N.Y. recommends changes to fire system

[SteveOFD 176]

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New York State Recommends Changes to Fire System

Posted: 05-02-2008

Updated: 05-02-2008 04:11:42 PM

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Elizabeth Moore

Newsday, Melville, N.Y.

May 2--ALBANY -- For the first time, a state commission has recommended taking a hard look at New York's volunteer-led system of fire protection and requiring counties to at least consider assuming more control of their local fire services.

It's such a touchy subject that five of the 15 members of the Commission on Local Government Efficiency -- including Long Island's two members -- voted against even studying the idea.

But commissioners said they'd heard too many "horror stories" on Long Island and statewide about multiplying Taj Mahal fire stations stuffed with brand new equipment, at a time when volunteer numbers are rapidly dropping.

for link to the full article go to Firehouse.com.

Hopefully this will be a wake up call for better utilization of resources to meet the demands of the Citizens we serve.

Link to the full report - N.Y. State Commision on Local Government Efficiency.

Link to the Recommendations are here. Recommendations #37 - 44 pertain to the Fire Services of New York State.

Edited May 3, 2008 by SteveOFD

[joshlost818 6]

WOW

[ex-commish 490]

My guess is this will take years to implement but it should truly serve as a wake up call to all affected especially all civil service unions with respects to consolidation and benefits. I suggest you read 3-9 in the recommendations.

[on the job 68]

WOW

Thanks again..............Long Island

[bil14ga 1]

About time that the state is talking about pushing services together. This needs to happen at all levels of government, especially the local level. Too much duplication of services... which is nothing more than government waste. Why do we need all of this apparatus when the town next door has a similar piece sitting on the floor not being used to its full potential. Look at town government... Why is there duplicate tax records at both the town I live in and at the county office building? For that matter why is there individual tax records at every town hall that duplicates the records at the county. Do you know that in Dutchess county, the town often pays the county to have tax bills made up and then the town mails them out? Why add the extra step? Have one universal tax collector at the county level. Almost makes sense!

All in all it is about the little kingdoms we build. Always trying to have something we percieve (SPELLING) as better often at the expense of the poor taxpayer. As Ronald Reagan once said.... "Bigger government is not the solution to the problem... It is the problem."

Lets have a thoughtful and sincere discussion on how to relieve our tax burden.

[PC_420 28]

Finally! This is way past pue with the blatant and disgusting use of public monies by these fire districts throughout New York State with absolutely no real government oversight.

[EJS1810 7]

Finally! This is way past pue with the blatant and disgusting use of public monies by these fire districts throughout New York State with absolutely no real government oversight.

if you read the entire report it covers all aspects of government not just fire. it is a bold move to reduce government on all levels.

[PC_420 28]

Yea, Ed, I know, but in context of EMTbravo, it falls in to talking about fire districts.

[Bnechis 3,961]

if you read the entire report it covers all aspects of government not just fire. it is a bold move to reduce government on all levels.

While the report addresses almost every aspect of problems with local gov. It does not address the problems of County and State Gov.

In looking at all of the recomendations, there is something to upset every interest group. Besides the cuts to career FD's how many VFD's in Westchester are ready to give up the rigs that they cant man? In the real world (without FD boarders no station would need more than 1 engine and 1 ladder or tanker...so how many of the VFD's would not need 2 or 3 engines in the house?

[Raz 14]

It's about time. It warms my heart to know that someone, somewhere, is finally sick of driving past $19,000,000 fire houses that were pushed forward by people calling themselves "taxpayer advocates".

[RWC130 594]

37. Require all E-911 calls and police, fire and emergency medical services

dispatch to be done at the county level.

IMO, I think this is a GREAT idea and it should have been done this way since

DAY 1 here in Westchester County!

[moggie6 54]

I'm sorry I missed something in the report. Where did it say anything in the report on cuts to career fire depts? I missed it and was wondering if you could point it out to me.

[ny10570 745]

The only cuts to career I see is in the chiefs and commissioners.

