Response Times

[ny10570 745]

ckroll, as usual, excellent points, but we face the problem that I was getting at when I started this thread. No one is tracking their own performance. Apparently the prevailing attitude is "we got a bus on the road, so what". Three days after starting this only Moose, and mvfd 1813 have stepped up with numbers. Are these the only agencies that keep track or the the only ones who are not afraid of their numbers.

[ckroll 101]

ckroll, as usual, excellent points, but we face the problem that I was getting at when I started this thread. No one is tracking their own performance. Apparently the prevailing attitude is "we got a bus on the road, so what". Three days after starting this only Moose, and mvfd 1813 have stepped up with numbers. Are these the only agencies that keep track or the the only ones who are not afraid of their numbers.

Putnam Valley does not track the numbers. It's not required by DOH and with keeping rigs maintained, the station clean and the motherload of required paperwork flowing to Albany, tracking response times is icing our cake doesn't have. If we did, what would we do with the information? Useless numbers give useless data, and 2 calls a day will not pay for paid crew. If county gets ahold of EMS, we will get shorted on BLS just like we get shorted on ALS now. Units would go to higher traffic areas.

One still has to decide what to track. We can take 15 minutes to assemble a crew and another 15 to get them there. Until the subcellular transporter is up and running that's what happens in a town that's 46 square miles. How many people have been killed or maimed by waiting I do not know, but it is a small fraction.

If there were a county wide effort to have agencies track time to contact and time to intervention, we might identify ways to reduce contact time (keep a medic in town and send medics to all calls.) or time to intervention ( more BLS gear in private vehicles, more training for PCSO) that might improve outcomes.

In times of financial crisis, every improvement comes at a cost and any cost may be too high if not justified. We need to know if what we have is a problem before we ask towns and counties and taxpayers to ante up for more. I'll talk to our number cruncher when he comes back to see if I can get numbers for you, but it will take a while. I can tell you right now that if we track something meaningful that one of the largest districts in the state will have scary looking numbers.

[Guest Mfd]

This bill listed below was PM'd to me from another member of this site. I do agree our employers and jobs come first and we have an obligation to work with/ for them, not just dropping everything and running out the door every time the tones go off. The person in question responded to two serious jobs that coincedently happened relatively close together, during the same week, I am hoping they can work something out that is mutually beneficial to both sides.

Thank's for the help.

Friday, March 28, 2008

Bill Text - S03591

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S T A T E O F N E W Y O R K

________________________________________________________________________

3591

2007-2008 Regular Sessions

I N S E N A T E

March 12, 2007

___________

Introduced by Sens. WRIGHT, ALESI, FUSCHILLO, GRIFFO, LARKIN, LEIBELL,

LIBOUS, MALTESE, MORAHAN, ROBACH, SEWARD, TRUNZO, VOLKER -- read twice

and ordered printed, and when printed to be committed to the Committee

on Local Government

AN ACT to amend the volunteer firefighters` benefit law and the volun-

teer ambulance workers` benefit law, in relation to leave from work

for municipal employees responding to fire and ambulance calls

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, REPRESENTED IN SENATE AND ASSEM-

BLY, DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

1 Section 1. The volunteer firefighters` benefit law is amended by

2 adding a new section 4-a to read as follows:

