What Is Your Departments Policy To Be An Interior Firefighter???

[Monty 35]

I am not aware of any requirements that my department has for interior.

Alex, I don't think nims is part of the SOG's for us.

As for everything else I had esentials of firefighting in New york state along with intro to fire officer, Fire Officer 1, Fast, evoc, Saftey & survivel and an ex- officer in new york............CT would not except my class to be equal to interior qualifications. So now i had to take firefighter 1, after i have been doing this for 7 years....been to more classes then i can count( there are more then i listed)

Actually, at least for National FF1 exam, there are substitutions for FF1 recognizing Essentials and the Basic training that was offered over the years. I wonder if CT would accept the National Exams - and not make you take their FF1 course?

Allthough NYS does not regulate volunteer depts training regulations I do believe it also does not reckognize any course but FF1 as a basis for interior firefighters. FF1, FF2, Survival, Building Construction at a minimum should be a basis along with a comprehensive in-service trainig program.

I encourage all to read this month's issue of Firehouse Magazine about the Carver Mass Fire Department.

[robert benz 344]

ok so now what happens if a student fails out of ff-1 can this person still be considered an interior firefighter by his or hers dept? and if so why? And why would a dept take on the liability

[FD36 4]

ok so now what happens if a student fails out of ff-1 can this person still be considered an interior firefighter by his or hers dept? and if so why? And why would a dept take on the liability

Does said dept. even require their students to pass a ff1 test? Or do they just have to attend the class?

[Bnechis 3,961]

ok so now what happens if a student fails out of ff-1 can this person still be considered an interior firefighter by his or hers dept? and if so why? And why would a dept take on the liability

We have depts that permit apparatus to go RLS thru intersections without slowing down or yielding, so why would they worry about liability for lack of training?

[moggie6 54]

In regards to the FAST training for Fairview Dutchess......I believe the stance for having interior firefighters certified in FAST is safety. If your coming inside with me your going to be able to help me if i'm in trouble. Likewise I should be able to help you. Also I think we are "certified" by the county and not the state.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I guess I've been lingering long enough, so I'll take a crack at what I know...or at least think I do...lol.

The answer to Mr. Benz's question is yes and no in regards to be state law to be firefighter 1 to be interior.

Its yes if you are a career firefighter being that for the most part the only certified "firefighters" are professional firefighters whom by NYS law have to have a minimum of 229 hours of initial training within 18 months of employment, if (I remember correctly) the department has 6 or more firefighters. Firefighter 1 or the equivalent subjects of NFPA 1001 are part of the "229" which Westchester's CFA far exceeds this nearly doubled in hours in fact. There are volunteers who also can achieve this through taking classes and submitting for the cert.

No, sadly if you are a volunteer. There is no law with the exception of OSHA who's standards on initial training are a joke. The kicker is NFPA 1001 is the nationally accepted standard for intial training of firefighters which the NYS FF 1 is based on. This puts immense liability on a department not to follow the nationally accepted and the state accepted minimum standard. I know of departments whom once gave a "department" initial osha "course" which then allowed the members to operate as interior FF's within its jurisdictional boundries. While that might have been "within" interpretation of OSHA Fire Brigade standard, I always wondered if the Chief's at the time realized how much liability they were putting on themselves and the municipality and the "instructors" whom didn't meet the OSHA regulation for those "conducting training" or the fact that there was no real curriculum that met the OSHA standard either. Thank god those days are gone at least in a few areas that I had seen that in.

Am I close Bobby?

[robert benz 344]

I guess I've been lingering long enough, so I'll take a crack at what I know...or at least think I do...lol.

The answer to Mr. Benz's question is yes and no in regards to be state law to be firefighter 1 to be interior.

Its yes if you are a career firefighter being that for the most part the only certified "firefighters" are professional firefighters whom by NYS law have to have a minimum of 229 hours of initial training within 18 months of employment, if (I remember correctly) the department has 6 or more firefighters. Firefighter 1 or the equivalent subjects of NFPA 1001 are part of the "229" which Westchester's CFA far exceeds this nearly doubled in hours in fact. There are volunteers who also can achieve this through taking classes and submitting for the cert.

