Does Anybody Get Annoyed Listenting To 46.26?

[Medic137 6]

Putnam County is on the right track with their single dispatch center, rational unit numbering system, and separate dispatch and response channels. What they need to do is invest in a radio system that can be heard across the county. In the meantime it would really help if the dispatchers would (consistantly) echo the messages from units in the field.

[EJS1810 7]

We have to teach them to crawl before we can teach them to walk

[dc2t 80]

I may be wrong but Westchester County was one of the first to plan for emergencies. The Westchester Fire Chiefs Emergency Plan. The grandfather of 60 control. Some older members can bear me out right or wrong. This was originally housed in White Plains Hqs. All the hype and opinions about how we should change to be like other counties

may not work. look at the alarm load for Westchester. Fire control is

a great resource for the smaller depts who were dispatched on a catch

as you can system. (answering service, phones in homes, police depts.) to name a few. From a first hand knowledge the more people involved in dispatch the longer response time. For a career dept a direct dispatch can save 3 to 5 minutes in response time. Do we really need Eng 21-2-1-???. No! What we need is the county to seperate depts on dispatch and operating freq. The current proposed radio system is for mutual aid only ( so I have been told ). My last check is each dept is FCC licensed to operate on a given Freq. We are still waiting for the rip and run system from 1994. Many depts are getting Freq. and installing there own repeater systems. the grass seems always greener over the septic tank. :-k

[x635 4,066]

I disagree.

Centralized dispatch saves time, especially when a department has dual response plans in place for several types of incidents. Also, in some departments, it frees up manpower to respond. It saves the department money, time and hassle in having to maintain communications equipment. Money that could be better invested in other ventures, such as suppresion, rescue, and staffing. It keeps the air more open and organized for other departments trying to operate. As far as the numbering system, we should have station based numbering, like most of the country. It makes no sense the numbering system now.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

3 to 5 mins saved? Where and why do you think that there is a 3-5 min delay in dispatch from a centralized telecommunications center vs. direct dispatch? I'm not ball busting here either, just very interested in the response. The most delay we get in our dispatch is due to having PD as the PSAP. If anyone can find me hard facts that direct dispatch is quicker then using a 911 center the proper way, I'd appreciate it.

I agree the call volume for Westchester is high, but Dutchess is just as equal or higher and their system works just fine. Why? Call takers, and radio personnel, a comprehensive understanding of the system by those who use it, and training to achieve the understanding and good radio communication techniques. They are proactive, constantly evaluate the system to make change for the better, like the current system which went to a dispatch only channel, one channel for response, onscene, size ups and firegrounds. Instead of the current state where there are complaints, bellyaching with no real input to make it better or desire to change based on "the way things have always been." "We've had our radios for years." "You can't tell us what to do." But lets b**** about it.

[x635 4,066]

One sad note, nothing has been done to prove our County is capable of handling a centralized system or that they even want centralized dispatch. At least not yet. The other part of the problem, when everybody thinks there way of doing things is the best, and nobody is willling to work together or compromise/standardize, then we are going to go nowhere. The only way something is going to get done ever in this county is going to be legislation., and that probaly wont ever happen either :-(

For this county to let whats going on on 46.26 go on as long as they have, is gross negligence IMO. They should have had a UHF system years ago, or at least set a standard forcompatibility for all departments making invesments currently in "their own" system. I hope, god forbid, if something happens, WC is sued and that person OWNS the WC goverment. The county needs to move off 46.26 ASAP, (forget about this new radio system thats not going to apply to day to day operations), and leave all the departments that want to play by themselves, by there own rules, and those departments that want to dispatch themselves only part time (the house dumpers) on 46.26. LEAVE THEM ON 26 TO ROT!! Leave them there to step all over each other, make their ridiculous announcments, and hog the air like its their exclusive frequency. Let's move on to something better,safer, and more efficient! If they want to join us, they can!!! If not, their loss! We'll only talk to them if they want mutual aid! And while were at it, cut them off from all county services, including training! LOL!

