Hybrid Chief's Cars

[mfc442 3]

With the rising gas prices I was wondering if any departments are using or looking into hybrid vehicles for their chief's cars or utilities. With the new hybrids being in both sedan and SUV models, I would think that there is a big cost savings to a department. In general just better for the environment. Heck, it couldn't hurt on your public image either. What would anyone see as a down side to using one? Anyones thoughts on the matter???

[ryefd192 2]

Rye FD just got a hybrid Ford Escape as the new fire inspector's vehicle

[sbvfd596 2]

on a side note, I believe some of the agencies in the Town of Greenwich have begun experimenting with hybrid vehicles.

[pv102 0]

There are three downsides as I can see them.

1) Cost, hybrid suv's aren't exactly cheap. But the flip side to that is the bottom of the line hybrid is still pretty close in price to the top of the line trucks that some of these departments are buying. Although if they were to go a toyota prius the price on those isn't too bad.

2) Untested technology, some departments have a replacement cycle for their vehicle that takes the vehicle into a length of service thats untested. Also the type of driving is rough with long periods of idling with high draws on the electrical system from all the equipment and lights running. I'm not sure but I believe that you cannot add an alternator to a hybrid the way you could put one on a normal ICE.

3) Warranty, these vehicles tend to have very strict warranties which you do not want to void because I know of several mechanics that refuse to work on these vehicles for lack of knowledge. Which means the dealer is just about the only place to get these vehicles fixed, it also however is the best place to get them fixed because they have been trained by and can call on the designers of the vehicle to fix any problems that might arise.

on another note I'd like to say that I'm not against hybrid vehicles in emergency services, I'm actually one hundred percent for it but I just don't think the current hybrids will fit the bill. As of right now the way I see it is that in order to use these vehicle with all the equipment that we need and want in them everything would need to be done in the factory. All the electrical components (i.e. radios, lights, chargers, laptops, ect.) would need voltage and amperage converters, which the factory would need to install. The last thing would be how would the complex electrical system function with all this additional draw of power, would it cause the ICE to run all the time and if thats the case then you have just spent alot of money for nothing.

Again folks just my 2 cents but thanks for your time anyway. This is something to look for in the future, I'm interested to see how this could pan out

Thanks alot,

Pete

Edited April 15, 2008 by pv102

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I was in Specialty Warning a few months back and saw a Tahoe with GM's Flexfuel system that allows for more ethanol in the gas system. Good idea, but if you use a municipal fuel pump, the ethanol isn't going to be there, so you've basically squandered money. I know Chevy just came out with Hybrid Tahoes/Suburbans, but I'd have to agree with PV102, the lifespan hasn't been tested yet. But will a hybrid afford you the same power/torque that a regular engine will? I don't know, I'm just asking.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I was in Specialty Warning a few months back and saw a Tahoe with GM's Flexfuel system that allows for more ethanol in the gas system. Good idea, but if you use a municipal fuel pump, the ethanol isn't going to be there, so you've basically squandered money. I know Chevy just came out with Hybrid Tahoes/Suburbans, but I'd have to agree with PV102, the lifespan hasn't been tested yet. But will a hybrid afford you the same power/torque that a regular engine will? I don't know, I'm just asking.

I have a hybrid SUV, while not a Ford/Chevy/GMC it is a Toyota Highlander. It is one of the best cars my family has ever owned, while the gas milage still leaves alot of room for improvement (only 22 MPG city) it has more than enough power. My hybrid has 200 Kilowatts of power, thats more than enough. In terms of all of the bells and wistles that staff cars have, I believe that a hybrid could have and use them for extended periods of time due to the amount of electricity in the car. Remember all of those battery blocks that we are afriad of in hybrids, well they provide more than enough power to the car. Most people who drive my car or cars like it say it has too much power. On the other end, the Prius has too little power.

[Scottyk107 9]

I was in Specialty Warning a few months back and saw a Tahoe with GM's Flexfuel system that allows for more ethanol in the gas system. Good idea, but if you use a municipal fuel pump, the ethanol isn't going to be there, so you've basically squandered money.

The E85 flex fuel thing is all about emissions I believe. You actually get less fuel mileage from the ethanol(e85) vs regular fuel and if im not mistaken it costs about the same price. The vehicles with this feature are the same priced either way. I believe just about all the tahoes and suburbans after 06' have it. I agree with the statement about the electrical load on the hybrid vehicle that a emergency vehicle would have. It may not be financially viable if you shorten the life of the batteries and have to change them prematurely. I can see if it was a take home chief or inspector's vehicle that would not see the everyday abuse a front line vehicle would.