No, sadly if you are a volunteer. There is no law with the exception of OSHA who's standards on initial training are a joke. The kicker is NFPA 1001 is the nationally accepted standard for intial training of firefighters which the NYS FF 1 is based on. This puts immense liability on a department not to follow the nationally accepted and the state accepted minimum standard. I know of departments whom once gave a "department" initial osha "course" which then allowed the members to operate as interior FF's within its jurisdictional boundries. While that might have been "within" interpretation of OSHA Fire Brigade standard, I always wondered if the Chief's at the time realized how much liability they were putting on themselves and the municipality and the "instructors" whom didn't meet the OSHA regulation for those "conducting training" or the fact that there was no real curriculum that met the OSHA standard either. Thank god those days are gone at least in a few areas that I had seen that in.

Am I close Bobby?

very good response but they are not all gone, at least not in westchester

[firecapt32 282]

ALS--Bobby thats about as close of an answer that you can find regarding NYS and the Fire Service. As far as i know it is still AHJ setting the rules and regulations UNTIL something happens and the stuff hits the fan and goes all over the place. Then PESH anad OSHA come into the game . There's a current law suite about the Chiefs upstate where the 2 firefighters died 2 years ago. They are saying the chiefs didnt have enough background on building construction and also a lack of command training.

[Doc 11]

In regards to the FAST training for Fairview Dutchess......I believe the stance for having interior firefighters certified in FAST is safety. If your coming inside with me your going to be able to help me if i'm in trouble. Likewise I should be able to help you. Also I think we are "certified" by the county and not the state.

There isn't a county certification for FAST training. The county fire training center just administers the state fire training program which includes the FAST class. However I know that on occasion, the county might have issued a certificate for a certain class or series of classes, possibly FAST, much as I have a "county certificate" for ice/water rescue. The certificate actually says "Dutchess County" on it and was issued following completion of a course instructed by a Dutchess County fire instructor. In the end, home rule wins the day (AHJ)... again.

[TAPSJ 30]

So What Is The Certification Of A FAST Team? National, New York State, County, Or Department/District? How Many Members Have To Be Certified Before A Fire Department/District Is Concidered A FAST Team?

Thomas

[Guest]

We have one kind of firefighter...and we ALL can go inside. I don't really understand the concept of exterior firefighters. Either you can do the work, or you cannot. And, for the record...not meant as a slam. I am being serious about this. The fire service really does need to come to some kind of consensus about what a firefighter is. In my opinion, it is someone who can do ALL aspects of the job. Not just "help out." Again, just one guys .02

in replay

This work's because you are paid but I believe in all vol. dept's. we have interior and exterior firefighters and I think it is just fine that way. If I'm at a fire and have 4 guys that are interior I would love to have them inside fighting the fire than outside, putting up ladders and setting up lights. Thats what exterior guys do. Its their choice and I for one dont hold it against them. Some guys don't wan to go in. Now everyone has a job to do at a fire scene and everyone is called a fire fighter. Just because you dont go in the house, you can still put out a car fire or anything else outside. Therefore, you are a FIREFIGHTER IN OR OUT . If someone wants to just help out and you deny them, you just open yourself up for a lawsuit . This is how it is in a volunteer company, we're not paid . You have to go and do everything cause its your job, I'm not bashing you, but I don't think you would be saying this if you were a volunteer before you were paid. You would understand how it works. Also everyone that joins a volunteer department starts as a exterior firefighter until they have what they need. Just my 2 cent's. Again, not to bash you, we all have our comments.

Edited May 21, 2008 by DOC22
Many spelling and Grammar errors

[Guest]

From What I Know About Fairview's FAST Team Is That It Is A New York State Certified FAST Team. So They Run Thier Team 24/7/365, So Everyone In That Fire House Would Need The Training, Because The Go Mutial Aid To The City Of Poughkeepsie And The Local Area With Thier FAST Team. Hope That Helps.

