Firefighter uniforms

[ny10570 745]

http://firefighterclosecalls.com/fullstory.php?13845

Above is a link to a story about a firefighter who set his pants on fire while training with a k-12 without bunker gear. Why the hell are they wearing a polyester blend uniform? Guys in construction do just fine cutting metal without bunker pants and don't end up in the burn unit because they wear heavy duty cotton pants. Here is an industry where we are going to intentionally expose ourselves to heat and flame and guys are wearing polyester uniforms. Thats insane. If something goes wrong and you get burned or a hot enough ember or spark gets down your collar our up your pants you not only get burned but you get shrink wrapped. Are there any depts around here that have placed appearances at such a higher value than safety?

[SageVigiles 1,194]

"For how you train, so shall you fight."

-Tacticus

Guy should have been wearing full PPE, training or no.

[ny10570 745]

"For how you train, so shall you fight."

-Tacticus

Guy should have been wearing full PPE, training or no.

I completely disagree here. Go to any concrete heavy construction site and you can see plenty of instances where guys are using the k-12 and other similar saws with metal cut blades cutting metal wearing nothing more than jeans, boots, gloves and eye protection (if they're even wearing that much). I personally have spent dozens of hours cutting rebar and steel studs with similar saws and never once suffered an injury. The big difference between me and that firefighter was I wouldn't have been let anywhere near the construction site wearing polyester blend pants because they are dangerous and have no place in that type of environment. These guys are fighting fires wearing clothes made out of material that a cook in a restaurant wouldn't wear.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Tim/sbvfd,

In the picture you posted of me, I was outside the collapse zone (1.5x the height of the structure) and was therefore not in a hot zone, nor trained to a level in which I should be without proper supervision, as I was a junior firefighter at the time. Therefore I was not in danger and did not really require full PPE to be safe. Also, don't post pictures you didn't take yourself, it violates the forum's policy on photos. For the record, there are a few pictures of you out there with inappropriate PPE as well. The point was that he SHOULD have been wearing proper PPE, as you and I should have too.

I completely disagree here. Go to any concrete heavy construction site and you can see plenty of instances where guys are using the k-12 and other similar saws with metal cut blades cutting metal wearing nothing more than jeans, boots, gloves and eye protection (if they're even wearing that much). I personally have spent dozens of hours cutting rebar and steel studs with similar saws and never once suffered an injury. The big difference between me and that firefighter was I wouldn't have been let anywhere near the construction site wearing polyester blend pants because they are dangerous and have no place in that type of environment. These guys are fighting fires wearing clothes made out of material that a cook in a restaurant wouldn't wear.

The point I'm making ny10570, is that if the member was wearing his PPE over the uniform shirt, the problem would have been nullified, correct? If I'm wrong, let me know please. I'm not trying to be a smartass, just raising a possible point.

[jack10562 414]

I don't know about the fire service, but my ConEd guys who will be in a Hot-Zone involving potential for exposure to flame from natural gas MUST wear fire-retardant (nomex) coveralls, including PBI hoods, over fire-resistant (100% cotton) clothing.

And depending on the individual scene circumstances, an Air-Line Respirator or SCBA might also be a requirement.

Polyester or similar textiles is NOT an acceptable work clothing option where exposure to heat or flame is expected.

Say this three times fast:

Putting PPE over a non-acceptable article of clothing does not make the unacceptable article acceptable.

[DaRock98 76]

I agree PPE probably should have been on here in this situation but I also agree with ny10570 in saying that something could always go wrong even wearing full PPE. I'm not saying to go out training without the proper PPE on but just don't let it make you feel like your are invisible and just because you have it on you won't get hurt. I think departments need to stop thinking about appearance first and start thinking about the safety of the men that wear these uniforms as well. Ny10570 brings up some VERY valid points regarding this issue and I have to say I agree with a lot of them.

[sbvfd596 2]

jack-

you make a very good point

Putting PPE over a non-acceptable article of clothing does not make the unacceptable article acceptable

This can be easier said than done for career depts, what about volunteers in the summer who roll out of bed at 4am and wear gym shorts under their bunkers and arrive at the automatic alarm that turns out to be a working fire? Wondering if people (myself included ) should plan ahead of time, or do we need better PPE and SOPS regarding proper clothing?

[x635 4,066]

I completly agree with ny10570.

The department I used to work for issues polyester "Dickies" pants and polyester uniform shirts.

I never really knew there was an alternative, until I noticed while riding along in LA City and County that they had uniforms SPECIFICALLY made for firefighters with a nomex blend. I believe California's State-OSHA actually requires it*.

There have been instances where firefighters have been burned or exposed to high-heat scenarios where the polyester-blend uniform has actually melted and adhered to the firefighters skin.

It's my personal belief that all station uniforms should be purchased from a source that makes uniforms specifically for station and everyday firefighter use, that ENHANCES the PPE.

There's a pretty good article on this at the following link:

http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/C...-/46$56188

Charleston,SC Uniform Under Scrutiny

Posted: 08-29-2007

Updated: 09-04-2007 04:24:10 PM

RON MENCHACA and GLENN SMITH

The Post and Courier (Charleston, SC)

Charleston firefighters pride themselves on being among the best-dressed in the country, their vivid blue uniforms wrinkle-free and creased to precision.

But these same uniforms, made of 100 percent polyester, offer inadequate protection to firefighters and fail to meet national safety standards, a leading protective clothing expert said.

"They can liquefy and melt into the skin," said Jeffrey Stull, president of International Personnel Protection in Austin, Texas, which advises the National Fire Protection Association on standards for protective equipment.

FULL STORY:

http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/C...-/46$56188