A Citizen's Objection To An LODD Firefighter's Funeral Procession

[x635 4,066]

Found this on another forum....absolutely disgusting. It's a letter to the editor.

Official arrogance

Article Launched: 03/12/2008 10:38:46 PM PDT

Once again, government employees have arrogantly abused the people.

March 5, around 12:15 p.m., the California Highway Patrol stopped all eastbound traffic near Alabama Street in Redlands to make way for a funeral procession. Said procession consisted of dozens of firetrucks from dozens of agencies and departments.

Thousands of truckers, mommies, business people, and the elderly were trapped on the interstate.

For what was this grand procession? Another firefighter?

PLEASE read the rest of the "Official arrogance" editorial here, I'm sure you'll find it interesting: http://www.sbsun.com/letters/ci_8552779?source=email

[PFD165 1]

Disgusting is far to easy a word for that.

[jack10562 414]

....amazing....

Ken.... you just don't get it, do you...

...time to crawl back under your rock...

[gss131 212]

While I am all for showing respect for the fallen at funerals, it has puzzled me as to why rigs from numerous towns (or counties) are involved. Respect can be shown without taking these rigs from the towns they are supposed to be protecting.

Edited March 25, 2008 by DOC22
Improper spacing and grammer

[20y2 43]

While i am all for showing respect for the fallen at funerals,it has puzzled me as to why rigs from numerous towns (or counties) are involved.Respect can be shown without taking these rigs from the towns they are supposed to be protecting.

Is it out of the realm of possibility to think that the unit at the funeral is a spare or maybe that it is the front line vehicle but the spare is in service in the town?

[ex-commish 490]

....amazing....

Ken.... you just don't get it, do you...

...time to crawl back under your rock...

I suggested that to him when I responded to that newspaper.

[shac 7313 0]

This sounds like a line of duty death. For me it makes me sick to my stomach !!! The engine probably

was a back up engine, and even with that, isn' there a thing called mutal aid ?? That firefighter put

his life on line and answered his final alarm. May he rest in peace.

Edited March 22, 2008 by DOC22

[gss131 212]

I am not referring to this firefighters own district, I am referring to rigs coming from as far as 30 miles away. As I have seen in the past, like I said.

Edited March 22, 2008 by DOC22
Poor spelling and grammr

[Guest stephentyler20]

Thanks, added my 2 cents on his site.

[FirNaTine 370]

While i am all for showing respect for the fallen at funerals,it has puzzled me as to why rigs from numerous towns (or counties) are involved.Respect can be shown without taking these rigs from the towns they are supposed to be protecting.

I agree gss131. Two pieces of apparatus are all that's needed. The Engine Co. for the casket and the members own company. It's a funeral procession, not a parade! Is that true, 30 miles away?

[EE1 0]

This guy is disgusting, plain and simple. And in reference to one of the replies to the article, on the article's websit, which states that the writer of the post hopes that there will be nobody available to respond when he needs it is also a disgusting thing to say. I hope that there are the best EMS/FD/PD who respond so he can see what we do everyday and realize how ignorant he truly is. Everyone, even us, have need EMS/FD/PD in some way and understand its a job that requires courage, competance and the willingness to go far beyond what is required, a job many feel is taken by those who cannot get "real jobs." If you ask me, the BEST jobs are within EMS/FD/PD, would not do anything else in the world.

My two cents.

[Future Fireman 4]

Ok, I got the ticket number for kicking this guy below the belt. My number is 1,996,987. Right now, #500 is going for 5 minutes straight and there was one guy that went on for 2 hours.

Anybody else want a ticket number?

Seriously, he needs to go back and dwell under his rock. :angry: I'm almost ready to cut the line!