Thomas

I never heard of this i dont think you need to be state certified , i know a few people in fairvew they go m/a like all other dept's do it's in the county plan just like fishkill's fast team or my firehouse fast team and pleasant valley we all run are team's 24/7/365

and Fairvew runs there team with 4 paid guys i believe

[Bnechis 3,961]

Thats what exterior guys do. Its their choice and I for one dont hold it against them. Some guys don't wan to go in. Now everyone has a job to do at a fire scene and everyone is called a fire fighter. Just because you dont go in the house, you can still put out a car fire or anything else outside. Therefore, you are a FIREFIGHTER IN OR OUT.

So what happens when 15 "firefighters" show up at a house fire and none chose to go in because they are exterior guys?

When a department claims they have "X" number of firefighters protecting the community, does the community know that some, many, or all may not be willing (or able) to perform interior.

If someone wants to just help out and you deny them, you just open yourself up for a lawsuit . This is how it is in a volunteer company, we're not paid . You have to go and do everything cause its your job,

Thats BS. You open yourself to a lawsuit if you deny entry do to race, religon, sex, origin...etc.

If you set a performance standard, thats based on the job...i.e members shall pass the following training, and a medical, and drug screening, and...........

A lot of volunteers claim "we do the same job for free" are you saying that that statement is false?

but I don't think you would be saying this if you were a volunteer before you were paid. You would understand how it works.

A lot of the career members here were volunteers first.

[moggie6 54]

I just want to correct me earlier statement on Fairview Dutchess being "certified" by the county. We actually are recognized by the county. When I asked my officer tonight at work he related that the county has some sort of regulations or requirements. You can't just call the county and say i'm ABC Fire Dept. and you can now put us in as a FAST Team. I do not know what the requirements are for the county.

[DaRock98 76]

So what happens when 15 "firefighters" show up at a house fire and none chose to go in because they are exterior guys?

?

I don't know about other departments but we don't roll and engine or ladder with only exterior firefighters, we wait till we have a driver an officer and at least 3 interior firefighters(if possible). I know your next question is going to be what if they don't show up? I don't know the answer to that I guess we will cross that bridge when it comes.(Hopefully it will never come)

When a department claims they have "X" number of firefighters protecting the community, does the community know that some, many, or all may not be willing (or able) to perform interior.

I do not know the answer to that question. I don't know what the community knows or doesn't know about the fire dept but I am sure you are right they all probably think that all members are interior firefighters.

Thats BS. You open yourself to a lawsuit if you deny entry do to race, religon, sex, origin...etc.

If you set a performance standard, thats based on the job...i.e members shall pass the following training, and a medical, and drug screening, and...........

Agreed!

A lot of volunteers claim "we do the same job for free" are you saying that that statement is false?

I am kind of on the fence about your last statement I feel we do the same job as a whole but there is a lot more to being a career firefighter then a vollie. I.E. Training. (This is my opinion only)

Edited May 21, 2008 by DaRock98

[Monty 35]

So what happens when 15 "firefighters" show up at a house fire and none chose to go in because they are exterior guys?

When a department claims they have "X" number of firefighters protecting the community, does the community know that some, many, or all may not be willing (or able) to perform interior.

Thats BS. You open yourself to a lawsuit if you deny entry do to race, religon, sex, origin...etc.

If you set a performance standard, thats based on the job...i.e members shall pass the following training, and a medical, and drug screening, and...........

A lot of volunteers claim "we do the same job for free" are you saying that that statement is false?

A lot of the career members here were volunteers first.

I don't think the public care too much - they certainly don't question. How many departments have (life) members on their rolls - that live in Florida or California! Sure they've paid their dues, recognize that - but to call them active firefighters - bit of a stretch.

I certainly believe there are volunteers that do do the same job for free, many of the people involved here - however there are certainly others that this statement does not apply to.