PROGRESSIVE DEPARTMENTS FOR A CENTRALIZED DISPATCH WITH A FUNCTIONAL RADIO SYSTEM!!!! We need some sort of lobbying group,lol!!

[Stench60 29]

X635,

I had to reply to this one, "...nobody is willing to work together or compromise/standardize, then we are going to go nowhere.”

You astonish me by then attacking the departments that wish to remain on low-band and stating “... cut them off from all county services, including training!" How do you expect people to work with you and effect some form of compromise if that is going to be the prevailing attitude. Now, I will grant that what you wrote may have been in a sarcastic tone, but there are groups and individuals that feel this way and statements like these can only encourage the knuckleheads of the world.

The fact is the system was never set up to be a centralized dispatch center; it just slowly grew into one. It's been a compromise from its' inception.

Do you ever stop to think that departments may have their own valid reasons for maintaining their activities on 46.26 etc.? And when the county does attempt to remedy the situation you demean it by stating that “this new radio system thats not going to apply to day to day operations", Why won't it apply to day to day operations. I would like an explanation for this statement.

With the logic and “solutions" you lay out it's no wonder that the powers that be look askance at any type of change. As for lobbying groups there are plenty, it's easy to spout anonymously/ semi-anonymously on a message board. Go to a County Chiefs meeting if your a chief officer, a County volunteer meeting if your just a member or your local or district meeting if your career to voice your opinion. Let someone publicly hear you instead of a few people on the web-site.

[x635 4,066]

The comment about cutting them off from training was just sarcasm/joke. That would compromise FF safety if they were going to do that. Leaving them on 46.26 to play by themselves, that I meant. I'll finsih up this comment later on in this rant.

No, the systems never been set up to be a centralized dispatch system. In fact, the systems primarily set up to be a mutual aid coordination point, and not much more. But the system should change to fit the need.

There is no valid reason nowadays to make non-emergency announcments, including drill and paradfe notifications, etc on a Fire/EMS public safety frequency thats congested enough as it is. Especially when said departments transmit such while other nearby agencies are responding to emergency calls. PERIOD. There are a thousand alternative methods nowadays. There is absolutely no justification for daily tests,announcments, parade logistics, etc and you are probaly not going to convince me that there is .

As for the new radio system, based on what I've read and heard so far, its not going to replace dispatch or operational freqeuncies, just supplement whats already out there. I've explained in other threads why I don't think this radio system will work, so I dont feel like typing it again here. I'm not demeaning the system, just merly saying THAT I beleive it's not going to solve our current problems without a solid dispatch agency with appropriate staffing,operations, and protocols to back the system. Also, can they explain to me why no one who uses the system, like the dispatchers, cheifs, etc had any inisght into the new system and its equipment? How come the IT dept, which has never been inside a burning building or had a patient crashing in the back of their bus, had the last word on everything and the "we know whats best for you" attitude. How come we, the users of the system, had no say in its design or selection of equipment? How come their were no field trials? And the system is still in limbo, they still have not found frequencies.

As far as going to meetings, I really should devote more energy to lobbying myself or forming a group soleyl for this purpose, but due to all the mishmosh in this county its extremly fruterating. I dont have the time or patience to deal with it anymore. This problem has been going on for several years now, the county is well aware of it....part of the problem is that there are several groups, yes, but none of these groups are unified in presenting to this county what they want. There are several different groups,that IMO, have several different agendas. The issue has been discussed over and over again with myself and several other people and the higher ups at FC/DES over the past several years. They know about the problem, theyve known about the issue for several years, several solutions have been presented, none have been taken into serious consideration. Lack of staffing, funding whatever I dont know. It's like going around in circles. Many answer the new radio system will solve the 46.26 problem, but without solid and unified communications systems and protocols, I am highly skeptical.

