Sean Bell Verdict

[ny10570 745]

I thought it was pretty clear that these detectives had a perceived threat to their life. They were informed that Bell's group was going to get a gun. They see him get into his car and reach for what they thought was a gun so they draw their weapons and approach the vehicle. Now if you were Bell and you see a bunch of guys in street clothing holding guns and you're behind the wheel of a car whats your first reaction? Personally I wouldn't be checking to see if they were cops or not. So he put the car in gear and went after the guys holding guns. At this point the lives of the detectives are at risk so they opened fire. Seemed pretty simple to me. Was 31 shots excessive when all together only 50 were fired maybe, but that wasn't the issue and thats something to be handled internally.

[khas143 13]

I am going to get ridiculed by this but I have to say this..

we have to remember not one of us were there so who are we to judge the situation. Not one of you have a right to lay judgment on anyone that was at that scene because all we have to go by is newspaper reports and how reliable is that?

Fact: The perp was shot at 50 times and had no gun....

Problem??? YES??? no way a racist issue now come on... 50 times, reloaded and shot more.. I mean really if the person had a gun to someones head holding them hostage maybe.

There are other ways to handle and the police officers on this site can correct me if I am wrong.

If you take offense to this sorry but it is my opinion....

How is it possible that you say , "Not one of you have a right to lay judgement" but in almost the same breath, you start doing that exact same thing. You say nobody has the facts and then say that it would only be justified if they were holding a hostage??? What sense does that make?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Oneeye...awesome post brother.

Unless anyone has been trained to deal with or has been in a deadly force encounter you have no idea what physiological effects occur and the stress imposed. As been stated, you shoot until the threat has been alleviated. Throw in visual changes, auditory exclusion, hyper awareness, acoustics from multiple weapons being fired and that is how 50 shots are fired. All while making a decision within a 1/2 second or less or a command coming from someone who you work with and have to entrust your safety as well in. Someone yells gun, you take note, someone yells gun and opens fire and you see the threat they are responding to you respond as well. There are no 2nd chances when you are in that encounter and I for one get tired of the air bags who judge these situations when the most they have to worry about is what next tragedy they can play off of, or if their next chest pain is a the big one from sucking down another cheeseburger or just indigestion.

I'm glad they got off. The trial was nothing but a political push. You have a case like this..sad as it was, which was not criminal, should be in civil court only and it is on the news every day and night for months. A police officer responds to a threat, kills a perp saving a civilian, him/her self, his/her partner or a combination thereof and all you hear is a 20 second speech the same all the time "a xxx police officer shot and killed a person who attempted to shoot them with a gun today, no officers were injured in the incident." I feel for the family of Sean Bell, it is very sad and my thoughts go out to them. But it was in no way criminal. Similiar to the incident in White Plains...no criminal intentions, but yet we hear time and time again, "I feel he was assasinated." No sense in the comment, no sense in the words. Emotion brings out bad things, but so do irresponsible people who have no investment into the families just their images. Thank a police officer today for doing what they do and for the decisions they just may have to make and even worse live with later.

[NYRangers30 1]

I thought it was pretty clear that these detectives had a perceived threat to their life. They were informed that Bell's group was going to get a gun. They see him get into his car and reach for what they thought was a gun so they draw their weapons and approach the vehicle. Now if you were Bell and you see a bunch of guys in street clothing holding guns and you're behind the wheel of a car whats your first reaction? Personally I wouldn't be checking to see if they were cops or not. So he put the car in gear and went after the guys holding guns. At this point the lives of the detectives are at risk so they opened fire. Seemed pretty simple to me. Was 31 shots excessive when all together only 50 were fired maybe, but that wasn't the issue and thats something to be handled internally.