[Monty 35]

I just want to correct me earlier statement on Fairview Dutchess being "certified" by the county. We actually are recognized by the county. When I asked my officer tonight at work he related that the county has some sort of regulations or requirements. You can't just call the county and say i'm ABC Fire Dept. and you can now put us in as a FAST Team. I do not know what the requirements are for the county.

I think this a matter of Mutual Aid policy. Certainly at a Town / County level everyone can agree to the standards for FAST, Mutual Aid, Technical Rescue etc. Maybe for FAST is that everyone has NYS FAST training, at least 6 members on a call, certain equipment etc. Now, a completely different point is then applying / enforcing those standards. Again, I would say that's for County Chiefs or whoever. Bit tough to verify the qualifications of everyone, but if a team shows up with 4 members and they're supposed to have 6, then that should be addressed and if done consistently I would think that team should then be suspended / removed as an available resource.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I don't think the public care too much - they certainly don't question. How many departments have (life) members on their rolls - that live in Florida or California! Sure they've paid their dues, recognize that - but to call them active firefighters - bit of a stretch.

A) the public does not care until there is an issue.

the public is unaware, but when told by the politicians and the FD, that the FD has 100's of volunteers, but has trouble getting a rig out the door,,,there is a problem.

A village administrator asked me about the need to supply 100's of sets of PPE to the FD, I suggested they look at the rolls carefully. It turned out that 40% lived out of state (FL or some other retirement place), lived in a nursing home, was in there 80's, or was fire police (not needing the same level of PPE) etc. The public is asked to fund this dept and the dept. sells the community on its abilities, which are not true.

[southendexpress 11]

all you need to be interor in hillcrest (rockland) is nys ff1 and cleared by the dept physical every year.

[Raz 14]

This work's because you are paid but I believe in all vol. dept's. we have interior and exterior firefighters and I think it is just fine that way. If I'm at a fire and have 4 guys that are interior I would love to have them inside fighting the fire than outside, putting up ladders and setting up lights. Thats what exterior guys do. Its their choice and I for one dont hold it against them. Some guys don't wan to go in. Now everyone has a job to do at a fire scene and everyone is called a fire fighter. Just because you dont go in the house, you can still put out a car fire or anything else outside. Therefore, you are a FIREFIGHTER IN OR OUT . If someone wants to just help out and you deny them, you just open yourself up for a lawsuit . This is how it is in a volunteer company, we're not paid . You have to go and do everything cause its your job, I'm not bashing you, but I don't think you would be saying this if you were a volunteer before you were paid. You would understand how it works. Also everyone that joins a volunteer department starts as a exterior firefighter until they have what they need. Just my 2 cent's. Again, not to bash you, we all have our comments.

Lots of things to resond to in that.

First off, the car fire thing. The primary reason for disqualifying someone from interior status isn't training (unfortunately), it's the fact that the person is unable to wear an SCBA. If you can't wear an SCBA, you shouldn't be fighting car fires.

Secondly, everyone that joins a volunteer department doesn't start out as an exterior firefighter. They don't start out as anything. They're just a guy who signed a sheet of paper, with no training to speak of. To become an exterior firefighter, one still needs to go through some training (I forget what the class is called). It's a common misconception that being a member of a fire department makes you a firefighter.

Please, don't think that I have anything against "exterior firefighters", I'm all for people helping out. Having an extra guy to ring a hydrant can be the difference between a "room and contents" fire and a fully involved structure. My problem lies with officers, chiefs, commisioners, etc. telling people that they have "X" number of firefighters in the department, when only a fraction of them are in "fighting condition". Which leads into my next point:

I don't think the public care too much - they certainly don't question

There's a difference between not caring and not questioning. Think of all of the services we take for granted on a daily basis. We turn on the faucet and water comes out, we flick a switch and the lights go on. We don't question how it all works, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't care if it all stopped. Likewise, we assume that when we call 911, we'll get fire/police/EMS because that's what we've been told. We take our public officials and department heads at their word, and we assume that they'd have no reason to lie to us. The sad truth is, hiding behind false numbers infated by "exterior firefighters" is exactly that, lying to the public about the level of emergency response they can expect.