One main solution, we need to hire a full time communications admin staff, instead of just heaping all the reponsibilty on the already overworked Chief Volk and Capt. Novo. Theres tons and tons of work to be done, but they both have other responsibilties. ANother IMO is that the county should increase the adminsitrative staffing for the communications division, to develop and implement protocols, operations, etc.

I'm just venting here, I'm absolutely sick of listening to the unorganized unprofessional mess that 46.26 is. I'm tired of trying to get an emergency message transmitted to dispatch and being stepped on by a department whos chiefs still feel it is neccasary for non emergency messages to be transmitted. This is WC, we should be way, way better than that.

Please note that the above is IN MY OPINION ONLY! I have every right to share my views and opionons on this board, and you have every right to rebut my statements without being told that it does no good. It does for me, and thats good enough for me. Plenty of people have heard me in person, and I say the same things that I say here.

*Edit for addition: I've worked and work in several systems with different communications systems both in and outside of Westchester. This has given me insight into how other agencies work. All I'm asking for is to be able to get my message across the air, and vice versa.

I stand by my original statements made in the previous threads, except of course for the one sarcastic remark about cutting off training.

If people are going to say "well we are licensed on 46.26 too and we are not going anywhere", than the other agencies should just say fine and leave them on 46.26. Leave them there, prove we can build a better system, and maybe one day they will see the light. Its my opinion that something aggressive and drastic needs to be done to start things changing. Theres way too many "My way or no way" attittudes and RIDICUOLOUS ideas that selects comm/chiefs come up with in this county to just dilly dally and hope. It's going to be 2005 soon! And where have we gone in the past 5 years communications wise? AGAIN THE PREECEEDING IS ONLY MY OPINION!

Stench, you've given me an idea. Maybe I'll write a letter containing my ideas to the DES and the various organazations. They'll prbaly have a good laugh before it goes to the shredder, lol.

Ahhhh, I feel better now! Now to go listen to some Disturbed, lol!

P.S Sorry for the typos, way too lazy to fix........

[Remember585 815]

One of the reasons for radio identifiers that Putnam and Dutchess is to eliminate confusion.  Dutchess used to use (Department Name) Engine 1, Engine 2, Truck 1, etc.  The problem lies with mutual aid calls when you might have 4 Engine 1's on the scene.  that tends to get confusing on the radio.

Honestly, the Westchester way of numbering makes more sense.

Is 3392 and engine? I don't know, but I sure as hell know that Engine 104 is!!!!

[Guest WCDES636]

YES!!! I get annoyed listening to 46.26. I have to do it 36 hours + a week. Nobody understands the problems and annoyances on the frequency more than someone who has to utilize it all the time.

1.) Yes, as Seth said, nothing but emergency traffic should be on the frequency. No tests, announcements, and especially PARADE CHATTER.

2.) Why is there a Ladder 1 and a Tower Ladder 1 and they are both Tower Ladders. Easy answer Fairview wants to have the Number 1 designation. Plain and simple " Screw the County plan, We'll do what we want.

We even have a department that wants to call thier ladder by Manufacturer. Ladder Tower 8. They insist on using that over the air. But when they have shirts printed up to celebrate the new Truck, even they call it Tower Ladder 8. Go figure.

3.) Why is it when a Chief or Officer call all units back in service(10-8) That every unit has to call in srvice individually.

On the same note why call 10-40 ( Back in Quarters )

Well, I have vented enough for now.

VERY GOOD!

[Pudge3311 5]

Go back to the big picture. Simply start with Engine 1. Engine 1 happens to be in Pelham Manor. Their ladder, which happens to be a Tower Ladder, is #3. It should be #1, and it should just be Ladder 1. Pelham has Engine 4. Pelham has a straight stick, but it is numbered correctly, Ladder #2. Instead of totally screwing everyone, simply renumber the ladders.

Maybe if we can start with something simple, like that, everyone might see that going to a central dispatch is the best thing to do, but you have to start someplace, and a simply renumbering would be the easiest to do, all it means is a little bit of paint.

