What Is Your Departments Policy To Be An Interior Firefighter???

[gamewell45 258]

When a department claims they have "X" number of firefighters protecting the community, does the community know that some, many, or all may not be willing (or able) to perform interior.

I've been in the fire service for over 32 years and i've never, ever had a member of the public approach me and ask me how many members of the department are able to or willing to perform interior duties. Every fire i've been at, their primary concern is that everyone is out of the house and safe. They honestly could care less. Anything else is secondary.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I've been in the fire service for over 32 years and i've never, ever had a member of the public approach me and ask me how many members of the department are able to or willing to perform interior duties.

I'm sure. Because they almost never ask anything about the FD. more important if the FD "hids" its numbers, how would they know? The dept claims to have enough, look they have plenty of members at the parade. lots of cars parked at the FH on meeting nights, etc.

Every fire i've been at, their primary concern is that everyone is out of the house and safe. They honestly could care less. Anything else is secondary.

Yep that is the primary concern. What happens when the answer is no there are kids trapped in there. Why aren't the firefighters going in to get them? "those ff's are only the outside ones"

They will care, when they find out what they have or don't have.

The bigger question is do we care? If the fire service is not willing to be honest with the community about its capabilities, how can we expect to get the resources that we need?

[DaRock98 76]

I'm sure. Because they almost never ask anything about the FD. more important if the FD "hids" its numbers, how would they know?

How does a FD "hide" its numbers from the public? I agree that the public probably does not know the TRUE numbers and again thats probably because they don't ever ask but I don't see any FD's advertising the number of interior firefighters they have.(not trying to be a wise a** serious question)

[Bnechis 3,961]

How does a FD "hide" its numbers from the public? I agree that the public probably does not know the TRUE numbers and again thats probably because they don't ever ask but I don't see any FD's advertising the number of interior firefighters they have.(not trying to be a wise a** serious question)

They advertise the number of FF's: plenty of members at the parade. lots of cars parked at the FH on meeting nights, The dept web site that proudly lists the # of members, the annual report, the instulation dinner. Even when the public dose not see this, the politicians often do and they never ask, but the chiefs never tell them that there is a problem.

Nowhere have I ever seen depts. make a clear distinction as to haw many interior vs. exterior members they have.

I know you were not trying to be a wise a**....neither was I.

[robert benz 344]

How does a FD "hide" its numbers from the public? I agree that the public probably does not know the TRUE numbers and again thats probably because they don't ever ask but I don't see any FD's advertising the number of interior firefighters they have.(not trying to be a wise a** serious question)

not starting a paid vs volly deal / career depts only have interior ff's and the # of FF'S is readily available

[Bnechis 3,961]

not starting a paid vs volly deal / career depts only have interior ff's and the # of FF'S is readily available

While this is generally true, I think a number of smaller "undermanned" career depts (& combos with few vollys) dont make it clear they dont have the personnel needed to perform interior, even thought they are certified to do interior.

[gamewell45 258]

They advertise the number of FF's: plenty of members at the parade. lots of cars parked at the FH on meeting nights, The dept web site that proudly lists the # of members, the annual report, the instulation dinner. Even when the public dose not see this, the politicians often do and they never ask, but the chiefs never tell them that there is a problem.

Nowhere have I ever seen depts. make a clear distinction as to haw many interior vs. exterior members they have.

I don't think volunteer firemen attending a parade or attending meetings is "advertising" to the public nor is listing the number of active members your department has or how many attend the installation dinner. What are the volunteers supposed to do? sneak into the fire house for drills and meetings? Don't attend parades? These are things volunteers do as part of being a volunteer. If you've never been part of the volunteer fire service i wouldn't expect you to understand.

I've never seen a volunteer department make a clear distinction as the the classification of its members, tho' i'm sure if the public requested it i'm sure any volunteer company would disclose it. Eitherway i think the likelyhood of it happening is about the same as the public requesting to know how many union members you had as opposed to core union members in your local. It makes no difference to them as they could care less.