[CFI609D 119]

All new applicants to the Irvington Fire Department (IFD) are first required to pass a medical exam with our appointed department surgeon. The Irvington Fire Department uses NFPA Standard 1582, “Standard on Comprehensive Occupational Medical Program for Fire Departments” as the guidelines for determining medical clearance to be an interior structural firefighter and all new applicants must pass. Upon passing their physical and a fit test, a new applicant can then be considered for membership. This physical and fit test, by the way, are the same one all members must pass on an annual basis.

Upon joining the IFD, all new Probationary Firefighters MUST successfully complete and pass Firefighter I within their first year. In order to become interior qualified, however, they must then participate in several departmental hands-on live fire training exercise. This enables the chiefs and officers of the IFD to observe and work with the Probationary Firefighters under realistic and controlled conditions before giving them interior qualification. The number of training sessions varries depending upon the candidate and their skills. A new member must also be 18 years old before being given interior status. They are also expected to complete Firefighter Survival within the first year, as well as Firefighter II and other training programs within the first three years. Failure to pass FF-I in the first year will likley result in termination.

Once qualified, however, all IFD members must requalify annually in order to maintain interior qualification. In addition to passing the annual physical & fit test, all interior members are required to re-qualify on SCBA and interior fireground operations on an annual basis. The objective is to ensure that all operational personnel not only meet the minimum training requirements to attain interior status, but continue to maintain their skills and training to ensure the highest level of competency. Failure to maintain those skills and to keep up-to-date on the latest tactics & techniques puts all members at risk. In order to maintain interior fireground qualification, Irvington Fire Department personnel must each year:

• Attend, actively participate in, and successfully complete no fewer than four (4) department training sessions or drills involving the use of SCBA under simulated fireground conditions, with at least one of those training sessions involving mask confidence evolutions as well as demonstration of both low and reduced profile maneuvers

Or:

• Attend, participate in, and successfully complete fire training courses offered by New York or another state (or another accredited fire suppression & training agency recognized by the Chief of Department) for no less than 16 hours of hands-on fire suppression and mask confidence training, which must include both low and reduced profile maneuvers (i.e.: Firefighter I, Firefighter II, Firefighter Survival and FAST) , AND attend no fewer than four (4) department training sessions or drills, AND receive approval of the Chief of Department

Or:

• Be approved for interior fireground operations by a fire department, fire district, or other fire training authority with similar training and annual recertification requirements, and where approval has been granted within the past 12 months, AND attend no fewer than four (4) department training sessions or drills, AND receive approval of the Chief of Department

[firecapt32 282]

That sounds like a Fire Department that has it togeather and has an eye on the future. kudos IFD --I am sure there are other Departments that might have the same or close but I am also sure there are many Departments that dont come close to that kind of training.

Next question for IFD is let us know the qualifications for being an Officer I am sure other departments would love to hear what it takes.

[Bnechis 3,961]

IFD just proved that you do not need to let anyone claim to be a ff because they have a membership card.

Well done

[CFI609D 119]

That sounds like a Fire Department that has it togeather and has an eye on the future. kudos IFD --I am sure there are other Departments that might have the same or close but I am also sure there are many Departments that dont come close to that kind of training.

Next question for IFD is let us know the qualifications for being an Officer I am sure other departments would love to hear what it takes.

Officers (LTs and Chiefs...we do not have the rank of Captain) must have successfully completed IFO and Officer I, and they must be able to maintain interior status.

[DaRock98 76]

They are also expected to complete Firefighter Survival within the first year, as well as Firefighter II and other training programs within the first three years. Failure to pass FF-I in the first year will likley result in termination.

Thanks for the info chief I think it's a great policy. Just one question out of curiosity what other training programs are the probies expected to complete after the FFII class within the 3 years?