This is not to mention the face that Bell attempted to use his vehicle as a weapon by ramming the detectives with it

[Guest MVFD334]

LCFD968 just stated his opinion. ALS firefighter you speak as if you where personally involved with this particular case. The officers acted in the way they where trained. Point taken. But the fact of the matter is someone died and actions had to explained. It sucks that the officers had to relive the moment over through a court case, but could you possibly imagine the aftermath if they were just patted on the back and said job well done? The Bell supporters are never going to feel that justice was served. All 3 of those officers could have received the death penalty and they would still b**** in one way or another.

[Guest feraldan]

I can't understand why so few people comprehend the reason 50 shots were fired. I had an argument with a boss awhile back right around the time the incident happened. His argument was that 50 shots was excessive no matter how you cut it. My argument was that they probably didn't even know they had fired 50 shots until it was all over. He said that was impossible.

Have none of these people ever had an experience with adrenaline where they seemingly covered a large distance in a short period or time or something similar? Reactions like that distort the perception of time and physical response speed. There are documented cases of police and soldiers entering life-threatening situations and firing a few times only to have their firearms "jam". Except after the incident ends, they realize the weapon did not malfunction, they merely emptied the magazine without perceiving that they had fired "X" number of rounds.

A lot of people can't buy into that or understand it, but then not too many of those people have seen their partners almost run over by a car or been in life or death situations (perceived or otherwise.)

[calhobs 110]

I think where the problem for many people comes in is that one Officer fired and emptied a clip and then reloaded and continued firing. (I am not sure how many rounds he got off after he reloaded) But the possibility is there for him to fire 26 shots (not sure how many rounds a clip holds). 26 shots are half the total shots fired, and this came from one Officer. I personally would empty every thing I had until the car stopped.

[ny10570 745]

To reverend Al, this was absolutely racial. Blue vs Black. http://www.imeem.com/people/RbBTwi/music/-...anthony_rev_al/

[nycemt728 49]

So, so far everyone's happy that there was an aquittal and the officers are vindicated etc etc but can no one see the potential harm to this situation??? Everyone correctly identified that there is great anger about the verdict, do cops really think that this will win them the respect they deserve and want on the streets? Bottom line, there have been three police related shootings in the past few years with no legal consequence to police, I can say its a pretty good bet that we can see the same type of reaction to police that we saw in this particular incident. So, yes rejoice the the detectives got off, but I would say that we're in for another shoe to drop. Cops demand respect, (and ideally should be given), but if you fear for your life, thats the last thing on your mind....that fear combined with the lack of respct/heed of cops orders leads to the exact same situation we had last november, dangerous for both cops and civilians.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

So, so far everyone's happy that there was an aquittal and the officers are vindicated etc etc but can no one see the potential harm to this situation??? Everyone correctly identified that there is great anger about the verdict, do cops really think that this will win them the respect they deserve and want on the streets? Bottom line, there have been three police related shootings in the past few years with no legal consequence to police, I can say its a pretty good bet that we can see the same type of reaction to police that we saw in this particular incident. So, yes rejoice the the detectives got off, but I would say that we're in for another shoe to drop. Cops demand respect, (and ideally should be given), but if you fear for your life, thats the last thing on your mind....that fear combined with the lack of respct/heed of cops orders leads to the exact same situation we had last november, dangerous for both cops and civilians.

If for every once in awhile somebody came on TV and actually stated that the person injured or killed by the POLICE was wrong for what they did the TENSION would ease. Everybody shows their yearbook picture on the news and in the paper and says that their relative was a good boy/girl. Come on now. The fact is some if not most of these people are BAD. You think the Police set up in an area where they think good people are? NO. These Criminals don't care about anyone but themselves.

The pot is being stirred here. If you can't see that you should open your eyes a little more. Sharpton has an agenda. We should have nipped this in the bud back in the day with Tawana Brawley. But we gave him the reigns and has run with it ever since.

I followed this case pretty close. Mostly read in the paper because I got sick of watching the people on the news. I have to tell you that I didn't think the officers would be acquited. I thought at least Reckless Endangerment. One of the shots hit a Subway platform or something like that. I especially thought that because they didn't allow change of venue. In the Diallo case that was a big deal to me. But in the end the defense lawyers rolled the dice with a Judge only trial. And you have to look at some of the facts that came out for the prosecution.