[Doc 11]

I think there's a lot of change in the status quo going on here. This could either be the start of a more efficient, better delivery of servies to a larger community or an opportunity to create a new class of massive, faceless agency with less accountability to the taxpayers on local issues. In my own personal dealings with local government I've yet to find resolution through ANY county level agency.

Edited May 5, 2008 by Doc

[Bnechis 3,961]

New York State Commission on Local Government Efficiency and Competitiveness

Comprehensive List of Recommendations

6. Develop a simple petition process and petition form for use by citizens wishing to dissolve or consolidate towns, villages, fire districts, or special districts.

Wow I don't like my Fire District, I can start a petition in town to have it desolved.........

13. When technically feasible, all city, town, village, school district, fire district, special district, and library district elections should take place on one of two dates -- the general election date in November or a spring date.

14. County boards of elections should administer all general elections.

No more slip things past the voters. More than 50% of fire district elections have less than 100 voters and 66% of those had less than 50 voters. In all cases the majority of the voters were members of the FD or family. The average election has less then 2% of registered voters.

24. Require local government and school district employees to contribute, at a minimum, 10% (for individual coverage) and 25% (for dependent coverage) toward the cost of health insurance. Local governments would be free to negotiate higher employee contributions. This change would be phased in over five years as collective bargaining agreements expire.

This means even if you have it now or the community wants to pay 100% medical....you can not have it.......That hurts career ff's

31. Dissolve municipal civil service commissions (or functions) in cities or towns with populations under 100,000.

A city or town greater than 100,000 in population would be permitted to maintain an existing civil service function if so desired, but an affirmative referendum would be required.

That means Mt Vernon, New Rochelle & White Plains would hire thru the county. Unknown how this would affect the vulcan decree, however, I suspuct it would not change it, since the county and state also fall under it.

37. Require all E-911 calls and police, fire and emergency medical services dispatch to be done at the county level.

This might have an effect on all services. Harder to justify local agencies (particularly PD) once they no longer have dispatch.

38. The potential for moving to countywide management for fire protection and/or emergency medical services (EMS) should be reviewed in each county, with the goals of improving efficiency and service as well as preserving the volunteer system. If, after a factfinding and public discussion period, county leaders decide that some level of management for fire protection, EMS, or both would be appropriate at the county level, they may promulgate a plan which would be subject to voter approval through referendum prior to implementation. If approved by the voters, the county would have broad powers to coordinate services and review equipment and coverage decisions made by local service providers. If desired, and approved by the voters, the county plan may include transfer of paid (career) fire or EMS employees to the county at the option of the municipalities with the paid or mostly paid staff.

The start of county fire services. Note: the county could say...you no longer need to buy a tower ladder....

39. Allow towns to directly provide fire protection through the creation of a town-run fire department.

This could elliminate the following depts: Armonk, Archville, Banksville, Bedford, Bedford hills, Chappaqua, Croton, Croton Falls, Continental Village, Eastchester, Elmsford, Fairview, Goldens Bridge, Greenville, Harrison, Hartsdale, Hawthorne, Katonah, Millwood, Mohegan, Montrose, Pleasantville, Pocantico Hills, Pound Ridge?, Purchase, Somers, South Salem, Tarrytown (protection Dist?), Thornwood, Valhalla, Verplanck, Vista, West Harrison & Yorktown.

Thats 34 of the 58 Depts. would be elliminated and replaced with 15 depts.

Unclear what it would do with village depts. They include: Ardsley, Briarcliff, Buchanan, Dobbs Ferry, Hastings (or are they a district?), Irvington, Larchmont, Mamaroneck (V), Ossining, Pelham, Pelham Manor, Port Chester, Rye Brook, Sleepy Hollow

Thats 14 more.......In total we could go from 58 depts to 26.

40. Require that contracts with fire protection districts list categories of expenses so that officials and the public will have a better understanding of the costs for fire protection.

41. Require local governments to annually disseminate information on the costs for local fire protection, including the names and locations of

fire districts and fire companies, their annual budget, and debt.

42. Require each fire district to mail cards indicating the proper polling place for each voter to persons in the district who have registered with the board of elections.

