to try and point out things that would be relivent to those following, such as if there is a street on the exposure 4 side.

[Guest]

I know all thjese posts are great ideas, but a quick report by an engine or possibly a truck company, is all thats needed in the beginning----- On scene--smoke or fire showing. Let the chief finish the rest. EVERYONE HAVE A SAFE HOLIDAYS.

[DMA327 12]

Not necessarily, fire could be hidden very well in a structure

[Guest SQUADco119]

to say let the chief finish the rest and thats assuming the cheif is on thier way. but if your first due you are command i see your point but you have to give orders not just what u see. Also 585 is right treat not so obvious fire calls just the same as if fire was blowing out a wndow. do size say what u see have where the hydrant is where u want your truck, your 2nd due etc, the fire service has become way to complacient remember you were called for a reason, alarms go off for a reason etc im not saying scream like an idiot and call mutual aid from the whole area just remember size up and command are the most impotant role in the in the structure of the fireground.

[chris 18]

I see some people using numbers as exposures. Shouldn't

we be using A-B-C-D as exposures and numbers as stories?

[Guest]

Current ICS says ABCD for sides divisions are 1,2,3,4.......... a size up should be given for every response except when your arriving on an ems call inside someones home. alarm activation,fire,mva etc......engine 1 on scne with 3 story brick occupied tax payer fire showing fom 1 st floor window side B. Hydrant is located 75' west of the fire building. will give further

[Guest]

oh yeah 150x 100

[Guest alsfirefighter]

DFFD...excellent points. Usually what you are referring to with most departments happens with the update once things get under way. In your example if an IC wants a unit on "exp. 4" which was a street he should assign a unit to take it, or even better yet if its a commerical building or MOD have it mapped out in a preplan.

Firedawg hit it, but it can come down to department SOG. Divisions are geographical. Size up can be for every type of call, you may not have to call one out on EMS but even MVA's can get a size up. Every firefighter should do a personal size up as well.

I won't get into my opinion of size ups and why some can't because of ego's and politics. Then again this is Westchester and we know how change is a wonderful thing here.