Mike

Edited March 21, 2008 by Future Fireman

[tunaFish 0]

This guy is disgusting, plain and simple. And in reference to one of the replies to the article, on the article's websit, which states that the writer of the post hopes that there will be nobody available to respond when he needs it is also a disgusting thing to say. I hope that there are the best EMS/FD/PD who respond so he can see what we do everyday and realize how ignorant he truly is. Everyone, even us, have need EMS/FD/PD in some way and understand its a job that requires courage, competance and the willingness to go far beyond what is required, a job many feel is taken by those who cannot get "real jobs." If you ask me, the BEST jobs are within EMS/FD/PD, would not do anything else in the world.

My two cents.

This is an example of the maximum arrogance practiced regularly today by public service agencies. None of those extremely-expensive trucks and their well-paid passengers were available for any real emergencies in their home departments.

You will note the writer said None of those...He didn't say that he hoped they wouldn't be...

I can understand how everyone is annoyed with this article, but reads it correctly!

[smwells 7]

Not knowing the reason or cause for this firefighters death, I can only think LODD. But eitherway LODD or non duty related, this person deemed the respect from his fellow members and departments. if a dept from 20 miles away felt they needed to be represented, then fine with me. For all I know he was a member of that dept at some point in life, many members on this board have or currently belong to multiple agencies during thier career.

[JohnnyOV 2]

I actually live with a roommate who feels the same way. And I can see his point to a certain extent, but not all the way.

He feels that firefighters and police officers who die in the line of duty were doing their job, and something bad happened. "They are just doing their job; its like a garbage man falling off the back of his truck and diying." He won't call the men of 9-11 heros because again "Their job is to go up an get people out. Would you call a computer wiz who invents the next incredible idea, or someone who has a received the Nobel Peace Prize a hero? No, because again, they are just doing their jobs. A hero is a Joe Blow, who's walking down the street, sees a house fire with people trapped, gets someone to call 911, then runs in himself and pulls out a person."

What we see as idiotic, the public sees the opposite. I wouldn't call what Ken is saying as ignorant or disgusting, just an uninformed opinion. Sure we all get pissed when people blame us for "wrongdoings" and things, but we still go out there and preform the service. Volunteer or Paid, Full time or Part time, its still a job that we do, and we should expect nothing in return for it except our weekly paycheck and personal pride because we know damn sure that for the most part, the public won't be giving any to us.

btw, he and I are great friends, until this topic comes up.

edit: spelling error

[Guest]

This is an example of the maximum arrogance practiced regularly today by public service agencies. None of those extremely-expensive trucks and their well-paid passengers were available for any real emergencies in their home departments.

You will note the writer said None of those...He didn't say that he hoped they wouldn't be...

I can understand how everyone is annoyed with this article, but reads it correctly!

My two, no, five cents:

First - we are entrusted to protect the public at all times. Just because fire apparatus is used in a funeral procession doesn't mean that communities aren't protected. It is our first and foremost responsibility to the public. You send people to a funeral if you can. And, most members attend funerals on their own time, so the cost to the taxpayer is limited to fuel (and only then if the department sends a vehicle).

Second - I do not in any way equate the fact that when someone who who puts his/her life on the line for protecting the public dies executing that mission is a display of arrogance when that person is honored by his/her profession. That defies logic. When people, firemen, police, EMS workers, soldiers, or just plain citizens who do good for others die, their wakes and funerals are crowded. People come out to honor those who give. Think of an ordinary citizen who is known in the community for being a giving person. The public turns out in droves. In the fire service, why can't come out to honor those who selflessly gave their lives. And, I bet that there were a lot of other mourners present who were not members. I guess that they too must be arrogant?

Third - I bet that the person who wrote that letter to the editor would change his tune if he became a firefighter. Once he understands the commitment, the culture, and the ultimate sacrifice, he will change his mind. It is very easy for someone who has absolutely no understanding for what we do to complain. Put him in a fire and he will get religion.

Fourth - I know that if I die a LODD, I would hope that I was respected enough to have a good send off. That is a small request for making the ultimate sacrifice. Think of the spouse who lost the member. Wouldn't a great turnout be somewhat comforting? My department has had several non-LODD deaths this year. The fire service showing up at the wake, funeral, etc made a lasting impact were bright spots on very tragic life changing events for relatives. Members who die in the line of duty deserve the same.