See also #13 above

44. Require a state study of how fire protection is provided, including the numbers and types of entities providing protection, the geographic size and demography of service areas, response rates, costs, numbers of volunteer and career firefighters, and training received.

Boy is this sorely needed.

64. The following principles should be applied in making recommendations for aid to local governments:

Provide positive aid incentives for consolidation of services or localgovernment entities.

Consolidation of local services should not result in a reduction in state aid streams.

Where appropriate, state funding should be distributed to groups of municipalities who will design regional solutions to providing services, using the federal transportation funding practices as a model.

Aid formulas for cities, towns and villages should be class-neutral, not based on a designation as a city, town or village. (Size and density, among other characteristics, may be suitable substitutes.) Full transformation away from municipal class as an aid determinant will take some time, and should proceed in coordination with statutory changes in the treatment of municipalities. For counties, different funding approaches may reasonably be applied in relation

to the services they perform.

This is how they want us to due it (and how the state will help) prior to those that would be forced.

Edited May 5, 2008 by Bnechis

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Bnechis, it doesnt say you can't have 100% coverage. It says "at a minimum" 10% individual and 25% dependent. Meaning if your department/town wants more, you can get it. Thats a union issue though, the state can't really mandate that.

[SteveOFD 176]

39. Allow towns to directly provide fire protection through the creation of a town-run fire department.

This could elliminate the following depts: Armonk, Archville, Banksville, Bedford, Bedford hills, Chappaqua, Croton, Croton Falls, Continental Village, Eastchester, Elmsford, Fairview, Goldens Bridge, Greenville, Harrison, Hartsdale, Hawthorne, Katonah, Millwood, Mohegan, Montrose, Pleasantville, Pocantico Hills, Pound Ridge?, Purchase, Somers, South Salem, Tarrytown (protection Dist?), Thornwood, Valhalla, Verplanck, Vista, West Harrison & Yorktown.

Thats 34 of the 58 Depts. would be elliminated and replaced with 15 depts.

Unclear what it would do with village depts. They include: Ardsley, Briarcliff, Buchanan, Dobbs Ferry, Hastings (or are they a district?), Irvington, Larchmont, Mamaroneck (V), Ossining, Pelham, Pelham Manor, Port Chester, Rye Brook, Sleepy Hollow

FYI - Croton on Hudson and Tarrytown are Municipal (Village) FD's. I believe Elmsford is also a Village FD. Pleasantville is a Village, but the FD is a Fire District. Harrison and Mount Kisco are coterminus Town/Villages, I don't recall if they are Municipal or Fire District.

[Raz 14]

Wow, seeing it all laid out and broken down like that just makes it seem more lucrative. I sincerely hope this bill passes.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Bnechis, it doesnt say you can't have 100% coverage. It says "at a minimum" 10% individual and 25% dependent. Meaning if your department/town wants more, you can get it. Thats a union issue though, the state can't really mandate that.

24. Require local government and school district employees to contribute, at a minimum, 10% (for individual coverage) and 25% (for dependent coverage) toward the cost of health insurance. Local governments would be free to negotiate higher employee contributions. This change would be phased in over five years as collective bargaining agreements expire.

Reread it......How can they give me 100% when it clearly says that at a minimum the member pays 10%-25%

[Bnechis 3,961]

FYI - Croton on Hudson and Tarrytown are Municipal (Village) FD's. I believe Elmsford is also a Village FD. Pleasantville is a Village, but the FD is a Fire District. Harrison and Mount Kisco are coterminus Town/Villages, I don't recall if they are Municipal or Fire District.

Thanks for the input. Most of that was from memory.

This is what I could clear up. There maybe some minor issues:

Croton is a Village, I don't know if its a municipal or fire protection district in the village, but it also covers the fire protection districts of Mt. Airy and Quaker Bridge in the Town of Cortlandt

Tarrytown is a fire protection Dist that is contracted to the village (according to there web site)

Elmsford is a fire protection Dist that is contracted to the village (according to there web site)

Pleasantville is a Village, but the FD is a Fire District. Thats why I listed them as a dist.