Respect is what everyone should give and take. Of course there are going to be people not happy with the POLICE. Hey we right tickets and we take away people's freedom. Why do we do that? BECAUSE YOU DID SOMETHING WRONG.

[ny10570 745]

So, so far everyone's happy that there was an aquittal and the officers are vindicated etc etc but can no one see the potential harm to this situation??? Everyone correctly identified that there is great anger about the verdict, do cops really think that this will win them the respect they deserve and want on the streets? Bottom line, there have been three police related shootings in the past few years with no legal consequence to police, I can say its a pretty good bet that we can see the same type of reaction to police that we saw in this particular incident. So, yes rejoice the the detectives got off, but I would say that we're in for another shoe to drop. Cops demand respect, (and ideally should be given), but if you fear for your life, thats the last thing on your mind....that fear combined with the lack of respct/heed of cops orders leads to the exact same situation we had last november, dangerous for both cops and civilians.

So what should have happened?

[ny10570 745]

Here's an excellent post that was forwarded to me from another forum...

To Whom This May Concern,

Your coverage of the Sean Bell incident from beginning to end has been absolutely horrible, irresponsible and criminal. Not only have you chosen to selectively cover bits and pieces in the case, but you have also fanned the flames of racial tensions that are undeniably alive in the City, partially created by your irresponsible and sensational reporting.

Sean Bell and his friends were not saints as you make them out to be. They were the scourge of the City. Responsible for countless deaths, violence, and needless addictions against their own people. Their night on the town was not an innocent get together of friends to reminisce on the old times before he made his final commitment to his long time girlfriend. This particular night out was a continuation of his past nights out of fights, drug use, and talk of gunplay. You conveniently forget to mention the past convictions of gun possession, controlled substance sales and the fact that Trent Benefield couldn't even stay out of trouble after this incident, beating his pregnant girlfriend bloody last year.

On the other hand, you choose to make villains out of 3 men who have sworn to protect the City and did so without incident or loss to life until that fateful night. You choose to ignore the fact that none of the Cops involved in the shooting were white, including Det. Oliver who is of Lebanese decent, creating innuendo's that because his appearance is white, he's is so in fact white and that racism was in play.

Sean Bell was not unarmed that night. He was armed and he used his weapon of choice, a 3200lb Nissan Altima that he struck down a Police Officer with and hit an unmarked Police Van twice. This criminal was not a stranger to the criminal justice system and I have no doubt in my mind that he had his gut feeling that they were Cops that he was about to run over, just as we had a gut feeling that he was up to no good.

This was not a tragedy. You can sugarcoat this all you want, but Sean Bells lifestyle, his choices in life, and his choices that night sealed his fate. This is not a tragedy nor is this a unique story. If you choose to live a life of crime, most likely you will die a violent death. The only tragedy here is what 3 detectives had to go through for politcal reaons and yet another african american child is without a father due to his choices in life. This is the true tragedy.

As far as the prosecution is concerned, you can try and blame them all you want. The prosecution was poor because there was no case to begin with. You had 3 men politically indicted without regard of the Penal Law in which they clearly did not violate. You had witnesses on the stand that changed their story 3, 4 , and 5 times. You had witness that told stories that contained physical impossibilities. You had witnesses that would do anything it takes to take a cop down with them. You had witnesses that had been paid off by Al Sharpton or given back door deals on pending cases by the DA's office to "cooperate" and testify. You also had witnesses on the stand that got testy and showed their propensity for violent outbursts, even in protected environment such as a Court Room. No, the Judge did not have a hard time reflecting on this case and coming down with a verdict. That's because there was no case.

