Two Man Law Enforcement Patrols

[x635 4,066]

I've always wanted to broach this subject, but I always figured I'd get the answer "because the more cars on the road the better, and backup will be there within seconds anyways".

Why don't PBA's mandate in their contracts, two-man patrol cars, especially at night in high-crime areas? Granted, it may not prevent violent actions toward LEO's, but it may give them a better chance, plus apprehending the suspect might be a lot easier.

I'm not an LEO, but am curious about how LEO's feel about this?

[INIT915 1,119]

NYSP does require this. The night tour runs 7pm-7am. Troopers double up in one car at 11PM for the remainder of the night. (The contract requires only 12mid-5am, but guys generally do 11p-7a).

[Guest]

I've always wanted to broach this subject, but I always figured I'd get the answer "because the more cars on the road the better, and backup will be there within seconds anyways".

Why don't PBA's mandate in their contracts, two-man patrol cars, especially at night in high-crime areas? Granted, it may not prevent violent actions toward LEO's, but it may give them a better chance, plus apprehending the suspect might be a lot easier.

I'm not an LEO, but am curious about how LEO's feel about this?

Seth,

I know this isn't exactly the same thing as Law Enforcement, but, along the same lines, I work for AT&T, and we have lists of "two-man" areas, where we will not send a technician alone. These lists were developed with LE assistance, and we get updates from the various LEA's through our internal "security" people. So, based on that, P.D.'s clearly know these areas. I think we all know the bottom line, which is tax dollars. While not being an LEO, I feel certain most of them would want, and probably have asked for, what you suggest. It's all about the money..............

[JJB531 652]

NYSP does require this. The night tour runs 7pm-7am. Troopers double up in one car at 11PM for the remainder of the night. (The contract requires only 12mid-5am, but guys generally do 11p-7a).

Same with NYPD Highway Patrol... midnights are 2 man cars... in precincts though, a lot of the radar cars are riding solo on all tours.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I wouldn't want a partner after being alone for so long. Well maybe on a midnight, but not during the day or 4-12. I like being independent.

[Guest paramedico987]

I think it really depends on the territory in question... In rural, middle of nowhere, areas one man might be better so that resources can more easily be spread out. But when it comes to urban and suburban areas I'd definately want it to be 2 man.

All day long I listen to LEA "XYZ" dispatch 2 units to the same job, usually a routine dispute or whatever, so that there'll be 2 PO's on the scene. I get the more cars on the road idea, but it doesn't work if twice as many of them are pulled off the road for each job. Not to mention, for that explanation to be plausible, there need to be twice as many road units in the first place. Anybody seen the gas prices lately, not to mention the vehicle maintainance.

2 man's the way to go, even for a supervisory unit... you just never know when you're going to roll up on something. Just because you've got collar brass doesn't mean some skeez-bag won't shoot at you too.

I don't even like working flycar solo!

Just my oppinion.

[20y2 43]

I think it really depends on the territory in question... In rural, middle of nowhere, areas one man might be better so that resources can more easily be spread out. But when it comes to urban and suburban areas I'd definately want it to be 2 man.

All day long I listen to LEA "XYZ" dispatch 2 units to the same job, usually a routine dispute or whatever, so that there'll be 2 PO's on the scene. I get the more cars on the road idea, but it doesn't work if twice as many of them are pulled off the road for each job. Not to mention, for that explanation to be plausible, there need to be twice as many road units in the first place. Anybody seen the gas prices lately, not to mention the vehicle maintainance.

2 man's the way to go, even for a supervisory unit... you just never know when you're going to roll up on something. Just because you've got collar brass doesn't mean some skeez-bag won't shoot at you too.

I don't even like working flycar solo!

Just my oppinion.

In some jurisdictions a dispute will still get 2 2 man cars, meaning 4 people showing up for something that doesn't need 4 people. For a call of a robbery, for example you still need to send 2 cars no matter what because one is doing the canvass for the suspect meaning that 4 people are going on that call instead of 2-3. Most calls don't even need the second person as most calls are simple 'report only' calls, such as any past burg, past criminal mischief, MVA or past larceny.

Don't get me wrong, if a department can spare enough people to do all 2 man cars then go for it. However a one man car means more visible police presence and a smaller distance to respond. Don't forget that the marked/uniformed patrol units are usually not the only units on the road, you have all the K9, ESU, traffic, bicycle, street crime, detective/narcotics and walking posts out there too that are out and available to respond, but not responsible to answer the radio.

[Guest pentax02839]

well I think two person patrols is good idea.there are lot of open state highways were it makes sense putting two state troopers together.

[JJB531 652]

In rural, middle of nowhere, areas one man might be better so that resources can more easily be spread out.

Remember though, in a rural middle of nowhere area where your resources are spread out, your backup is not necessarily right around the corner. Meaning if you get into trouble, your nearest backup may be 5, even 10 minutes away. With most urban departments, when you call for help on that radio, multiple units will be on scene within a minute. Working in an urban environment... when you call for help, you know the cavalry is coming.