[emt301 4]

Just as the county should step in and TELL the departments in this county what they HAVE TO DO in terms of radio frequencies and usage, the county should step in and TELL THEM what their rig numbers will be....whether the departments like it or not.

It's a shame, but if certain departments are going to act like children and not play nice in the sand box, then the county needs to step in and give some "guidance" to these immature and unprofessional departments, just as a parent would "guide" children.

[firemn23 8]

I thought the renumbering is supposed to happen. Ardsley and Elmsford renumbered therir ladders from quints. Ardsley used to be Quint 1 and is now ladder 50. I have the problem with thornwood? and fairview both are tower ladders and one is is Tower ladder 1 and the other is ladder 1. Theres is a good possiblity they could be operating at the same scene (Elmsford) and cause a great amount of confusion.

We also just made it more dificult when we added the squads that according to Westchester county standards aren't squads.

[mfc2257 464]

Renumbering only occured to streamline the types of apparatus listed with the county... We now only have Engines, Ladders (kinda), Ambulances, Rescues, Mini-Attacks, Tankers, Utilities, and Squads for the most part.... Telesquirts, Quints, Quads, QA's, etc have been eliminated.

We don't need a renumbering just to renumber... We need a complete merge of company, apparatus and box numbers so that the first number of EVERYTHING corresponds with the given department.

[WAS967 97]

Just as the county should step in and TELL the departments in this county what they HAVE TO DO in terms of radio frequencies and usage, the county should step in and TELL THEM what their rig numbers will be....whether the departments like it or not.

Do they really have the power to do that?

[DOC22 1]

Just as the county should step in and TELL the departments in this county what they HAVE TO DO in terms of radio frequencies and usage, the county should step in and TELL THEM what their rig numbers will be....whether the departments like it or not.

Do they really have the power to do that?

Well, if they don't then maybe they should!!!!!!

[Pudge3311 5]

mfc2257,

No, we dont need to renumber just to renumber. The ladders are the only thing IMO that need to be renumbered, to eliminate the duplication. This is the simplest way to start pulling everyone together and play nice. It also costs the least amount of money. Instead of having to renumber all your apparatus, the department would only have to renumber one or two.

Was967,

Even if they dont have the power, then 60 control could just not acknowledge them. Yes, that opens up a whole new can of worms, but it could be a start. Let them call a few times on activated alarms and receive no response. Then they might get the picture. Now if they have something that sounds like a job, answer them, but when answering them, call them by their county designation, so that they start to see that 60 control is recognizing their correct designation, and not who they want to be.

In this day and age, everyone cant be who they want to be. Everyone must start to conform, otherwise we should all just dispatch ourselves and everyone can be Engine 1, Engine 2, and Ladder 1.

[mfc2257 464]

Just renumbering ladders is a good start and would have worked years ago... But like everything else that's ever been done in the county it's just a patch it's not a solution. Fact of the matter is that we are way behind the times. From an county-wide organizational standpoint we are not up to par with other major metropolitan counties that have paid, combination and volunteer departments. I'm not just talking about apparatus numbers here either.... I'm talking about "total emergency services management"

I don't quite know how to open the can of worms that we all know needs to be served up... But back to my original point that someone needs to be EMPOWERED to take control of the county. It needs to be a successful DES from a major metropolitan area who already knows how to begin solving our problems because they already did it at their previous post. AND here is a novel idea... Lets use our tax dollars to compensate this individual and their staff what they deserve. Make it financially worth their while to open that can of worms and take the several years worth of heat that some of the old ego's and scardy-kats in the county are going to throw at him/her when they start forcing change. This person will also should be held directly responsible for success or failiure of change in the WC fire service.

You mention money, and as a resident of Chappaqua (obvioussly the Millwood Fire District portion of town) I know all too well about tax burdons... BUT at the end of the day waiting to effect change will only cost more in the long run.

