Richland County EMS South Carolina

[Oswegowind 17]

Well, as unpopular as it is, I think I will side with the EMS agency on this one. Here's why: I don't anyone not from my agency driving my bus. Period. I don't know them, I haven't worked with them or trained them. I have no control over them.

Exactly as someone else pointed out, EGO.

If they can drive a fire truck or a police car, they can drive an ambulance. It all comes down to having to have control of every situation. I don't think they have to drive, but they can hop in the back and lend a hand. As well, if they are driving and they get out of control, just turn around with a needle in hand and let them know to chill out and slow down or they are getting the next dose, themselves!

[STAT213 332]

Exactly as someone else pointed out, EGO.

If they can drive a fire truck or a police car, they can drive an ambulance. It all comes down to having to have control of every situation. I don't think they have to drive, but they can hop in the back and lend a hand. As well, if they are driving and they get out of control, just turn around with a needle in hand and let them know to chill out and slow down or they are getting the next dose, themselves!

For some, it may be ego. Not for me in the example I gave above. It was company policy, and there were valid reasons for it. You may like to have a random FF, cop or whoever drive your buggy. I do not. Its a difference in practice.

[Skooter92 7]

This is an excellent argument for cross-training or at least familiarization and working out roles, to allow other public safety personnel to do more than stand there. It has worked in Stamford and multiple other places I have worked for years. Plus, sometimes it seems like they drive a little safer than my partner

[Guest MVFD334]

Exactly as someone else pointed out, EGO.

If they can drive a fire truck or a police car, they can drive an ambulance. It all comes down to having to have control of every situation. I don't think they have to drive, but they can hop in the back and lend a hand. As well, if they are driving and they get out of control, just turn around with a needle in hand and let them know to chill out and slow down or they are getting the next dose, themselves!

Actually there is a big difference between a cop car, firetruck and an ambulance.. Ambulances and firetrucks are not vehicles you just get in throw on a siren and go. You have people standing in the back of an ambulance working over a patient with sharps, you got lights and sirens blaring, you got a patient who even though is strapped to a stretcher they feel every bump and hole you hit. Forget a firetruck, between airbrakes, the weight of the water shifting around, and not to mention both of these vehicles have huge blindspots as well as large turning radius's. If you belong to a department I can guarantee their is a member that when they drive your belting yourself in before you pull out the door. Sure anyone can figure out how to put a vehicle in gear and most likely get from point a to point b with no problems, but I sure as hell dont wanna be the guinea pig in the back. Having control means having experience.

[Oswegowind 17]

Listen I never said anyone should just jump in and drive a fire truck!

An ambulance is basically a van with a bigger box. Half the driver's I had couldn't drive for $hit anyways! A cop or firefighter needs no extensive training to drive an ambulance. We did it all the time in Yonkers, better to have the best hands in the back and leave the driving to someone else. Only once did I have to say anything to a FF about slowing down cause he was nervous! How many times did I have to give my so called partner instructions/directions, a lot more than that! Sorry but you don't have to be a genius to drive an ambulance! If life and death are the deciding factors, fore go the policy and do what is morally right!

Except when x901 or DG were driving...

Reason for edit: didn't want to piss off my favorite chauffeurs!

Edited May 7, 2008 by Oswegowind

[Guest Yankee medic]

To start off with don't shoot the messenger. I see both sides of the fence. I am a vollie with the Columcia FD (ST 20) and also a medic with Richland county Ems. I have 18yrs between fd/ems. With 16 being with ems. Starting career with HHC (NYC*EMS) and other agencies in Dutchess County.

I would have to agree with the medic from NH that it's a policy not to let any fd go to hospital withthe unit. Do I agree with this NO. The whole thing is a city verse county govt. problem. The paid guys at my station don't want to drive our units but assist when our back-up is coming from a distance. Evan though they have a whole lot more driver traing than we do. Their EVDT class is 40 hrs long plus driving the rig nonemergent with the capt. till he/she feels comfortable with letting them drive emergent. Our class is 4hrs long watching videos and then we go out with the supervisor in their truck driving emergent/nonemergent. Then u go on the unit itself and do the same thing over till you are cleared to drive.

I believe the reporter doing the story should have done alot more research before airing the story. Funny how no other news agencies picked up the story. If this was bothering the retired BC so much why didn't he come forward sooner?? Because the City of Columbia FD didn't want anything to do with the story.