[Remember585 815]

The number of people marching in a parade means nothing. Many departments will throw a uniform on anybody willing just to look good and hopefully take home a trophy which, at the end of the day, means nothing about how well that department does it's job.

The number of cars at the firehouse means nothing at all. If I drive by a station in my town the parking lot is full almost 24/7 - but that's because it is a commuter lot. It's not a "false" advertisement it's just a parking lot.

As for advertising Interior vs. Exterior personnel - how many career departments "advertise" the number of people on their staff that no longer fight fires, but are doing work in other roles, such as paperwork, inspections, etc.

Volunteer training should include FFI, Survival, Haz-Mat, AVET and FAST training. CPR too and even First Aid if you provide any form of EMS response. Annual refresher training is a must, going from the basics of our PPE to drilling on every piece of equipment carried. Sure it takes a lot of time, but if you are going to be on that rig going to calls, you need to be well versed and prepared for just about anything.

Can we please GIVE IT A REST ALREADY. I don't think anyone reasonable can dispute the two most obvious things affecting us in the fire service - the overall lack of manpower needed on both sides and the lack of training required to be a volunteer firefighter. If anyone thinks we get enough training they are DEAD WRONG and that attitude will result in people being hurt or killed.

Good night.

[DaRock98 76]

They advertise the number of FF's: plenty of members at the parade. lots of cars parked at the FH on meeting nights, The dept web site that proudly lists the # of members, the annual report, the instulation dinner. Even when the public dose not see this, the politicians often do and they never ask, but the chiefs never tell them that there is a problem.

Nowhere have I ever seen depts. make a clear distinction as to haw many interior vs. exterior members they have.

I know you were not trying to be a wise a**....neither was I.

I don't think the # of people at a parade and at company meetings are meant to fool the public into thinking there are a lot more FF's then they really have. Some of the old timers the parades and meetings are all they have and they pride themselves on that. Who are we to take that away from them? I see your point and don't disagree with you at all a lot of vollie and combo depts have manpower issues along with many other issues, but do you see anything changing about it in the near future? Unfortunately I don't and sadly the only thing that is going to open these peoples eyes is when they get caught with there pants down.

I don't think you were being a wise a** but I know how some people take questions like the one I asked on this site and I didn't want you to think I was trying to pick a fight with you.

not starting a paid vs volly deal / career depts only have interior ff's and the # of FF'S is readily available

I understand what your saying and I am not taking this as a career vs vollie issue I take it as a very serious issue that needs to talked about and fixed.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I don't think the # of people at a parade and at company meetings are meant to fool the public into thinking there are a lot more FF's then they really have. Some of the old timers the parades and meetings are all they have and they pride themselves on that. Who are we to take that away from them?

I do not believe its ment to fool anyone, but If you stand along the parade route you see 100 members in your dept..... then you drive past the fire station and can recall all the ff's you saw in uniform marching.

nothing wrong with taking pride in your dept., nothing wrong with helping out, nothing wrong with freeing up members so they can go inside, the issue is if they are not interior firefighters are they firefighters?

[FD36 4]

I do not believe its ment to fool anyone, but If you stand along the parade route you see 100 members in your dept..... then you drive past the fire station and can recall all the ff's you saw in uniform marching.

nothing wrong with taking pride in your dept., nothing wrong with helping out, nothing wrong with freeing up members so they can go inside, the issue is if they are not interior firefighters are they firefighters?

A firefighter is someone who should be able to perform all aspects of firefighting. You dont call a police officer without a gun a police officer do you?

