What Happened To Booster Reels?

[x635 4,066]

I don't know if it's me, but I think booster reels have been disappearing from this area for a long time now.

I've heard the reasons, improper use, we don't do washdowns anymore, etc. But I can't believe we wouldn't put a tool on an apparatus because we're afraid the crews may misuse it.

But I'm seeing booster reels on other deliveries from across the country, and that gets me thinking.

I personally feel they're a great tool when applied properly and should be standard on every engine. They're easy and quick to deploy and stow, and on many engines, don't take up that much room that wouldn't be used anyways.

Some uses for booster reels nowadays include small brush, rubbish or dumpster fires, hazmat decon, rinsing of equipment and gear post-fire suppresion, cooling off and rehab, and endless other uses. Again, it's easy for 1 firefighter to pull and deploy.

So, why are a lot of comittees no longer spec'ing booster reels? I know many departments use a "trash line", but it's not the same.

[batt2 145]

I originally hated to see them go. You did see them used improperly, going into structures or at car fires but we used them a lot at rubbish and brush fires in our district. But they also had their problems. They were difficult to stretch for long distances because they didn't "give." It really was easier to stretch a handline for long distances. Reeling it in was a little dangerous. The chauffeur would push the button and the next member would have a rag to clean the debris off as it reeled up and the third would unkink it- but it would kink up and catch you before the chauffeur reacted. The reels would often break and then you had to rewind them with a crank.

The one-length 1 3/4" "junk line" was initiated with the demise of the booster reel and it doesn't take that much time to repack.

They haven't been spec'd on our rigs for years and we really don't miss them now.

[nhfd241 4]

i think booster reels are great like let say your dept. is training and you have lines stretched with a booster reel you just have to press a button inted of reracking the hose

[ja3kfd 34]

I am up in the air on them , we had 2 on all 3 Katonah Engines, plus our Mini Attack, We took one off each Engine in Later years and pre piped a Deck Gun in there place we really do not use them at all anymore. The Mini attack still has both that we can use at brush fires .

I would not use them on Dumpster fires , too much unknown, stuff thrown in there and not enough Water flow.

I also remember we had a problem with the orginal nozzles and getting them repaired.

[OLDGUY19 6]

Booster Reels were great in their time, but because as firefighter's we always push the limit and things get taken away. I did see in my time a dept that used an oil truck reel and mounted 200' of 1 3/4. It did deploy very well and it was wet packed. It was mounted between the cab and pump panel it could go out either side.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I've heard the reasons, improper use, we don't do washdowns anymore, etc. But I can't believe we wouldn't put a tool on an apparatus because we're afraid the crews may misuse it.

See Charlston SC. If it can be missused it will be.

I personally feel they're a great tool when applied properly and should be standard on every engine. They're easy and quick to deploy and stow, and on many engines, don't take up that much room that wouldn't be used anyways........So, why aren't a lot of comittees no longer spec'ing booster reels? I know many departments use a "trash line", but it's not the same.

They take up low space that is needed for heavy items or if up in the dunnage area, limit access to the pump for maintenance, and I've seen crews step on pump outlets and handles to clear jambs. They tend to leak as the rig gets older and they are not cheap.

Some uses for booster reels nowadays include small brush, rubbish or dumpster fires, hazmat decon, rinsing of equipment and gear post-fire suppresion, cooling off and rehab, and endless other uses. Again, it's easy for 1 firefighter to pull and deploy.

Hazmat decon we used larger lines if we need to do mass (gross) decon (need a higher flow than a booster) or garden hose for 99% of technical decon, because a booster flows way to much and we need to control and capture run off.

Most texts say never use for dumpster fires because you do not know whats in there. Can get over run if it turns out you have flammables or other hazmat in it.

[jcoppola 52]

I am a FD traditionalist and I was very sad to see the booster reels go. I cannot tell you how many times I wish I had one on the rig. I think they are useful and acceptable for many functions on the fireground. For example; overhauling structure fires, brush fires, rinsing off dirty equipment, throwing the booster in the tank to properly circulate tank water through the pump, are a few that come to mind. I remember putting out many a car fire with a 1" booster with a fog nozzle off of Belltown Engine 42 "back in the day". I believe that there is no good reason to eliminate the booster reel from an engine co. even in 2008. While we are on the topic...BRING BACK THE HARDY GUN too.

JVC

[5slow 9]

I think everyone likes packing hose... So much more fun that pushing that magical button and careful reeling it back in!