So if I can build a time machine and tell my brothers what will happen if they decide to take focus of their case and try to save a possible homicide from happening in front of their eyes, what would the headlines say the next day? I'll tell you:

"Past criminal kills family of 4 in drunken accident after Cops ignore man going to his car in a drunken stuper, focusing on sting operation instead"

or

"Cops sitting inside club, doing sting operation, ignore talk of gunplay as violence erupts outside , 3 dead, 1 wounded....Where were the Police?"

Either way in the eyes of the media, we cannot win. Maybe you should look in the mirror and you will see part of the recruitment and retention problem the NYPD has. Next time you are the victim of a crime, why don't you call Guzman or Benefield for help because according to you, they are the Heros and we are the Villains.

If there happens to be violence, besides the ones perpetrating the violence, I will personally hold each and every one of you "reporters" civilly liable if anything happens to me or my relatives for fanning the flames of racial tension by failing to report the truth.

On a further note I'd like to personally tell Gabe Pressman to go fvck himself. Go fvck yourself Gabe.

SGB

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Awesome letter. Obviously a COP wrote that and hits every point. Like I said. They weren't CHOIR BOYS.

[DOC22 1]

Excellent letter!! I think it speaks volumes of truth about the press!

[ex-commish 490]

So, so far everyone's happy that there was an aquittal and the officers are vindicated etc etc but can no one see the potential harm to this situation??? Everyone correctly identified that there is great anger about the verdict, do cops really think that this will win them the respect they deserve and want on the streets? Bottom line, there have been three police related shootings in the past few years with no legal consequence to police, I can say its a pretty good bet that we can see the same type of reaction to police that we saw in this particular incident. So, yes rejoice the the detectives got off, but I would say that we're in for another shoe to drop. Cops demand respect, (and ideally should be given), but if you fear for your life, thats the last thing on your mind....that fear combined with the lack of respct/heed of cops orders leads to the exact same situation we had last november, dangerous for both cops and civilians.

I do not think anyone is rejoicing as you put it. There were no winners here. A life was lost and many others ruined. It is unfair to judge a split second decision made by these three officers. Apparently the judge did not buy the prosecutions case and questioned the crediblity of the witnesses. These officers did not get up that morning and plan to kill anyone. They responded to a threat and handled it based on thier training. What the liberal media doesn't repeat over and over is the attempt to run one of the cops over. His clothes were embedded in the bumper of the car.

This was no doubt a tradegy that resulted in a young life lost but by no means was a crime committed and the judge agreed.

[BIGRED1 71]

I think that we can shut Rev Al up if they reminded everyone about Tawana Brawley every time he comes out for a protest. Let his name be dragged through the mud day in and day out. He wont be showing up everytime some criminal gets shot by the police. I was happy to see that the officers were not white, because that took all the wind out of his sails. He had to ditch the old reliable "Race Card"

Like someone said these boys were not on their way to church. they were thugs who were for once NOT committing a crime, until they try to run some people over. Notice i did not say police officers, no Sean was trying to run some people over. Last i checked thats Hit and run, maybe reckless endangerment? Not sure but i think you can see what i am saying.

[Guest feraldan]

Notice i did not say police officers, no Sean was trying to run some people over. Last i checked thats Hit and run, maybe reckless endangerment? Not sure but i think you can see what i am saying.

Devil's advocate: if someone was pointing a gun at me and I didn't know they were police officers, I'd run them down with my vehicle too. That's self-defense.

Although I absolutely do not believe that is what occurred in this situation.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I am going to get ridiculed by this but I have to say this..

we have to remember not one of us were there so who are we to judge the situation. Not one of you have a right to lay judgment on anyone that was at that scene because all we have to go by is newspaper reports and how reliable is that?

Fact: The perp was shot at 50 times and had no gun....

Problem??? YES??? no way a racist issue now come on... 50 times, reloaded and shot more.. I mean really if the person had a gun to someones head holding them hostage maybe.

There are other ways to handle and the police officers on this site can correct me if I am wrong.