Fifth - It is not unusual for me to be delayed for a few minutes while a long funeral procession of any kind passes. So you get delayed by a few minutes. Will 50 people be shot at dawn because of this? It is a minor inconvenience. This guy should just chill.

[Goose 188]

Its California, did you REALLY expect any different?

[JFLYNN 681]

I agree gss131. Two pieces of apparatus are all that's needed. The Engine Co. for the casket and the members own company. It's a funeral procession, not a parade! Is that true, 30 miles away?

gss131 and FirNaTine...good point about all the rigs...if they are necessary for fire protection somewhere, whether front line, spare, or reserve, why is it appropriate to bring them out of the city, town, village, district, etc., for a funeral or parade? Of course, we don't know the specifics of this particular instance, but I guess you guys, like me, have been frustrated at all the times we have seen certain departments use apparatus at funerals or parades that are far away from the area they are supposed to be protecting...who can blame the public for asking why this is done with THEIR apparatus?

For the record, I don't agree with some of the other things this guy said, but I remembered to "qtip" and it was no big deal for me...

[Guest chrisluvstef2]

I think it's sad that we even need to have discussions like this, People show there respects in many different ways, And one way we as firefighters/EMS police and other such agencies show our respect is to have members and Vehicals from all over show up and take part, For us and for the Family of the fallen. To my knowledge the family is asked if they would have any objections, And most of the time the family welcomes everyone and appreciated the fact that there are so many agencies and equiptment there. I know as a Firefighter if I was ever killed in the LOD I would want as many agencies there as possible, I want bag pipes and the whole 9 yards. The person who actually made the comment in the paper is probably one of those people who dont yield the right of way either and will be one of those who say what took you so long the day that they need help.

[DOC22 1]

I am not referring to this firefighters own district, I am referring to rigs coming from as far as 30 miles away. As I have seen in the past, like I said.

And s was reviously stated they were likely backup apparatus and obviously not front line. ANDeven mre likely is a pre-arranged stand by with a mutual aid Department.

[JFLYNN 681]

And s was reviously stated they were likely backup apparatus and obviously not front line. ANDeven mre likely is a pre-arranged stand by with a mutual aid Department.

Aren't spare or reserve apparatus, or "backup apparatus" as you refer to them, bought and paid for by the taxpayers to be available in that town, village, city, or district, in the event that they are needed for emergency response?

[Guest MVFD334]

I agree with EMSJunkie712. Taking apparatus and manpower out of service for either a funeral or parades is acceptable so long as standby crews are in place at there quarters. When you see these events you are usually seeing 1 peice of equipment from a dept unless the department itself is hosting the event. I believe that what makes funerals a big deal is that they are not an everyday occurance. So when people attend they not only pay there respects to the person, but the trade as well. Watching last fall the funeral for Matt Lamb was an overwhelming experience. But at the same time departments where on standby and automatic mutual aide.

[DOC22 1]

For the most part, yes. But when they are out of service, there is a backup proceedure in place.

[NJMedic 96]

As bad as the idiot from California sounds I'm floored by some of the response on here that basically agree with him.

[RescueKujo 130]

Its California, did you REALLY expect any different?

Medic, Medic....Medic needed for stab wound to back in California Goose, while I agree there are some ultra liberal thinkers in this fine state that hate anything of authority. I believe for the most part you'll find these kind of people in every state in the union. However Goose, I have to disagree with the expectation that everyone in that area (about 100 miles from me) feels this way. This is the same area where the the memorial service for the 5 USFS Firefighters in October 2006 was held. That procession was approximately 2 miles long, with 5,000 people in attendance. And the public came out in force in donations and other signs of grief for them and their families. This guy's attitude for the most part is few and far between, thank God.