[bull56 22]

I remember the Hardy Guns, it had a stream for 100 yards, used a couple of times inside a job, good knock down, remeber then..

[Dondestro 9]

We have a boosterline on our engine and it gets used alot... one thing i do wish was that we had one on our tanker.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

I remember the Hardy Guns, it had a stream for 100 yards, used a couple of times inside a job, good knock down, remeber then..

Don't forget old man ours had 3rd stage. 900 lbs at 30 gpm, burn your hands threw those fireballs if you held the hardy gun on the barrel. with 2 guns going you had about 10 min. of water on engine 58[1964 mack C-95] the real eng-58

[antiquefirelt 994]

We too had booster reels and got rid of them. At first there was some that didn't want to give them up, but now no one really longs for those days. Most of the guys are new enough to never had them. Now we run short trash lines of 1.75" with treated hose that can be rinsed and reloaded, so the cleaning time is much less, but with a more robust "weapon". The booster reels took up a fair amount of space as others have noted. I can fit a 200 ft' donut rolled preconnect in the same or less space as the old booster reel, seems like a no brainer. And as Batt. 2 mentioned, they really didn't make for an easy stretch once you got any distance or a turn or two. A normal line properly loaded can be deployed faster.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

There isn't anything you can do with booster hose that you couldn't/can't do with a regular line off the apparatus.

While its nice in theory to say something shouldn't disappear because of misuse, they were and still are being deployed improperly on a daily basis. With the advent of trashlines in bumpers and such, the need really has disappeared, and the friction loss involved to get just about 60 GPM isn't really worth it. Overhaul? What's wrong with the initial or back up line that was stretched? Re-circulate water to the pump? What is wrong with opening the tank fill? Brush fires I'll give you...but our 1 3/4" does just as well at 100 to 125 GPM's. Throw in the additional maintenance that is needed (and pretty much often not done) to the hose and I have to say I just don't see the need for them anymore. NHFD...I'm not sure what you mean by

like let say your dept. is training and you have lines stretched with a booster reel you just have to press a button inted of reracking the hose

but booster lines are pretty much good for about 2 things mentioned on here...cleaning equipment and for a 50 gal. garbage can fire. Actually there is one more taking up space. Too small of hose, too much friction loss too little flow.

[shac 7313 0]

I am a FD traditionalist and I was very sad to see the booster reels go. I cannot tell you how many times I wish I had one on the rig. I think they are useful and acceptable for many functions on the fireground. For example; overhauling structure fires, brush fires, rinsing off dirty equipment, throwing the booster in the tank to properly circulate tank water through the pump, are a few that come to mind. I remember putting out many a car fire with a 1" booster with a fog nozzle off of Belltown Engine 42 "back in the day". I believe that there is no good reason to eliminate the booster reel from an engine co. even in 2008. While we are on the topic...BRING BACK THE HARDY GUN too.

JVC

to jcoppola. i think your right about the booster reels ! ! ! however they seem tobe things in the past ?

they work well at brush fires thought. shac 7313

[Monty 35]

There isn't anything you can do with booster hose that you couldn't/can't do with a regular line off the apparatus.

While its nice in theory to say something shouldn't disappear because of misuse, they were and still are being deployed improperly on a daily basis. With the advent of trashlines in bumpers and such, the need really has disappeared, and the friction loss involved to get just about 60 GPM isn't really worth it. Overhaul? What's wrong with the initial or back up line that was stretched? Re-circulate water to the pump? What is wrong with opening the tank fill? Brush fires I'll give you...but our 1 3/4" does just as well at 100 to 125 GPM's. Throw in the additional maintenance that is needed (and pretty much often not done) to the hose and I have to say I just don't see the need for them anymore. NHFD...I'm not sure what you mean by

but booster lines are pretty much good for about 2 things mentioned on here...cleaning equipment and for a 50 gal. garbage can fire. Actually there is one more taking up space. Too small of hose, too much friction loss too little flow.

One thing my old department went to when they did away with Booster reels was to add 200' or 300' of 1" forestry hose on a manual electrical cord /air hose type reel. Took up about a quarter (if that much) of the space of the booster reel. Like wise trash lines work well for most booster line applications. Trash lines may take longer than a booster to pick up but not much. Pressurized Water Can works great for those small brush fires too.

I'd much rather have that space for a Generator, or Combi-tool or another more useful tool.

[Raz 14]

But I can't believe we wouldn't put a tool on an apparatus because we're afraid the crews may misuse it.