If you take offense to this sorry but it is my opinion....

You are either twisting the facts or not understanding them, neither is good. One officer fired 31 rounds, one fired 11, 1 fired four rounds. The remainer of the shots came from Detectives who were not charged. Nobody fired 50 times, but lets do the math on the officer who fired 31 rounds.

-NYPD Standard Issue firearm is the Glock 17.

-A Glock G17 9mm Parabellum handgun has a magazine of 17 rounds. Add to that the additional round which would have been loaded into the chamber and you have 18.

RECAP: 17 + 1 = 18

-Now, the Detective proceeded to reload and fire another 13 rounds from a second magazine. That's 13 rounds from a 17 round magazine.

-The Practical Rate of Fire (PRoF) for the Glock 17 semi-automatic handgun is 40 rounds per minute. So the officer was only firing at 77% of the attainable PRoF of the weapon, a very easy feat for someone well trained on the Glock handgun. The officer would have been firing for 46 seconds, not a very long time when a car is repeatedly ramming you.

The officers acted in what they (and I) believed to be the course of defending themselves, therefore the shooting should be justified.

Also, Al Sharpton should get a job, and stop seeking sound bytes of himself.

[Jared1979 19]

Here's an excellent post that was forwarded to me from another forum...

To Whom This May Concern,

Your coverage of the Sean Bell incident from beginning to end has been absolutely horrible, irresponsible and criminal. Not only have you chosen to selectively cover bits and pieces in the case, but you have also fanned the flames of racial tensions that are undeniably alive in the City, partially created by your irresponsible and sensational reporting.

Sean Bell and his friends were not saints as you make them out to be. They were the scourge of the City. Responsible for countless deaths, violence, and needless addictions against their own people. Their night on the town was not an innocent get together of friends to reminisce on the old times before he made his final commitment to his long time girlfriend. This particular night out was a continuation of his past nights out of fights, drug use, and talk of gunplay. You conveniently forget to mention the past convictions of gun possession, controlled substance sales and the fact that Trent Benefield couldn't even stay out of trouble after this incident, beating his pregnant girlfriend bloody last year.

On the other hand, you choose to make villains out of 3 men who have sworn to protect the City and did so without incident or loss to life until that fateful night. You choose to ignore the fact that none of the Cops involved in the shooting were white, including Det. Oliver who is of Lebanese decent, creating innuendo's that because his appearance is white, he's is so in fact white and that racism was in play.

Sean Bell was not unarmed that night. He was armed and he used his weapon of choice, a 3200lb Nissan Altima that he struck down a Police Officer with and hit an unmarked Police Van twice. This criminal was not a stranger to the criminal justice system and I have no doubt in my mind that he had his gut feeling that they were Cops that he was about to run over, just as we had a gut feeling that he was up to no good.

This was not a tragedy. You can sugarcoat this all you want, but Sean Bells lifestyle, his choices in life, and his choices that night sealed his fate. This is not a tragedy nor is this a unique story. If you choose to live a life of crime, most likely you will die a violent death. The only tragedy here is what 3 detectives had to go through for politcal reaons and yet another african american child is without a father due to his choices in life. This is the true tragedy.

As far as the prosecution is concerned, you can try and blame them all you want. The prosecution was poor because there was no case to begin with. You had 3 men politically indicted without regard of the Penal Law in which they clearly did not violate. You had witnesses on the stand that changed their story 3, 4 , and 5 times. You had witness that told stories that contained physical impossibilities. You had witnesses that would do anything it takes to take a cop down with them. You had witnesses that had been paid off by Al Sharpton or given back door deals on pending cases by the DA's office to "cooperate" and testify. You also had witnesses on the stand that got testy and showed their propensity for violent outbursts, even in protected environment such as a Court Room. No, the Judge did not have a hard time reflecting on this case and coming down with a verdict. That's because there was no case.