3 S 4-A. LEAVE FROM WORK FOR RESPONDING TO CALLS. 1. ANY PUBLIC EMPLOYEE

4 WHO IS AN ACTIVE VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER:

5 A. MAY BE PERMITTED TO LEAVE WORK IN ORDER TO RESPOND TO FIRE CALLS OR

6 AMBULANCE CALLS DURING SUCH EMPLOYEE`S REGULAR HOURS OF EMPLOYMENT WITH-

7 OUT PREJUDICE TO OPPORTUNITY FOR PROMOTION OR CONTINUED EMPLOYMENT, AND

8 WITHOUT BEING CHARGED HOURS AGAINST SICK TIME, PERSONAL TIME, VACATION

9 TIME OR COMPENSATORY TIME OR ANY OTHER ACCRUED TIME; AND

10 B. SHALL BE PERMITTED TO RESPOND TO SUCH CALLS PRIOR TO REPORTING FOR

11 WORK WITHOUT PREJUDICE TO OPPORTUNITY FOR PROMOTION OR CONTINUED EMPLOY-

12 MENT, AND WITHOUT BEING CHARGED HOURS AGAINST SICK TIME, PERSONAL TIME,

13 VACATION TIME OR COMPENSATORY TIME OR ANY OTHER ACCRUED TIME.

14 2. THE BENEFITS SET FORTH IN SUBDIVISION ONE OF THIS SECTION SHALL

15 ONLY BE AFFORDED TO A PUBLIC EMPLOYEE WHEN:

16 A. IF REQUESTED BY THE PUBLIC EMPLOYER, SUCH EMPLOYEE SUBMITS A WRIT-

17 TEN STATEMENT FROM THE CHIEF OF THE FIRE COMPANY OR THE CHIEF OFFICER OF

18 THE AMBULANCE COMPANY VERIFYING THAT SUCH EMPLOYEE RESPONDED TO A FIRE

19 OR AMBULANCE CALL AND SPECIFYING THE DATE, TIME AND DURATION OF SUCH

20 RESPONSE; AND

21 B. SUCH EMPLOYEE`S LEAVE FROM WORK DOES NOT RESULT IN SUCH PUBLIC

22 EMPLOYER`S FAILURE TO MEET MINIMUM REQUIRED STAFFING LEVELS.

EXPLANATION--Matter in ITALICS (underscored) is new; matter in brackets

{ } is old law to be omitted.

LBD10142-02-7

S. 3591 2

1 3. FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, THE FOLLOWING TERMS SHALL HAVE THE

2 FOLLOWING MEANINGS:

3 A. "AMBULANCE COMPANY" SHALL HAVE THE MEANING SET FORTH IN SUBDIVISION

4 TWO OF SECTION THREE OF THE VOLUNTEER AMBULANCE WORKERS` BENEFIT LAW;

5 B. "PUBLIC EMPLOYEE" SHALL MEAN A PERSON WHO IS EMPLOYED BY A PUBLIC

6 EMPLOYER; AND

7 C. "PUBLIC EMPLOYER" SHALL MEAN:

8 I. THE STATE OF NEW YORK;

9 II. A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN, VILLAGE OR ANY OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION

10 OR CIVIL DIVISION OF THE STATE;

11 III. A SCHOOL DISTRICT OR ANY GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY OPERATING A PUBLIC

12 SCHOOL, COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY;

13 IV. A PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT OR SPECIAL DISTRICT;

14 V. A PUBLIC AUTHORITY, COMMISSION OR PUBLIC BENEFIT CORPORATION; OR

15 VI. ANY OTHER PUBLIC CORPORATION, AGENCY, INSTRUMENTALITY OR UNIT OF

16 GOVERNMENT WHICH EXERCISES GOVERNMENTAL POWER UNDER THE LAWS OF THE

17 STATE.

18 S 2. The article heading of article 1 of the volunteer ambulance work-

19 ers` benefit law is amended to read as follows:

20 SHORT TITLE; PURPOSE; DEFINITIONS; MISCELLANEOUS

21 S 3. The volunteer ambulance workers` benefit law is amended by adding

22 a new section 4 to read as follows:

23 S 4. LEAVE FROM WORK FOR RESPONDING TO CALLS. 1. ANY PUBLIC EMPLOYEE

24 WHO IS AN ACTIVE VOLUNTEER AMBULANCE WORKER:

25 A. MAY BE PERMITTED TO LEAVE WORK IN ORDER TO RESPOND TO FIRE CALLS OR

26 AMBULANCE CALLS DURING SUCH EMPLOYEE`S REGULAR HOURS OF EMPLOYMENT WITH-

27 OUT PREJUDICE TO OPPORTUNITY FOR PROMOTION OR CONTINUED EMPLOYMENT, AND

28 WITHOUT BEING CHARGED HOURS AGAINST SICK TIME, PERSONAL TIME, VACATION

29 TIME OR COMPENSATORY TIME OR ANY OTHER ACCRUED TIME; AND

30 B. SHALL BE PERMITTED TO RESPOND TO SUCH CALLS PRIOR TO REPORTING FOR

31 WORK WITHOUT PREJUDICE TO OPPORTUNITY FOR PROMOTION OR CONTINUED EMPLOY-

32 MENT, AND WITHOUT BEING CHARGED HOURS AGAINST SICK TIME, PERSONAL TIME;

33 VACATION TIME OR COMPENSATORY TIME OR ANY OTHER ACCRUED TIME.

34 2. THE BENEFITS SET FORTH IN SUBDIVISION ONE OF THIS SECTION SHALL

35 ONLY BE AFFORDED TO A PUBLIC EMPLOYEE WHEN:

36 A. IF REQUESTED BY THE PUBLIC EMPLOYER, SUCH EMPLOYEE SUBMITS A WRIT-

37 TEN STATEMENT FROM THE CHIEF OF THE FIRE COMPANY OR THE CHIEF OFFICER OF

38 THE AMBULANCE COMPANY VERIFYING THAT SUCH EMPLOYEE RESPONDED TO A FIRE

39 OR AMBULANCE CALL AND SPECIFYING THE DATE, TIME AND DURATION OF SUCH

40 RESPONSE; AND

41 B. SUCH EMPLOYEE`S LEAVE FROM WORK DOES NOT RESULT IN SUCH PUBLIC

42 EMPLOYER`S FAILURE TO MEET MINIMUM REQUIRED STAFFING LEVELS.

43 3. FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, THE FOLLOWING TERMS SHALL HAVE THE