[ailc307 1]

My two, no, five cents:

First - we are entrusted to protect the public at all times. Just because fire apparatus is used in a funeral procession doesn't mean that communities aren't protected. It is our first and foremost responsibility to the public. You send people to a funeral if you can. And, most members attend funerals on their own time, so the cost to the taxpayer is limited to fuel (and only then if the department sends a vehicle).

Second - I do not in any way equate the fact that when someone who who puts his/her life on the line for protecting the public dies executing that mission is a display of arrogance when that person is honored by his/her profession. That defies logic. When people, firemen, police, EMS workers, soldiers, or just plain citizens who do good for others die, their wakes and funerals are crowded. People come out to honor those who give. Think of an ordinary citizen who is known in the community for being a giving person. The public turns out in droves. In the fire service, why can't come out to honor those who selflessly gave their lives. And, I bet that there were a lot of other mourners present who were not members. I guess that they too must be arrogant?

Third - I bet that the person who wrote that letter to the editor would change his tune if he became a firefighter. Once he understands the commitment, the culture, and the ultimate sacrifice, he will change his mind. It is very easy for someone who has absolutely no understanding for what we do to complain. Put him in a fire and he will get religion.

Fourth - I know that if I die a LODD, I would hope that I was respected enough to have a good send off. That is a small request for making the ultimate sacrifice. Think of the spouse who lost the member. Wouldn't a great turnout be somewhat comforting? My department has had several non-LODD deaths this year. The fire service showing up at the wake, funeral, etc made a lasting impact were bright spots on very tragic life changing events for relatives. Members who die in the line of duty deserve the same.

Fifth - It is not unusual for me to be delayed for a few minutes while a long funeral procession of any kind passes. So you get delayed by a few minutes. Will 50 people be shot at dawn because of this? It is a minor inconvenience. This guy should just chill.

I agree with you 1000%! You have some very valid points!

Its symbolic, Its just become the norm for our fallen brothers and sisters!

I hope this tradition carries own, not saying that I want any LODD's, just saying that if they happen we should know that we will be there for our fallen brothers & sisters.

[AndyC3J 190]

What would be the difference if the apparatus was left at home, and the manpower was there in their POV's? The truck can't go fight a fire by itself. Can't say as I've ever heard of the LODD funeral that was not attended by members of NUMEROUS other agencies from the surrounding area and beyond, and all of the local ones did have standby and/or automatic response departments covering them during their brief absence from the district.

[JJB531 652]

As bad as the idiot from California sounds I'm floored by some of the response on here that basically agree with him.

I can't believe it myself....

[Remember585 815]

Aren't spare or reserve apparatus, or "backup apparatus" as you refer to them, bought and paid for by the taxpayers to be available in that town, village, city, or district, in the event that they are needed for emergency response?

That's a good point. But...

Are you saying that apparatus should never leave their home towns to train? I doubt that's what you mean but was hoping you could clarify it for me.

As someone who has been to a lot of firefighter funerals - there are three things that always leave a lasting impression on not only me, but others in attendance.

- Bagpipes

- Members in uniform

- Apparatus processions

The general public, and those within our ranks who fail to respect the traditions that have merit to them, are what really makes what we do feel more and more unappreciated, especially those of us that don't get paid to do it. For some of us, we do this because we love it - and we love everything about it. Some call us buffs or whackers or losers but that's OK, because I can still fall asleep at night because I don't take it personally. Joe Public will never walk in my shoes or those before me or even the ones that will come after, and I can't expect them to ever understand how much passion there is for what we do. So anytime I read something where Joe Public questions why this or why that - as long as it isn't jeopardizing their protection and the services they deserve - then I don't feel we should have to answer to them. We are there to help them with anything they call us for at anytime with very little appreciation and many times no appreciation at all, so if one subtle gesture to our own is a nice procession at their funeral while still providing coverage at home - then I honestly don't care what they think.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Guy and Gals, its just plain ignorance and very disgusting.