So if I can build a time machine and tell my brothers what will happen if they decide to take focus of their case and try to save a possible homicide from happening in front of their eyes, what would the headlines say the next day? I'll tell you:

"Past criminal kills family of 4 in drunken accident after Cops ignore man going to his car in a drunken stuper, focusing on sting operation instead"

or

"Cops sitting inside club, doing sting operation, ignore talk of gunplay as violence erupts outside , 3 dead, 1 wounded....Where were the Police?"

Either way in the eyes of the media, we cannot win. Maybe you should look in the mirror and you will see part of the recruitment and retention problem the NYPD has. Next time you are the victim of a crime, why don't you call Guzman or Benefield for help because according to you, they are the Heros and we are the Villains.

If there happens to be violence, besides the ones perpetrating the violence, I will personally hold each and every one of you "reporters" civilly liable if anything happens to me or my relatives for fanning the flames of racial tension by failing to report the truth.

On a further note I'd like to personally tell Gabe Pressman to go fvck himself. Go fvck yourself Gabe.

SGB

This has a great point to it I hope Al Sharpton reads before brain washes anyone else with racist nonsense

[ny10570 745]

Devil's advocate: if someone was pointing a gun at me and I didn't know they were police officers, I'd run them down with my vehicle too. That's self-defense.

Although I absolutely do not believe that is what occurred in this situation.

Thats what the judge believed happened. Bell thought someone was going to shoot him so he attempted to run them over. Once he attempted to run the officers over they opened fire. So what do you think happened?

[LCFD968 10]

Lets recap...

I am glad they were let off but I believe there was an issue (not criminal) that 50 rounds were shot off. JUST MY OPINION. It can be a training issue , adrenaline issue, caught up in the moment or whatever it seems a lot from a non police officer stand. If that is laying judgment then yes I am doing what I am preaching not to do and I apologize.

so Help me here, educate me if you will: Did they know that officers were in the mini van? I understand the percentages and but still not following your logic. One officer fired 31 times, one shot 11 and one of them fired 4 times was the threat not equally felt? When you say that detectives shot but not charged I am to assume that they were the 7 remaining shot that were fired between them, also threat not equally felt? Nobody sees a problem with one officer shooting 87% more than one officer and 64% more than another in the same amount of time that was stated here (46sec)?

For you to insulate me and my profession you can go take a hike Takleberry and I am glad I don't dispatch for you. If you have a problem with my opinion PM me.

Also understand I respect all officers (if you know me you there isn't even a question).

Edited April 28, 2008 by LCFD968

[Guest feraldan]

Thats what the judge believed happened. Bell thought someone was going to shoot him so he attempted to run them over. Once he attempted to run the officers over they opened fire. So what do you think happened?

Huh? The judge acquitted them which means he and I are most likely in agreement. I believe they properly identified themselves as law enforcement and Bell still tried to run them down despite it.

That was the entire point of the case more or less. Did they identify themselves as law enforcement? Was Bell acting to defend his life or was he resisting arrest and attempting to kill the detectives with his vehicle.

I was responding to ECLEMENTE who said even if they weren't police officers, it was still a crime to try and run them down. I disagreed because if someone who was not law enforcement pointed a firearm at me, I'd run them down too. Its not a crime if its self-defense, even though you still might get charged or sued after the fact. However that's not what I believe occurred. I obviously believe that they identified themselves properly so there's no reason to try and run them over, only comply.

Do you get what I'm trying to say here?

[helicopper 1,050]

Lets recap...

I am glad they were let off but I believe there was an issue (not criminal) that 50 rounds were shot off. JUST MY OPINION. It can be a training issue , adrenaline issue, caught up in the moment or whatever it seems a lot from a non police officer stand. If that is laying judgment then yes I am doing what I am preaching not to do and I apologize.

so Help me here, educate me if you will: Did they know that officers were in the mini van? I understand the percentages and but still not following your logic. One officer fired 31 times, one shot 11 and one of them fired 4 times was the threat not equally felt? When you say that detectives shot but not charged I am to assume that they were the 7 remaining shot that were fired between them, also threat not equally felt? Nobody sees a problem with one officer shooting 87% more than one officer and 64% more than another in the same amount of time that was stated here (46sec)?