It's a shame that places with manpower issues hide what is a grim reality. A lack of firefighters. Wether some people think that Dept. heads don't hide the truth or not, it happens all over. If your Dept. has manpowere problems and you choose not to do anything about it then shame on you. That is hiding the truth. In my experience it seems that "pride" or as I see it, ignorance, is what gets in the way. In a combo Dept. where there is a lack of manpower and the "Dept. head" tells the municipal government that there aren't any problems, or that there is x number of "firefighters", and it sounds all good to the powers that be, its a tragedy waiting to happen. I know for a fact that it goes on, and it is pathetic, cowardly and gravely irresponsible.

A Dept. head, either a chief or commisioner or whoever is responsible should do anything in their power to adequately staff their Dept. with manpower wether it be career or volunteer. And if you can't recruit enough volunteers that can meet the requirements to become an interior firefighter, than you plead with the local gov't to hire more firefighters. Thats what a good leader does. The more trained personnel you have available to you the better prepared you are.

It is a tradegy to think that a Dept. head would let pride or a personel agenda get in the way of protecting the very community they are sworn to serve.

[DaRock98 76]

It is a trade to think that a Dept. head would let pride or a personel agenda get in the way of protecting the very community they are sworn to serve.

That unfortunately is exactly what the problem is! My question to you is how do you get that dept head to change there ways, open there eyes and swallow there pride and do the right thing without getting someone killed?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

That unfortunately is exactly what the problem is! My question to you is how do you get that dept head to change there ways, open there eyes and swallow there pride and do the right thing without getting someone killed?

Brother...that is the single most complicated question in the fire service if not the world..but you hit that square on the head!

A firefighter is someone who should be able to perform all aspects of firefighting. You dont call a police officer without a gun a police officer do you?

It's a shame that places with manpower issues hide what is a grim reality. A lack of firefighters. Wether some people think that Dept. heads don't hide the truth or not, it happens all over. If your Dept. has manpowere problems and you choose not to do anything about it then shame on you. That is hiding the truth. In my experience it seems that "pride" or as I see it, ignorance, is what gets in the way. In a combo Dept. where there is a lack of manpower and the "Dept. head" tells the municipal government that there aren't any problems, or that there is x number of "firefighters", and it sounds all good to the powers that be, its a tragedy waiting to happen. I know for a fact that it goes on, and it is pathetic, cowardly and gravely irresponsible.

A Dept. head, either a chief or commisioner or whoever is responsible should do anything in their power to adequately staff their Dept. with manpower wether it be career or volunteer. And if you can't recruit enough volunteers that can meet the requirements to become an interior firefighter, than you plead with the local gov't to hire more firefighters. Thats what a good leader does. The more trained personnel you have available to you the better prepared you are.

It is a tradegy to think that a Dept. head would let pride or a personel agenda get in the way of protecting the very community they are sworn to serve.

Brother this is one of the singular best posts I have ever seen on this site. Very well put and nothing but honest truth. The sad part is when you bring up such things and even back it with facts, regulations and standards you then become the big bad enemy and it is sad when no matter what in the end you are fighting for the safety of all...within the department regardless of what added word you put in front of firefighter and for public safety. Thank you for posting such an articulate response about something many of us are dealing with and fighting an uphill battle over.

[gamewell45 258]

A firefighter is someone who should be able to perform all aspects of firefighting. You dont call a police officer without a gun a police officer do you?

In a uptopian world this might work, but in the volunteer fire service it's not the case, nor will it most likely ever be. You will probably have the different volunteer firefighter classifications long term as volunteers perform various functions on the fireground and at the station.

Career firefighters are an entirely different concept as opposed to volunteer firefighters; the career concept most likely works best in a major city who has a major tax base and can better afford to staff accordingly. Smaller Cities, towns and villages have very limited tax bases and depend on the utilization of the volunteer system to make ends meet. And in most cases, it works. Obviously there are exceptions to this.

There is no reason why career and volunteers can't work side by side as interior firefigthers on the fire scene if all are given the proper training and maintain the proper standards. Once people get this into mode of thinking, you might actually gain a working partnership in the fire service in New York State.