If I was in this situation with a pediatric danm right I will take the ff and I will take my suspension and grief it. Thanks for reading my little rant Have a good day

[Guest girliemedic]

I noticed that everyone is discussing the policy of the agency not letting FD drive the ambulance, but the article also states that FD is not permitted to work inside the back of the ambulance. I can see not allowing FD to drive, my VAC has this policy as well (it's an insurance thing), but to not let them in the back to help is absurd. Many times I have had FD in the back with me both in my Vol agency and at my paid job. As long as they are CPR certified I'll take the extra help anytime. To have a policy in effect like that agency is putting lives at risk.

[ny10570 745]

Thanks yankee medic for the info.

[NWFDMedic 58]

I'll repeat what I said before, after your initial stabilization efforts, its time to go. They obviously weren't able to stabilize him as he's now deceased. No reason to wait, even if it means one guy in the back when no one else is available.

Unfortunately, someone was available in this case and they were not utilized in any form.

The particular "Myers case" seems to be a bit vague. If this gentleman was actually short of breath and the primary crew thought it was appropriate to do vitals, O2, EKG, maybe 12 lead, IV and maybe some appropriate 1st level medications, I can more than see that taking 10 minutes. If it was 10 minutes they waited AFTER the initial treatment was done, then there is an issue. I have been on scene before while performing initial stabilizing care (or first round care) and asked by family why we aren't "just going" and I generally do not like sitting on scenes.

The policy referenced in Richland County definitely needs to be amended. These firefighters have at least CFR level training and should be able to assist a medic in the back of the ambulance. I believe my agency's policy is to have the additional support in the back of the ambulance and the employee driving unless there are extremely extenuating circumstances. In those circumstances, the outside agency personnel used to drive the ambulance must be a qualified driver for whatever agency they responded with.

[Guest Yankee medic]

The particular "Myers case" seems to be a bit vague. If this gentleman was actually short of breath and the primary crew thought it was appropriate to do vitals, O2, EKG, maybe 12 lead, IV and maybe some appropriate 1st level medications, I can more than see that taking 10 minutes. If it was 10 minutes they waited AFTER the initial treatment was done, then there is an issue. I have been on scene before while performing initial stabilizing care (or first round care) and asked by family why we aren't "just going" and I generally do not like sitting on scenes.

The policy referenced in Richland County definitely needs to be amended. These firefighters have at least CFR level training and should be able to assist a medic in the back of the ambulance. I believe my agency's policy is to have the additional support in the back of the ambulance and the employee driving unless there are extremely extenuating circumstances. In those circumstances, the outside agency personnel used to drive the ambulance must be a qualified driver for whatever agency they responded with.

[Guest Yankee medic]

Let me reply to nwfdmedic by saying it is a pissing contest between our boss and fd. I would love to have fd in the back of my truck helping but fd isn't on our insurance. And once again it is county verse city govt. In Richland county fd and ems are not under the same umbrella like the counties that surround us. Do I feel we should all be one yes. But will not happen NO buracratic bs.

The arrest in question. The pt went into resp arrest while being taken to the truck. Medic called to have fd ride in back for help he was denied. Told to wait for back-up which I was about 5-10 minuted away. Pt arrested prior to me arriving on scene. Do I feel the medic should have left scene sure. You can bag a pt, attempt tube or cmbi-tube them. Meet your back-up enroute to ER. Also pt. just released from hosp. after having surgery. SOB from possible PE. pt about 300-350 lbs. That didn't help matters either

Due I feel our policy needs to change to get up with the times yes. But will not happen under current administration.

In a nut shell it's politics at its finest. And the ones to get hurt will/are the pts. Thank you have a ice day.

[NWFDMedic 58]

Let me reply to nwfdmedic by saying it is a pissing contest between our boss and fd. I would love to have fd in the back of my truck helping but fd isn't on our insurance. And once again it is county verse city govt. In Richland county fd and ems are not under the same umbrella like the counties that surround us. Do I feel we should all be one yes. But will not happen NO buracratic bs.

The arrest in question. The pt went into resp arrest while being taken to the truck. Medic called to have fd ride in back for help he was denied. Told to wait for back-up which I was about 5-10 minuted away. Pt arrested prior to me arriving on scene. Do I feel the medic should have left scene sure. You can bag a pt, attempt tube or cmbi-tube them. Meet your back-up enroute to ER. Also pt. just released from hosp. after having surgery. SOB from possible PE. pt about 300-350 lbs. That didn't help matters either

Due I feel our policy needs to change to get up with the times yes. But will not happen under current administration.

In a nut shell it's politics at its finest. And the ones to get hurt will/are the pts. Thank you have a ice day.

Thanks for the info right from the source. I'm sure most of the street level providers there (fire and EMS) are out for the best for your patients. We all have some political issues in the systems in which we work. Best of luck getting them straightened out.