For you to insulate me and my profession you can go take a hike Takleberry and I am glad I don't dispatch for you. If you have a problem with my opinion PM me.

Also understand I respect all officers (if you know me you there isn't even a question).

It is nearly impossible to analyze a situation such as this without having been there. So many variables make the situation different. Maybe the officer who fired 31 times was closest to the vehicle that Bell rammed. Maybe he was between vehicles and had no escape route causing him to perceive a greater threat than the other officers who fired less. Perhaps, in the thick of the adrenaline filled minute, he thought he was being fired upon when he heard the other officers fire. Did the vehicle stop immediately or did it keep spinning its wheels, bouncing off cars, causing the officers to fear that they were still being threatened with harm. Was it a training issue? Was it the fact that they were all tired (it was after all like 4 AM) and not functioning at 100%?

We'll likely never know the answers to these questions and all the others that you can come with as you "what-if" the scenario.

There were lots of problems with this incident but I never believed that there was any criminal culpability so I'm glad they were acquitted. As someone already posted, now they'll have to defend against the civil and departmental trials and those surely won't be pretty!

As for the differences of opinion, we're all entitled to them. There's no need to take personal shots at each other over them!

[Bababoosky 24]

Here's an excellent post that was forwarded to me from another forum...

To Whom This May Concern,

Your coverage of the Sean Bell incident from beginning to end has been absolutely horrible, irresponsible and criminal. Not only have you chosen to selectively cover bits and pieces in the case, but you have also fanned the flames of racial tensions that are undeniably alive in the City, partially created by your irresponsible and sensational reporting.

Sean Bell and his friends were not saints as you make them out to be. They were the scourge of the City. Responsible for countless deaths, violence, and needless addictions against their own people. Their night on the town was not an innocent get together of friends to reminisce on the old times before he made his final commitment to his long time girlfriend. This particular night out was a continuation of his past nights out of fights, drug use, and talk of gunplay. You conveniently forget to mention the past convictions of gun possession, controlled substance sales and the fact that Trent Benefield couldn't even stay out of trouble after this incident, beating his pregnant girlfriend bloody last year.

On the other hand, you choose to make villains out of 3 men who have sworn to protect the City and did so without incident or loss to life until that fateful night. You choose to ignore the fact that none of the Cops involved in the shooting were white, including Det. Oliver who is of Lebanese decent, creating innuendo's that because his appearance is white, he's is so in fact white and that racism was in play.

Sean Bell was not unarmed that night. He was armed and he used his weapon of choice, a 3200lb Nissan Altima that he struck down a Police Officer with and hit an unmarked Police Van twice. This criminal was not a stranger to the criminal justice system and I have no doubt in my mind that he had his gut feeling that they were Cops that he was about to run over, just as we had a gut feeling that he was up to no good.

This was not a tragedy. You can sugarcoat this all you want, but Sean Bells lifestyle, his choices in life, and his choices that night sealed his fate. This is not a tragedy nor is this a unique story. If you choose to live a life of crime, most likely you will die a violent death. The only tragedy here is what 3 detectives had to go through for politcal reaons and yet another african american child is without a father due to his choices in life. This is the true tragedy.

As far as the prosecution is concerned, you can try and blame them all you want. The prosecution was poor because there was no case to begin with. You had 3 men politically indicted without regard of the Penal Law in which they clearly did not violate. You had witnesses on the stand that changed their story 3, 4 , and 5 times. You had witness that told stories that contained physical impossibilities. You had witnesses that would do anything it takes to take a cop down with them. You had witnesses that had been paid off by Al Sharpton or given back door deals on pending cases by the DA's office to "cooperate" and testify. You also had witnesses on the stand that got testy and showed their propensity for violent outbursts, even in protected environment such as a Court Room. No, the Judge did not have a hard time reflecting on this case and coming down with a verdict. That's because there was no case.