[Guest]

Ethanol is a less efficient fuel, and is made from sugar cane, corn, etc. It is better explained here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel the short of it is that ethyl alcohol is a less efficient fuel than that of gasoline, and diesel.

[NYRangers30 1]

E85 isw becoming very common in vehicles produced by General Motors, Especially in the Tahoes, and Suburbans. The problem with it in this area is that there are very few stations that carry E85. But i know that in my town the village board has been complaining about how much fuel the chief's cars are getting. It ends up being about 10 mpg

[GoDucks23 6]

Just one thing. Check the price tag on one of the batteries when they go in a Hybrid. Cost will offset all money you save in fuel.

[x635 4,066]

Although it's not a high-tech energy conservation SUV, the Chief Chief Of White Plains FD uses a low key Ford Escape, which is much more fuel efficient then some Suburban's, Crown Vic's, and Tahoes other jurisdictions use for someone at the same level.

We have a responsiblity to the taxpayers to keep costs down. If we're going to give people take home cars, INCLUDING volunteer Chiefs, with fuel prices the way they are, then we need to re-evaluate the whole situation. Restrictions on use, more efficent vehicles, proper dispatching and routing, and proper routine maintainence are some of the ways to save on fuel costs.

[sbvfd596 2]

I'm sure many of you have heard about the issues with the take home cars w/ Bridgeport fire inspectors. I'm assuming that the GPS' installed in the cars were to cut down on mis-usage of vehicles. The vans seem a little more accommodating than SUV'S. According to the Greenwich Time, the town of Greenwich has put town seal's on all town owned vehicles to make them easier to spot for residents. Not sure if both of these are directly related to the rising fuel prices. The city of Stamford has a few sedans (dodge stratus') for take home vehicles.

Personally, I don't see the benefits of the hybrid cars b/c of the maintenance required with the batteries a few years down the road. However I did get rid of my v8 GMC and got a v6 Toyota to deal with gas prices.

[Guest]

Although not chiefs cars, Stratford EMS just purchased two new hybrid Ford Escapes. The city was told that these hybrid vehicles should not be used for emergency vehicles due to electrical load when vehicle is parked and the motor shuts down, but they purchased them anyway.

[mfc442 3]

A few people on here have said that by running the lights and other equipment, it will shorten the life of the batteries. Does anyone know this for a fact, or is it speculation? Also, with LED lights pulling low drain on the system (not sure about radios and other) I would think the batterys should be able to handle it for a fair amount of time, and once they do start to loose there charge, wouldn't the Gas engine turn on to supplement if needed? With some departments the chiefs cars get more miles put on them as "daily Drivers" then emergency vehicles, or that is what I see. For those depts, I would expect it to be a big cost savings. The ford escape for example is only 6k more RETAIL than the gas only version. You would pay that off in the first year or 2 of the vehicles life in gas savings I would think.

For the agencies that have gone with some hybrids, Did the agency or town using them promote them to the taxpayers in any way, and if so, what was the reaction?

Edited April 16, 2008 by mfc442

[jcoppola 52]

When the current mayor of Norwalk, Richard Moccia, took office, he selected a Ford Escape Hybrid for his official car. He took some abuse at first, for the initial cost, but now I bet all the naysayers are keeping quiet, with fuel expected to hit $4 per gallon by summertime.

[TL2L31 8]

Just one thing. Check the price tag on one of the batteries when they go in a Hybrid. Cost will offset all money you save in fuel.

From an experience at work, a Honda Accord Hybrid replacement battery pack price is around $5000.

[Guest MVFD334]

The hybrid technology is still to new and has much upgrading to do. These newer cars have became nothing but a nightmare to work on from a mobile electrics point of view.. A car that used to take an hour or so to wire is now a 5hr job on the most basic of jobs.. With everything now being low voltage, resistance data wiring, one probelm results in multiple component shutdows. With that being said the new led units draw little power which means no need to upgrade an alterantor or battery. If your placing any type of load on a battery that isnt being charged its goin to ruin the life of it. A quik overview on the hybrid - The hybrid batteries are a sealed type which are constantly being monitored by the computer modules. They need to be kept at a certain volatge to maintane a long battery life. So if your parking the car, it automatically shuts down the extra drain of the leds, etc are gonna strain the batterys life. Now the car is driven again and gas engine has to operate longer to recharge these batteries , end result more air pollution which defeats the technology. There are converters and modules and better quailty batteries that can better this problem but it is big money. If you really wanna help the enviroment and make use of better technology, the chiefs trucks should run biodiesel.. It cheap, available and you dont have to sacrifice the big suvs.