I'd say that's the best reason I've ever seen for not placing a piece of equipment on a rig. Booster lines are a bad example to use when demonstrating this reasoning, after all, the primary reason booster lines were taken off rigs is because they don't have much of an effect on anything.

So let's take something that does have a big effect on a fire, like positive pressure ventilation fans. When used correctly, there's nothing that can compete with one for clearing out smoke and gas. When used improperly, you'll burn the building to the ground in a matter of minutes. I've known a few fire chiefs who have specifically said "I won't get one, because I don't want the wrong guy taking that thing and using it improperly." Is it a piss poor attitude to have? Yes. Does it speak wonders about how you truly view the firefighters in your department? Absolutely, but it's a realistic issue that the chief has mitigated before it became a problem.

Edited May 15, 2008 by Raz

[EFFDCO4 0]

Booster lines are definitely a thing of the past. Way back when, they were useful - or used to put out everything from rubbish fires, to brush fires, trash can fires and other small situations - like having hoseline fights (remember those times............). But from as safety and practicality perspective it makes more sense to use your traditional 1 3/4" line. Short preconnects, trash line preconnects off the side or front bumper work really well. Who wants to get into a situation where you need more water pressure than a booster line can provide? Not me................I also like the forrestry hose. We have anywhere between 300' to 600' of forrestry hose on each of our utility brush trucks and it takes up little space.

[Stepjam 118]

Just venturing an opinion, but I think their demise might have to do with Firefighter safety. Of course, we all know better....

but there's the temptation of stretching one for an attack, then running out of water very quickly.

[PHIL78 129]

just like als said there aint nothing you can do with a booster that you cant do with an 1 3/4".Its just an outdated piece of equipment that would take up way to much space on a rig that actually works. Granted they are a piece of equipment that looks great on classic apparatus but thats where they belong in parades or museums.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Personally I think they work very well for chimney fires in conjunction with a special chimney snuffer nozzle. I've used them quite a few times with success. They are also great for small brush fires and/or illegal burns, shorten the cleanup time significantly. I don't think they have gone out to pasture, I think its used much more often than the deck gun mounted atop alot of other engines.

[jack10562 414]

Give me a good ol' Akron Brass Rockwood Nozzle on a booster line, any day.... ah yes....

oh wait, this is not protection from the past....

[Guest DFC278]

Personally I think they work very well for chimney fires in conjunction with a special chimney snuffer nozzle. I've used them quite a few times with success. They are also great for small brush fires and/or illegal burns, shorten the cleanup time significantly. I don't think they have gone out to pasture, I think its used much more often than the deck gun mounted atop alot of other engines.

If you keep using booster lines for some of the above items I just bet you're going to see those useless deck guns being used alot more often.

[x635 4,066]

What about booster reels on "Pump And Roll" wildland interface apparatus? Much more durable and easier to use from a moving engine knocking down a large area of a grass fire then traditonal trash or forestry lines. Also, much easier to pack up and get out if the fire gets close to you (and not have to leave your hose behind)

As far as reeling the hose up, I've seen remote switches mounted on the nozzle, via remote, as a foot pedal close to the ground near the booster reel, in additon to the more traditonal placement.

Also, Phoenix, AZ FD uses booster reels (one of the most progressive departments in the nation) in urban structural suppresion to wash down turnout gear, hoses, SCBA's, and equipment before placing back on the rig......therefore reducing the amount of dirt and carcinogens you bring back to the station with you. And, the booster line is a LOT easier to clean then traditional jacketed hose. Also, the booster line can be easily placed and cracked for member "cooldown".

As far as flow for brush fires and small fires with no chance for extension or other hazardous potential that would require more water, if you're using Class A foam, then that isn't an issue. Also, you don't use as much water, which in some situations is beneficial.

[Future Fireman 4]

What about booster reels on "Pump And Roll" wildland interface apparatus? Much more durable and easier to use from a moving engine knocking down a large area of a grass fire then traditonal trash or forestry lines. Also, much easier to pack up and get out if the fire gets close to you (and not have to leave your hose behind)

Agreed, a 1" inch booster hose hangine outside a cab with a man inside the cab controlling it is alot easier to go around a fire than a forestry hose being walked along the truck. (At least that's what I've heard)

As far as flow for brush fires and small fires with no chance for extension or other hazardous potential that would require more water, if you're using Class A foam, then that isn't an issue. Also, you don't use as much water, which in some situations is beneficial.