[JBE 328]

I've listened to Westchester for a number of years. Unfortunately the scanner doesn't reach anymore. Putnam was easy to understand when listening(especially being a former member of Lake Carmel) Dutchess went to the new numbering system in the late 80's early 90's. I think it would be pretty easy for 60 Control to come out and say to the Departments, "This is the deal, we will tell you how each unit is going to be designated." If you want to do a radio check, fine. Call and ask for permission to do it. If a department wants to self dispatch, fine. After that 60 control should reserve the right to do a re-dispatch, like 40 Control does, or did, for Mahopac and the Falls. It's the job of the dispatcher to keep the air clear.

When I was in Lake Carmel, we used to call 40 Control either by phone, or over the air for permission to do the radio check/announcements. Where's the problem in doing that?? Not to slam anybody at 60 Control, but maybe it would be a good idea to send out memos to ALL departments in the county to remind them of proper Radio procedures. As for this pi$$ing contest about who has Ladder 1 or TL-1 or Engine 18, Etc. Just take a tip from Putnam and Dutchess or even Rockland, with their numbering system. I think that may lessen the confusion. And who ever said it was hard to listen to Putnam because of the range and stuff, I agree. I was up there recently and couldn't hear a thing on the portable.

[x635 4,066]

I don't like the Putnam,Dutchess and Rockland numbering.

I'm a fan of the Maryland and California style Station based numbering.

For example:

Station 33

Engine 33, Engine 331, Engine 332

Truck 33

Rescue 33

Mini-Attack 33

Ambulance 33

etc, etc.

Couldn't get any simpler then that, and the only real thing to remember is what number is each station.

[E64PCFD2044 1]

635 -

that might get a little confusing too IMO. Someone might get on the air and say: "33's responding" and the dispatcher will have to come back with: "Last unit, your identifier?" or something like that. I hear alot of "16's in service"...is it Engine 16...Ladder 16...Rescue 16...ect. If we went with that type of renumbering now without having every department switching to 60-Control it might get a little confusing...just my opinion again.

(16 is just a number I made up...not bashing anyone who's unit # is 16)

[mfc2257 464]

X635 is right... If someone just says 33's responding... They aren't doing the correct job on the radio....

It has been a long proven standard in the busiest and hariest counties in America to have a streamlined numbering system.... the company number is always the primary ID for the unit... It's preceeded by the type of apparatus... It doesn't get any clearer than "Engine Thirty three one is responding", "Chief 33 is responding" "Engine thirty three two is responding", "Truck 33 is responding".... ETC... If everyone is really comfortable you can stop saying "Engine Thirty Three one" and eventually say Engine Three Thirty One....

There is nothing more confusing than listening to a major job in Westchester and hearing R-14 and TL-14 on the air at the same time and have one be from Mt. Kisco and one from Ossining... Tanker 16 From Somers and Rescue 16 from Yorktown... Ladder 18 from Somers and Rescue 18 From Croton... Tanker 10 from Croton and Rescue 10 from Bedford Hills... It's just plain backwards.

[Guest DG795]

IMO, the system that 635 described is the simplest to use in a multi-department area such as Westchester county. It is important to remember that in this system to say "Engine 281" not just "28" (As should be done now).

Without getting to complicated:

1. Each station is assigned a number, I will use station "28"

2. All apparatus # out of that station begin with 28

3. Duplicate Apparatus(such as 2-3 engines out of the same house) is followed by another number (Engine 281, Engine 282, etc)

4. Ladders or Rescues are just "Truck 28" or "Rescue 28"

5. Any other piece a department may have just follows the same system (Utility 28, Mini-Attack 28, etc)

The system is simple and it works. If given the opportunity, listen to an area that uses it for a few minutes. I am sure most people will find it to be very defined and understandable.