So if I can build a time machine and tell my brothers what will happen if they decide to take focus of their case and try to save a possible homicide from happening in front of their eyes, what would the headlines say the next day? I'll tell you:

"Past criminal kills family of 4 in drunken accident after Cops ignore man going to his car in a drunken stuper, focusing on sting operation instead"

or

"Cops sitting inside club, doing sting operation, ignore talk of gunplay as violence erupts outside , 3 dead, 1 wounded....Where were the Police?"

Either way in the eyes of the media, we cannot win. Maybe you should look in the mirror and you will see part of the recruitment and retention problem the NYPD has. Next time you are the victim of a crime, why don't you call Guzman or Benefield for help because according to you, they are the Heros and we are the Villains.

If there happens to be violence, besides the ones perpetrating the violence, I will personally hold each and every one of you "reporters" civilly liable if anything happens to me or my relatives for fanning the flames of racial tension by failing to report the truth.

On a further note I'd like to personally tell Gabe Pressman to go fvck himself. Go fvck yourself Gabe.

SGB

Excellent post, many great points!

I Do have a quick question though. If someone threaten to "shut down a city," By violence or other means, doesn't that technically fit the dictionary definition of terrorism?

"ter·ror·ism (těr'ə-rĭz'əm)

n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Is that grounds to charge good old AL with a terror-related crime?

[SageVigiles 1,194]

If New York burns, Al Sharpton had damned well better be charged with inciting a riot. I find it funny how the people outside the courtroom were praying to Jesus for justice and peace, but after the verdict came out they fought with police officers. There's a lesson to be learned here, don't mess with the police, and you won't get preforated.

[nycemt728 49]

There's a lesson to be learned here, don't mess with the police, and you won't get preforated.

And that is exactly why we have the violence we do....this is not a police state or communist regime, its a demoocracy. Cops DO NOT have an all access pass to whatever they want, who decides what is messing and whats not??? Guess what, we wouln't need the CCRB, or have names like Livoti or Volpe haunting the past if that sort of attitude worked!!!

[SageVigiles 1,194]

You know what I meant by "messing." Attempting to seriously injure or kill another is grounds for the use of deadly force. Assaulting an officer or civilian is grounds for use of physical force. Do things get out of hand sometimes? Yes, but such is life. If a few scumbags have to go to the hospital/morgue to make society safer, I have no problem with that.

These officers acted in self-defense, and theres nothing anyone can say to make me believe otherwise.

[JohnnyOV 2]

Devil's advocate: if someone was pointing a gun at me and I didn't know they were police officers, I'd run them down with my vehicle too. That's self-defense.

Although I absolutely do not believe that is what occurred in this situation.

I have been in that situation, and it wasnt a cop, and the driver did attempt to run him over, but missed since he ducked behind the wheel.

I am all for the verdict of the police getting off, but I just want to let it known that when somone is shooting at you point blank (the guy who was shooting at us was obviously not a cop) your instincts are to run, flee and attempt to take out the source of violence against you.

[Goose 188]

I have been in that situation, and it wasnt a cop, and the driver did attempt to run him over, but missed since he ducked behind the wheel.

I am all for the verdict of the police getting off, but I just want to let it known that when somone is shooting at you point blank (the guy who was shooting at us was obviously not a cop) your instincts are to run, flee and attempt to take out the source of violence against you.

And i want to let it be known that your not even considering the fact that these guys were loaded up with liquor and already made references to possessing and or utilizing a firearm. Couple that with their failure to comply with the detective's orders and your asking to get shot.

This wasn't some skell it was the god damn Police, fight or flight is a non issue. They should have stopped.

[Guest feraldan]

Goose, I don't think he was disagreeing, he was just telling his experience with it.