If it's a small fire, why not use a pump can? (AKA Indian Pumps) That's pretty easy to use.

Mike

Edited May 16, 2008 by Future Fireman

[Raz 14]

I think its used much more often than the deck gun mounted atop alot of other engines.

A deck gun takes up a lot less space than a booster line, and can be used in a lot more situations. A booster line is a luxury, a deck gun is a necessity.

[sr71 1]

What about booster reels on "Pump And Roll" wildland interface apparatus? Much more durable and easier to use from a moving engine knocking down a large area of a grass fire then traditonal trash or forestry lines. Also, much easier to pack up and get out if the fire gets close to you (and not have to leave your hose behind)

As far as reeling the hose up, I've seen remote switches mounted on the nozzle, via remote, as a foot pedal close to the ground near the booster reel, in additon to the more traditonal placement.

Also, Phoenix, AZ FD uses booster reels (one of the most progressive departments in the nation) in urban structural suppresion to wash down turnout gear, hoses, SCBA's, and equipment before placing back on the rig......therefore reducing the amount of dirt and carcinogens you bring back to the station with you. And, the booster line is a LOT easier to clean then traditional jacketed hose. Also, the booster line can be easily placed and cracked for member "cooldown".

As far as flow for brush fires and small fires with no chance for extension or other hazardous potential that would require more water, if you're using Class A foam, then that isn't an issue. Also, you don't use as much water, which in some situations is beneficial.

here is a video of them using it to knock down this small car fire

[Remember585 815]

here is a video of them using it to knock down this small car fire

I'm not that impressed. At the end of that video, it doesn't appear the fire is completely out. Give me a 1 3/4" line with two guys that know what they're doing and I bet it goes out in that same amount of time.

As you can see in this video, more fire, use of a 1 3/4" and in almost the same time, it's a thing of the past.

Plus, not to stray off subject too far, what's with the two knuckleheads sticking their unprotected heads in the car?? I'm sorry, but with all the airbags in cars now, there's no reason to stick the ol' noggin in their. Especially without PPE and an SCBA.

Edited May 16, 2008 by Remember585

[robert benz 344]

I keep hearing "it is easier"!! Is it so difficult to stretch a handline these days? lets see some of the benifits, you learn how to properly stretch a line under "fire conditions" without a lot pressure (not pump pressure) you learn how to control the nozzle and the stream you want to use, the MPO gets more practice pumping and figuring out his friction loss, you put the proper amount of gpms where it is needed, if you are short handed even better yet, you live in the real world get used to it.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I agree that the pump and roll capability is a great tool, but I'm looking at it more of a local discussion. Where in Westchester do we really need pump and roll capability on anything more then a brush truck?

Also in regard to "cooldown," you can achieve the same by putting a fog nozzle on a discharge and just crack it. Even better set up appropriate rehab and have a strong rehab policy so that isn't as much of a need.

I have to agree with benz and 585...how hard is it to stretch and pack a line? Minimum GPM for a car fire should be no less then 125 GPM. Your not getting that with a booster line. Stretch the right line and the job is easier.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Also, Phoenix, AZ FD uses booster reels (one of the most progressive departments in the nation)...

I think this depends on your point of view. If you agree with some of the stuff they do, that most of us don't, then you'd be inclined to see them as progressive. If you disagree or are skeptical, than your view is probably different. I would consider Phoenix to be "one of the largest FD's least resistant to change" vs. calling them progressive. Given the fire experience, full time ongoing R+D and trying things before making changes, I'd say Boston FD, FDNY, Chicago and some others are more progressive than PFD they just don't promote it as such.

Back a few years we all took the Fireground Command Course based on Brunicini's command book, then we started having officer candidates read his Customer Service book. To say many of us bit hard, would be fairly accurate. But over time as we tried to implement the "Anything for Mrs. Smith" philosophy we seemed to lose sight of some core mission basics. Reality strikes most places harder than Pheonix, AZ. The most powerful lobby in most states (the other 49!) is not the Firefighter's Union. Pheonix has championed that, and certainly we need to pay attention. But given staffing, funding and demographics most of us can not make our little burg's into a Pheonix modeled FD. We can take individual pertinent lessons from PFD as well as FDNY, LA, CFD, YFD or the next town over. Every lesson must be evaluated on it's own merits and how it applies to your FD.

On the booster reels, again, is Phoenix progressive? They're still using them when there are far more reasons not to?