The 4 digit ID counties (Putnam, Dutchess, Rockland") basically just take this system to another level. Instead of "Engine 281" it is 2821- Replacing the word engine with a numeric code system. However I feel simpler is, in almost all situations, always better.

[Guest skibum]

My understanding of the new radio system is that dispatch will still be done over 46.26 and when the units call in service, enroute, 10-17, whatever terminology you like to use, they will do so on the new frequency and then all tranmissions going forward are on the new frequency. Departments will be assigned to the new frequencies similar to the way we are on current fireground frequencies. I believe this will eliminate much (of course not all) of the BS mentioned in previous posts. This will be a significant impovement over the current system.

As for all the non essential radio traffice on 46.26: I agree that parade messages, daily tests and the like should stop. Yes, I know our PD does a daily test for us (when they remember) and I plan to have it stopped in the very near future. The only way it is going to stop is if the county puts its foot down and dictates that it must stop. I have no idea how they can enforce it or what "penalties" can be doled out for violators but something needs to be done. Further, each and every department needs to take a close look at their radio practices and find ways to reduce their radio traffic. Before you start bashing me and saying those in glass houses should not throw stones, keep reading.

Every piece of apparatus saying 10-8, 10-2 and then 10-40 is also ridiculous and should stop. Some of you may have noticed that I have put an end to that at my department. The ranking chief or officer makes the 10-8 call for everyone on the assignment and we eliminated the 10-40 altogether. I have no idea why we did that in the first place. It's damn obvious to me when you see the big red thing with flashing lights backing into the bay that the appartus has found its way back to quarters. So, I am trying to do my part to make things a bit better.

Many departments have their own private radio frequencies, why don't they use them? There are a handfull of deparments in the county that seem to be on the radio all day, unless they have to communicate with 60 control or units from other departments, let them use another frequency or their private frequency.

As for duplication: This is a communications thread so I won't go into it here, but would love to spout off about that in the appropriate venue.

[pjm1733 22]

46.26 for Fire radio dispatch only. No EMS on channel 46.26 (shocker) unless fire engines being dispatched to medical assist.Face it ems is a horse of another color. The dispatch channel is only for Fire dispatch. No other transmission allowed. No announcements allowed. Weekly test of base units ok at pre- arranged time.

Every battalion gets its own frequecy on repeater with a side channel off repeater. (16-channels plus a couple for ems and mis) Every battalion can communicate with each other by simply going to that battalion's channel.

Buzz word inter-operability.

Every engine, ladder, squad in the county dispatched over 46.26 gets a digital radio with push buttons that records times to the second dispatched,enroute,onscene,in service, in quaters, out of service,simple. Each department has access to thier own information. Each department gets a base station. Each department gets 10 portables.Each department will buy all additional portable radios and must maintain a radio repair contract.

Heres how it works Battalion-14 Department-201 gets an mva w/injuries at 505 Ashford av. Two vehicles need extrication The dispatch enters the call MVAI, validates the address and computer reccomends E-165 normally that's enough.Due to the nature of call. MVAI two vehicles need extrication.The computer has an automatic upgrade feature recommending L-50 and U-24 , E-47 m/a The next nearest units with the tools to the scene. (EMS works alot the same way computer reccomends original agency then upgrades additional (in service) nearest to the scene)

The dispatch would dispatch E-165 L-50 U-24 E-47 announcing the departments names, nature of call, units, cross streets ,this would create an incident and place dispatched units on the call. (this would simultaneously dispatch the ems units and police agency) car 2011 would push enroute on his digital system and give a light verbal 2011 responding on Battalion's-14's frequncey. Each member of dispatched department would receive verbal dispatch over pager, text message over cell phone. Each department getting a rip and run (tecno name for a fax). If a dispatched unit does not hit enroute in a reasonable amount of a time a re- transmission of the alarm would take place. Now all fire ground transmission would go through either the IC or your departments base station. Talk all you want. leave the dispatch alone.

For the average Fire Fighter on back an engine you go to your battalion channel off repeater and are in contact with everybody you need .