44 FOLLOWING MEANINGS:

45 A. "FIRE COMPANY" SHALL HAVE THE MEANING SET FORTH IN SUBDIVISION TWO

46 OF SECTION THREE OF THE VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS` BENEFIT LAW;

47 B. "PUBLIC EMPLOYEE" SHALL MEAN A PERSON WHO IS EMPLOYED BY A PUBLIC

48 EMPLOYER; AND

49 C. "PUBLIC EMPLOYER" SHALL MEAN:

50 I. THE STATE OF NEW YORK;

51 II. A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN, VILLAGE OR ANY OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION

52 OR CIVIL DIVISION OF THE STATE;

53 III. A SCHOOL DISTRICT OR ANY GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY OPERATING A PUBLIC

54 SCHOOL, COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY;

55 IV. A PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT OR SPECIAL DISTRICT;

S. 3591 3

1 V. A PUBLIC AUTHORITY, COMMISSION OR PUBLIC BENEFIT CORPORATION; OR

2 VI. ANY OTHER PUBLIC CORPORATION, AGENCY, INSTRUMENTALITY OR UNIT OF

3 GOVERNMENT WHICH EXERCISES GOVERNMENTAL POWER UNDER THE LAWS OF THE

4 STATE.

5 S 4. This act shall take effect immediately.

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[GAW6 66]

Thanks for the info Mfd. Very interesting reading. Although I am not a public employee, my husband is. I know that there had been something written on the books previously about the retirement program. If you were in a State retirement system you were not allowed to get LOSAP points for responding to an alarm during your normal workday hours. Wonder if this still holds?

[Guest]

Sad to say but what is going to happen when there is a medical emergency right outside our door and our amb. can't get out the door!?!?!

sadly that did happen twice last year. one cardiac arrest down home street (i could see the firehouse from the guys yard). M1 and M2 were tied up, OVAC was called. it was a load and go, we intercepted OVAC medic ifo the fd.

the other time was on the top of commerce (a few hundred yards from the firehouse).

...very agravating calls.

[Guest]

With out a doubt that will raise our response times and that is also the point I am trying to make! Our vollies just don't want to do the job anymore and thats a HUGE problem. I think the WHOLE ambulance crew should be a paid crew 24/7 365 but it's close to impossible to see that happening anytime soon. I just wish that the decision makers saw it the same way I did instead of running the way we do. Sorry for the rant but I will try to bring this back to the topic at hand. Does any other vollie vacs or depts have any solid numbers on response times? I'm talking from the time the job comes in to the time they call responding?

hey, i counted the MA we did from April 1st 2007-today (fiscal year end march 31) and the amount of mutual aid we did for your dept is literally 1/5 of what it was last year. i do not give kudos to your entire department, only to a select few like yourself, along with a hand full of others, including your brother who did a lot of calls at one point. i give kudos to the people who gave their ALL to get those ambulances out the door!

this (fiscal) year we respectably used each other, unlike last year where my vac was abused by your agency. keep up the good work.

[Guest]

With out a doubt that will raise our response times and that is also the point I am trying to make! Our vollies just don't want to do the job anymore and thats a HUGE problem. I think the WHOLE ambulance crew should be a paid crew 24/7 365 but it's close to impossible to see that happening anytime soon. I just wish that the decision makers saw it the same way I did instead of running the way we do. Sorry for the rant but I will try to bring this back to the topic at hand. Does any other vollie vacs or depts have any solid numbers on response times? I'm talking from the time the job comes in to the time they call responding?

i tried for more recent figures, but the most recent official figures i found were for october 2007. in that time period 42 of 48 calls we were responding from 1 sec - 5 min after dispatch, 5 calls between 6-7 mins and 1 call at 8 mins.

although we had fewer calls in november and december 2007 (at a quick glance) the %'s seem to be the same. our QA committee are working on these figures for our 07-08 fiscal year.

we really, really try to have members in quarters or already assembled in the ambulance doing whatever it is they feel like doing (meal, coffee, socializing, etc..).

as mentioned, most of the time we are an abused taxi, but the times that are serious, we pride ourselves on our response times.

Edited March 29, 2008 by vacguy