[CFI609D 119]

Thanks for the info chief I think it's a great policy. Just one question out of curiosity what other training programs are the probies expected to complete after the FFII class within the 3 years?

As per the IFD's SOGs:

"All Irvington Fire Department personnel are also expected to successfully complete the following training courses (or the equivalents) within their first three years:

• Firefighter II

• EVOC

• Pump Operator

• Aerial Device Operations"

The key word above is "expected," which is very different from required. We have also seen most of our active interior qualified FFs also take Truck Ops in recent years, and many have also taken FAST.

Personally, I would like to see FF-II mandatory for all interior firefighters. I also wish that the training portions of the SOGs were more aggressively enforced.

Hope this helps.

[Monty 35]

There's a difference between not caring and not questioning. Think of all of the services we take for granted on a daily basis. We turn on the faucet and water comes out, we flick a switch and the lights go on. We don't question how it all works, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't care if it all stopped. Likewise, we assume that when we call 911, we'll get fire/police/EMS because that's what we've been told. We take our public officials and department heads at their word, and we assume that they'd have no reason to lie to us. The sad truth is, hiding behind false numbers infated by "exterior firefighters" is exactly that, lying to the public about the level of emergency response they can expect.

Getting a little bit away from the original topic - but that's what happens in a good conversation Maybe the original statement was a bit flippant - but it did cause a couple of responses The public does care - to an extent. I agree that you do expect to get a response when you call 911. However, a couple of questions, what are the expectations? How quickly, how many? Volunteer vs. Paid? And of course, how many people get to test this out and call 911 (and for a real fire)?

How many average people care about ems / fire protection when moving to a community? Sure they care about the school system. Maybe they inquire about crime rates, definitely about taxes. Number of firefighters in the village / town / city - extremely unlikely. ISO rating almost never (I don't know what my municipalities ISO rating is). Given that the Emergency services portion of taxes is probably less than 10% it's not too high on most peoples radar.

Of course, all bets are off when something goes wrong for any given individual - but when you look at the collective community, I stand by my points. And, maybe that one time that it does go wrong someone will call the Department's bluff and you get lawyers involved .......

There was a study, mentioned on a firehouse.com podcast about surveying the public for time to respond to a medical call. The average person expected a response time of about 8-10 minutes. Does that hold for fire? Do they expect to get 1 truck or 6? 3 firefighters or 30? Sure they'll be screaming and hollering if there is a need for a rescue and only exterior firefighters - they'll probably feel much better though with one fire truck and 2 or 3 firefighters that do a primary search. Will we? That's a different story. If there's a CO alarm and you have those same exterior firefighters and 5 trucks are they going to be upset?

If we want to change this, then I believe it takes a significant education effort. Not just an annual flyer in the mail - how much attention do you think that gets? Sure you get some percentage to donate, but I bet it's a pretty small percentage. http://www.fire2020.org/

[Raz 14]

Getting a little bit away from the original topic - but that's what happens in a good conversation Maybe the original statement was a bit flippant - but it did cause a couple of responses The public does care - to an extent. I agree that you do expect to get a response when you call 911. However, a couple of questions, what are the expectations? How quickly, how many? Volunteer vs. Paid? And of course, how many people get to test this out and call 911 (and for a real fire)?

How many average people care about ems / fire protection when moving to a community? Sure they care about the school system. Maybe they inquire about crime rates, definitely about taxes. Number of firefighters in the village / town / city - extremely unlikely. ISO rating almost never (I don't know what my municipalities ISO rating is). Given that the Emergency services portion of taxes is probably less than 10% it's not too high on most peoples radar.

Of course, all bets are off when something goes wrong for any given individual - but when you look at the collective community, I stand by my points. And, maybe that one time that it does go wrong someone will call the Department's bluff and you get lawyers involved .......