For a mutual aid fast team from another battalion easy your battalion channel off repeater with one member monitoring working fire battalion channel.

for a mutual aide request battalion-14 department- 201 check on a report of an orange glow at battalion-17 department-255 well lets say good luck to you

well who pays for your pipe dream

george signs the check

hillary and chuck asks for it

[Stench60 29]

A few more points on this subject.

Apparatus needs to inform dispatch that they are back in quarters and off the air ( 10-40) especially in departments with more than one house or departments that use a remote dispatch ( county control). If the dispatcher can't physically see the rig bag in quarters how is he supposed to know that the rig is back in quarters safely or is still on the air?

Each piece of equipment should call back in service from an incident separately. Just because an "IC" declares that all units are up doesn't make it so. With a message such as this a unit could then be dispatched to another incident when they are picking up half their hose bed (and before anyone comments, yes I've seen it happen) or with no available air-packs for interior firefighting or no tank water.

I've said it before and I'll say it again renumbering with all these new designators is asinine. Should the mess with the ladders and rescues be straightened out? YES! But as for the rest, KISS, keep it simple stupid! The less a driver or officer has to remember and say the better. People have problems now can you imagine if they have to remember and say 22-25-32-1? Can the county change the numbers? Sure they can, they tell you flat out these are only radio identifiers and don't use them as anything else because they can be changed.

I firmly believe the new trunked radio system with it’s' talk groups will solve 95% of the problems we are discussing.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

If an IC marks his/her units back in service when they are not, that is a command problem and he/she doesn't know how to operate under the IMS system as well as the person whom is in charge of that apparatus. County Control in my opinion and from what I take from discussions with them, do not want every apparatus calling them when they are back in, they have enough to do keeping track of incidents. This isn't rocket science and the scenario mentioned only should come into play for departments that have unit specific dispatching. Not departments that get dispatched as a department instead of by unit #'s.

Stench, you say the less a driver/officer has to say the better, but calling 10-40 is another transmission to fill the defunct radio system. The time to say any unit number is about the same regardless of what system you use. "engine xyz" "15-2-2."

The trunked radio system remains to be seen. Again I have to say that a system like Dutchess's would have solved 100% of them, as long as departments knock off the BS and use the system as its designed to be used. The digital system with the push buttons have merit, but I would still say get it on UHF, get off low band, its less reliable and less easier to repair. Plus it works great until the wrong button is pushed and you have to go back into the system to change what has been recorded. Or when the system goes down and you have to reboot the system etc.

[mfc2257 464]

I've participated or been a member in/with departments in 3 states and 6 counties. We are one of the very few that are doing it backwards.

Every unit saying that they are 10-40 is useless... A dispatcher doesn't need to know that a unit is safely back in quarters... All he/she needs to know is whether or not that unit is available to respond or if they have to call the next due unit.... Therefor when an officer says All XYZ units can go 10-8 then they are all available for the next call.... If they aren't he should say so... "All units are 10-8 except Engine XYZ which is out of service until further notice"

Renumbering the county would be KISS... What is assinine is to sit back and continue to work on the confusing system that we are using now... Like I've said before... Just in central Westchester you can have Rescue 18 and Ladder 18 at the same call but they are from different departments (Croton & Somers)... Rescue 10 and Tanker 10 (Croton & BHFD)... Different departments, Rescue 14 and TL 14...(Ossining & Mt. Kisco) Different departments... Then you've got Places like Thornwood who have engine numbers all over the place... In the 80's and in the 290's... What could be more confusing than that... Mamaroneck town has E-36, E37 and E-51? The examples go on and on.... BUT what would be most simple and would help with CAD and making streamlined BOX assignments (another rant I won't get into here) it would be much easier if everything for one department including stations, apparatus, box area etc used 1 common number.... Everywhere else has made it work this way... Why are we holding out...