Harrison is a fire protection Dist that is contracted to the village portion of town. Purchase & West Harrison plus a sliver under rye are covered by those depts.

Mount Kisco is a Municipal and because they are are coterminus Town/Villages it dosen't effect them.

[SteveOFD 176]

Croton is a Village, I don't know if its a municipal or fire protection district in the village, but it also covers the fire protection districts of Mt. Airy and Quaker Bridge in the Town of Cortlandt

Cap, I grew up in, and my first FD was Croton FD. CFD is a Municipal FD which does provide protection to the Districts noted that are in the Town of Cortlandt.

According to the following Village links Tarrytown, Elmsford, and Hastings, these three FD's are Departments of their Municipal Governments. TFD and EFD's websites do reference Fire Districts, but those I believe are mentioned because they cover Districts outside the Villages as CFD does in Cortlandt.

[Bnechis 3,961]

According to the following Village links Tarrytown, Elmsford, and Hastings, these three FD's are Departments of their Municipal Governments. TFD and EFD's websites do reference Fire Districts, but those I believe are mentioned because they cover Districts outside the Villages as CFD does in Cortlandt.

The Croton issue could mean that the cortlandt section would not be covered by them (or pay them for protection) and a new Cortlandt FD would cover.

The Tarrytown FD page says:

Mission Statement: To protect the lives and property of the citizens of the Village of Tarrytown, the Tarrytown Fire Protection Districts, the Town of Greenburgh, and our mutual aid response areas with the highest quality and consistently professional fire protection, rescue services, emergency management, and other public safety programs.

The Elmsford FD page says: Welcome to the Official Site for Elmsford Fire Department: Thank you for visiting.

The Elmsford Fire Department is ........, providing the highest quality Fire and EMS service to the Village of Elmsford and our Fire Protection Districts

The Hastings FD Page did not say, but had an interesting line: "Hastings enjoys one the lowest fire insurance rates possible for a community with a volunteer department."

The best ISO rating for a VFD is #1, There are no #1's in the Hudson Valley. There are 3 ISO 32's in Westchester and HFD is not one of them. I don't know there rating, but its not 1 or 2.

It does not really matter what type of dept. any of these depts are, but I believe the proposal will effect everyone if it goes thru, some for the better and some not. I just wanted to document where I found my info.

[mdm911 5]

Does anyone know if a city and a town, in NY, can form a fire district together or not? I cannot find a straight answer yes or no on this. I read that a city is required to provided fire protection. It also states that this is "typically" provided through a municipal fire department. What are the other options? A private contractor? Could the city contract with a fire district in a town and create a fire protection district?

[steve shryock 0]

Hastings is a municipal FD.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

24. Require local government and school district employees to contribute, at a minimum, 10% (for individual coverage) and 25% (for dependent coverage) toward the cost of health insurance. Local governments would be free to negotiate higher employee contributions. This change would be phased in over five years as collective bargaining agreements expire.

Reread it......How can they give me 100% when it clearly says that at a minimum the member pays 10%-25%

Sorry, you're right. I'd be against it just for that.

[ex-commish 490]

Does this apply to ems districts as well?

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I'd imagine so, since they are wanting to overhaul all aspects of government.

[fire2141 33]

So lets see, this consolidation would give more control of the fire to the same bureaucrats who are in charge of highway maint., parks and rec. animal control, yada, yada. I'm not convinced that this would do anything but enflame the volunteers and increase response times. I do agree that some of the firehouse are what you might call wretched excess. Go ahead fire away at me.

[paratrooper75 41]

I do agree that some of the firehouse are what you might call wretched excess. Go ahead fire away at me.

What are you talking about? That $700,000 tanker that goes out ten times a year is a 100% neccesity.

[fire2141 33]

What are you talking about? That $700,000 tanker that goes out ten times a year is a 100% neccesity.

I believe the tanker in my department cost $180,000. It's a basic tanker. Don't have too many other choices with few hydrants in town. In actuality we still have a 68 Mack CF in service as well as a 76 mini attack.