There was a study, mentioned on a firehouse.com podcast about surveying the public for time to respond to a medical call. The average person expected a response time of about 8-10 minutes. Does that hold for fire? Do they expect to get 1 truck or 6? 3 firefighters or 30? Sure they'll be screaming and hollering if there is a need for a rescue and only exterior firefighters - they'll probably feel much better though with one fire truck and 2 or 3 firefighters that do a primary search. Will we? That's a different story. If there's a CO alarm and you have those same exterior firefighters and 5 trucks are they going to be upset?

If we want to change this, then I believe it takes a significant education effort. Not just an annual flyer in the mail - how much attention do you think that gets? Sure you get some percentage to donate, but I bet it's a pretty small percentage. http://www.fire2020.org/

I think we agree on a lot of points. Primarily that emergency services tend to be "out of sight, out of mind." It's that old C.I.A. mentality: If we're doing our jobs correctly, you don't hear about us. When we screw up, it makes the front page. That fact, combined with the fact that the average person has absolutely no idea how their fire department operates and what its responsibilities are, tends to leave us out on the periphery when it comes to public accountability. As long as a department head stands up and says "all is well", that's good enough for most people. Even if they wanted to press the issue, they wouldn't know what questions to ask. Does that give us carte blanche to do whatever we wish when it comes to setting training standards, supplying adequate manpower for alarms, etc.? I'd like to believe that the answer is a hard no. In my opinion, "exterior firefighters" like VAC "attendants" just give department heads yet another way to skirt accountability.

I love my profession, but I'll be honest, I tend to dislike the words firefighter and fire department. It tends to invite the statement "well what do you do when there's no fire?" Which inevitably leads to me explaining "well, we also take care of heart attacks, car accidents, injuries, flooding, hazardous conditions, transporting the elderly, and pretty much anything else you can think of." I think the public would "care" a lot more if they realized everything their "fire" department is actually responsible for.

[robert benz 344]

ok how about a different spin on this. the public is pretty much clueless when it comes to it emergency protection, fd, pd or ems but how many of "US" do know that our dept cannot deliver the service. I mean a true hard look in the mirror, and say "my dept will respond with the required number of emergency personnel in a timley manor, any time the alarm goes off .

Is this the new age where we can say we are a fire dept, until a true emergency call comes in and then proudly exclaim that it took 7 depts mutual aid to put out our fire.

I understand tankers and FAST and "the big one" for mutual aid. but are some depts running a complete shell game when it comes to public safety? And since the public is clueless, then "the fire service" is running this shell game and should be the ones have the balls to say "we cant provide the service we used to" due to no fault of our own, and what can we do to fix this.

The fire service is very reactive as opposed to proactive. I hope it doesnt take a tragic loss of life civilian or firefighter to wake up the powers that control our safety. Look back in that mirror and ask when I am at work or just not home , is my family protected 24 /7 or is your family emergency plan to get the kids out and call the insurance company?

What the public expects is nothing less than the claims made by the patch on your apparatus. XYZ FIRE DEPT

[Bnechis 3,961]

ok how about a different spin on this. the public is pretty much clueless when it comes to it emergency protection, fd, pd or ems but how many of "US" do know that our dept cannot deliver the service. I mean a true hard look in the mirror, and say "my dept will respond with the required number of emergency personnel in a timley manor, any time the alarm goes off .

Is this the new age where we can say we are a fire dept, until a true emergency call comes in and then proudly exclaim that it took 7 depts mutual aid to put out our fire.

I understand tankers and FAST and "the big one" for mutual aid. but are some depts running a complete shell game when it comes to public safety? And since the public is clueless, then "the fire service" is running this shell game and should be the ones have the balls to say "we cant provide the service we used to" due to no fault of our own, and what can we do to fix this.

The fire service is very reactive as opposed to proactive. I hope it doesnt take a tragic loss of life civilian or firefighter to wake up the powers that control our safety. Look back in that mirror and ask when I am at work or just not home , is my family protected 24 /7 or is your family emergency plan to get the kids out and call the insurance company?

What the public expects is nothing less than the claims made by the patch on your apparatus. XYZ FIRE DEPT

Very well said