The county won't hire someone capable of running the fire service in Westchester County, the old ego's and panty-waist's in the county don't want to leave their comfort zone and move to a new system that might require a few old timers to come up to speed on the new apparatus designations and people are afraid of losing controll over their little slice of Westchester....

The cries for change are a lot louder than the ones that want to "just do it the way we've always done it."

[pjm1733 22]

To many people talking at once. No reason to call back in service, no reason to call enroute. If departments had digitals they would record exact times and free up alot of air time. Only talk if you have something to say. I listen to dispatch. It seems to me that often engines are calling enroute sirens blaring like dispatch mite actually care your going for a ride. Engine bla bla on scene 2 car mva 2 people hurt .Why tell dispatch. They know that already thats why you where dispatched there. Tell the people on scene or still enroute on your own frequency. Take care of the problem and go back into service. I am watching cartoons. Only call me if you need more dispatched. Example request for Con Ed car into pole.Pole number 42. Valid reason to contact dispatch. Dispatch attaches request on call record. Request NY Tow heavy recker to scene attach tow request to call record. All so simple and in practice at a department near you. If the digitals where in service the engine company would push in service. The computer would recognize it and reccomend that unit for dispatch.The dispatcher does not need to know anything. The cad system would make all reccomendations. If X department was out on a structure fire and another alarm comes in. The cad would reccommend Y the next nearest available company. Working with incident types would send the right unit. example if X was on a structure fire and a co alarm came in to them . The cad would reccommend the unit from Y with the gas meter to cover the call. Its simple i know it works. We all know this is just a discussion nothing will come of this. A new cad system that knows X department only has 2 engines in service (their ladder pushed out of service on digital) a reported stucture fire come in. The cad automatically because of the incident type "fire" reccomends those 2 engines, plus 1 engine m/a, plus 1 ladder m/a, and a rescue m/a automatically. 0r what ever the agreed upon response is from that battalion.

I just wanted to ask a small question what is the difference between

13:01

13:05

ans 4 minutes

next question

13:01:58

13:05:01

ans 3 minutes 3 seconds.

Point being dispatch confirms your responding and checks you and says 10-4 E-bla bla responding at 13:01 op 42

is it really 13:01 and due minutes really count.

a read out on the call record using digitals would be like this

dispatched 13:01;31

enroute 13:02:42

onscene 13:03:19

in service 13:30:58

in qtrs 13:31:40

not 1 word spoken over radio

I am curious what a call record looks like using the current system.

digital recording of times would be much more accurate, free up air time,a cad system that does more then just dispatch a "department" to a call also would improve service.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Actually its not that different if your department has been trained and set up the system county has in place to access the CAD via computer. It even allows you to get into the call history to look at the notes that the dispatcher entered during the call. You can even place units in or out of service through this system and know whom is on duty at county.

PJM, are you familiar with county control's CAD? A lot of what your saying, they have the capability of doing. The only difference is the times are dependant on them physically marking the unit for the appropriate response code. Also the system you talk about for dispatching units, is also in place. If you have dedicated units in service, by call type by what the department wants by its response policy. Its entered into the CAD and the CAD recommends the right unit. But again, if your an all volunteer department, they dispatch that department, and the department members know what needs to go. If its a CO call, you will here: Control to "department" respond for a reported fire at such and such, cross st. such and such, any additional info if warranted and the time. That department knows what units they need. Not dispatching specific unmanned units. That makes no sense. Now, dutchess, once the initial dispatch goes out, when retoning, then announces whatever additional apparatus are programmed in the CAD for that specific call. So you get an MVA, and you get the engine out, they will notice that and 2 mins. later, announce that the rescue XX-61, and any other units on the CAD set up by that department still needs to get out. My department I work for in Westchester has dedicated units, we get dispatched by closes proximity 1st, 2nd, 3rd due and a ladder. But if they weren't manned, why call them out, unless you have mulitple stations, and then it would work to call out "in station 2's area. Again KISS.