[mikelouf2 0]

I think it would be good to have two guys in one car all the time you never know what will happen out

there also I think all cops should have there vest on it may help save there lives

[INIT915 1,119]

Remember though, in a rural middle of nowhere area where your resources are spread out, your backup is not necessarily right around the corner. Meaning if you get into trouble, your nearest backup may be 5, even 10 minutes away. With most urban departments, when you call for help on that radio, multiple units will be on scene within a minute. Working in an urban environment... when you call for help, you know the cavalry is coming.

Many upstate rural counties, there is one Trooper PER COUNTY. Back up can be 20-45 minutes away. That's a fact.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Only 2 cops or troopers on duty in New Fairfield, and they can be QUITE a ways away if you need backup sometimes, as we learned responding to a walk-in stabbing at the firehouse one time. Fortunately we have Putnam County and Danbury bordering if the feces hits the fan.

[kevinrichardeaton 11]

most cars in the Met are crewed 2 up, armed response are all 3 up and then you have the vans which can be anything from single crewed for prisoner transport right up to a TSG with 8(I think) of the biggest uglyest scarists riot control experts on board

[MTACOP 0]

Our contract specifies 2 officers in all boroughs of NYC between 20:00 and 08:00. Everywhere else is solo patrol.

Personally I like to be solo, that way I do what I do without a nagging partner. It's like in Mother Juggs and Speed...

[helicopper 1,050]

Like so many other issues, there are two sides to this argument.

Administrators and anti-social types (like ONEEYE - just kidding of course ) prefer one officer units because they are on the surface more cost effective. You don't take two officers out of service to write a simple report, more tickets can conceivably be written by two officers in separate cars (and at separate locations), deployment can cover a larger geographical area, etc.

Conversely, the argument can be made that two officers will be more efficient and complete assignments more quickly together rather than alone.

From a safety perspective, there can be no question that two officer units are safer than single officer patrols. Your back-up is already there and you can develop sound tactics for contact and cover working with a regular partner. I disagree with the assertion that in rural/suburban areas you don't "need" to double up or the argument that in urban areas your back-up is "always around the corner". That's a whole lot of garbage. Cops can (and unfortunately DO) get killed anywhere!

As for dispatch protocols, dispatching two cars (regardless of how many officers are in each) is for safety. The second car can be cancelled once the officers on scene determine that it's not needed. If they are needed, it is always better to have them there or on the way.

Before I give my preference, do I get to pick my partner???

[Billy 68]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think the State PD out of Cortlandt patrol with two in the car during the overnite shifts. I don't know how many cars they patrol with though. Does the County PD patrol 24/7 in Cortlandt area?

[INIT915 1,119]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think the State PD out of Cortlandt patrol with two in the car during the overnite shifts. I don't know how many cars they patrol with though. Does the County PD patrol 24/7 in Cortlandt area?

NYSP (Statewide, not just Cortlandt) ride 2 to a car from 11p-7a. WCPD provides one patrol (single man) 8a-4p and 4p-12mid.

[CTFF 65]

I just finished reading a book titled Blink by Malcolm Gladwell and he addressed this issue in his book (this book is a great read for anyone emergency services).

In one chapter of the book a statement in the book says that Police officers will always want two man patrols yet they are not safer for the officers or the public. It is stated that when two officers have an encounter with a citizen the citizen is more likely to be arrested or charged with assaulting a police officer ( as opposed to one officer encounters). While he does not have any foot notes he credits two studies in his notes section. I was wondering if any of the LEO's have read any studies on the issue of one vs. two person patrols? Or if this issue is discussed in your initial training or with in your own dept?

[grumpyff 1,159]

I just finished reading a book titled Blink by Malcolm Gladwell and he addressed this issue in his book (this book is a great read for anyone emergency services).

In one chapter of the book a statement in the book says that Police officers will always want two man patrols yet they are not safer for the officers or the public. It is stated that when two officers have an encounter with a citizen the citizen is more likely to be arrested or charged with assaulting a police officer ( as opposed to one officer encounters). While he does not have any foot notes he credits two studies in his notes section. I was wondering if any of the LEO's have read any studies on the issue of one vs. two person patrols? Or if this issue is discussed in your initial training or with in your own dept?

When I first graduated the police academy in 1999, NYPD Transit was still deploying solo train patrols from 1930 to 0405 hours. Only train runs above 96th street were dual patrol. When it was only one officer, it was up to you if you wanted to make an arrest, if the guy looked too big, or willing to fight, most officers would back off. Not all. Fights were not all that common, but when they did occur, everyone showed up, and the perp usually went to the hospital. The feeling amongst some of the bosses, was "This is how it was done in my day" or "there are other posts in the major stations". I used to hate riding the 'D' train across the bridge (Grand St to Dekalb Ave)into Brooklyn...four minutes where you were truly on your on, until the next stop was reached, and you were locked in the car if something did happen. A few years ago, I got into a fight/wrestling match with a perp in the Times Square station on the #1 train. I called for assisstance (10-85). It just happened to be during the change of tour so I was on my own. It took what felt like ten minutes until two officers assigned to the Times Square Detail topside received the call over the Precinct radios (diiferent frequency) and came downstairs.. I was out for almost 6 weeks with a broken hand. Our radios then and now are total garbage, multiple dead spots, and conditions change with the weather.. when it rains there is lots of static, or no signal at all. Sometimes you can hear Central, but not the cop on the other end of the station. I'll take dual patrol any day.

Edited March 31, 2008 by grumpyff