Briarcliff fire 3/19/08?

[msg88 4]

Initial dispatch for a kitchen fire, PD on scene with smoke/flames showing from rear, re-tone updating call to a structure fire.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Yes. You got it. It is the equivalent of a second alarm being transmitted.

Unless the retone is requesting additional equipment,it is not a second alarm. The retone is to update members and in many cases to get members out of bed, to leave work, etc.

[firemoose827 324]

Unless the retone is requesting additional equipment,it is not a second alarm. The retone is to update members and in many cases to get members out of bed, to leave work, etc.

Look, its very simple sir, as a volunteer I can not leave work unless its a true emergency. Not my rules but I need my job to feed my family so I listen to the rules. Im not about to run out the door everytime the fire alarm goes off at the local high school, or every time someone mistakes steam for smoke...I would loose my job. Evenings and weekends I go out the door everytime the pager goes off, regardless what we are being sent to. A lot of our chiefs know this and therefore help us out with the "second tones" to advise us, or I should say advise our BOSS , that we are needed. My chief will arrive on scene and call in a report immediately over the air so that those of us trapped at work can hear it and leave. But, on the same token our chiefs call in tons of mutual aid immediately also, to cover the manpower issue in case it is a worker. A few of our departments have automatic mutual aid plans for weekdays from 6a-6p with 1-2 other departments. We are all simultaneously dispatched and respond together to get a truck on scene as fast as we can, with a crew.

Our response times are hurting, but we are working as hard as we can to improve them.

[Guest seanc]

can someone link to the full incident alert, i tried searching but found only one

[Remember585 815]

It's actually a practice of ours at 60 Control that whenever a unit declares a working fire (structural, or others of greater significance) we re-tone them - paid or volunteer. In the paid departments it lets other stations know or their "higher ups" will know and respond. In volunteer departments it's to update everyone going of what's going on. We all know some transmissions from the IC or first arriving unit aren't picked up on our pagers.

Every time an incident escalates, in my opinion, it should be toned out with each level of the alarm. I believe Yonkers and FDNY do something similar.

Moose - CALM DOWN! I don't think Captain Nechis was being facetious or malicious in his comment, he was just pointing out the reason for additional tones.

[JFLYNN 681]

Look, its very simple sir, as a volunteer I can not leave work unless its a true emergency. Not my rules but I need my job to feed my family so I listen to the rules. Im not about to run out the door everytime the fire alarm goes off at the local high school, or every time someone mistakes steam for smoke...I would loose my job. Evenings and weekends I go out the door everytime the pager goes off, regardless what we are being sent to. A lot of our chiefs know this and therefore help us out with the "second tones" to advise us, or I should say advise our BOSS , that we are needed. My chief will arrive on scene and call in a report immediately over the air so that those of us trapped at work can hear it and leave. But, on the same token our chiefs call in tons of mutual aid immediately also, to cover the manpower issue in case it is a worker. A few of our departments have automatic mutual aid plans for weekdays from 6a-6p with 1-2 other departments. We are all simultaneously dispatched and respond together to get a truck on scene as fast as we can, with a crew.

Our response times are hurting, but we are working as hard as we can to improve them.

Yikes, Moose, qtip...it is what it is...there are just clear differences between the way career vs. volunteer departments function ( as opposed to the old adage- we do the same job as the career guys, the only difference is we don't get paid) and a lot of people both in the fire service and not in the fire service are not aware of that, so questions are asked and answers are given...

[firemoose827 324]

Yikes, Moose, qtip...it is what it is...there are just clear differences between the way career vs. volunteer departments function ( as opposed to the old adage- we do the same job as the career guys, the only difference is we don't get paid) and a lot of people both in the fire service and not in the fire service are not aware of that, so questions are asked and answers are given...

First off...why is everyone telling me to calm down? I wasnt in any way offended or upset, Im just trying to explain why we as volunteers need to have second tones most of the time. Am I allowed to add to the discussion? Did I have CAPS everywhere and use unfavorable language? I was even respectfull enough to call him Sir, in case some of you missed that, and I called him sir because A- He is a Captain, and B- He has more knowledge and experience than me so therefore I respect his opinions on this site and listen to members like him whenever they post.

Mr JFLYNN...you obviously have an obsession with Q-tips Sir, and as I dont need any maybe you can find someone else that does. I was in no way verbally bashing anyone or loosing my cool, so please stop with the pointless bashes against me. Thanks Chief.

In the future, maybe someone can send a PM to me, BEFORE you all jump to conclusions. (notice the SMILEY...) Everyone breathe with me here...In through the nose....Out through the mouth...Feel better?

Now, can we continue being the happy yet dysfunctional family we have been?

Moose

[Guest]

Ah yes...those questions asked from the beginning...of course they were not intended to be coy (coy: showing reluctance, esp. when insincere or affected, to reveal one's plans or opinions, make a commitment, or take a stand) or condescending (patronizing, disdainful, supercilious). I was born at night....just wasn't last night.

[HCFRFF 0]

please define Qtip. Thanks

[DaRock98 76]

I believe it means "quit taking it personal" correct me if Im wrong chief.

[JFLYNN 681]

please define Qtip. Thanks

as I explained in a previous post, qtip = "quit taking it personal"...I had noticed that many times on this site when a differing opinion on a particular issue is presented, such as that there are clear differences between the selection criteria, background checks, medical and age qualifications, minimum TRAINING levels, promotion process, accountability levels, etc. of career vs. volunteer departments, many people take it very personally and go on and on about their own personal resumes, level of commitment, FEELINGS, etc.,

This is a problem because the problem or issue being discussed is usually much larger and more important than any one individuals particular INDIVIDUAL situation, and getting upset and taking it personal and using your own personal situation as your side of the argument about an ISSUE, rarely adds any intelligent discussion to the issue.

[HCFRFF 0]

Thanks. qtip!

[Oswegowind 17]

YFD 910, we also "re-tone" in Yonkers, companies are originally toned out for the assignment, and on all hands, fire control tones a 10-30 tone and "page all" tone alerting all stations and administrative divisions of the condition. Hence, re-tone. Usually it is at least 3 minutes after the first arriving units get on scene and realize they have a worker and not just another "I burned the chicken". As well, on the 10-30 (confirmed major structure fire) YFD gets additional units, and YPD for traffic, and EMS for medical conditions/aided cases possibly resulting from said incident.

[yfd910 8]

YFD 910, we also "re-tone" in Yonkers, companies are originally toned out for the assignment, and on all hands, fire control tones a 10-30 tone and "page all" tone alerting all stations and administrative divisions of the condition. Hence, re-tone. Usually it is at least 3 minutes after the first arriving units get on scene and realize they have a worker and not just another "I burned the chicken". As well, on the 10-30 (confirmed major structure fire) YFD gets additional units, and YPD for traffic, and EMS for medical conditions/aided cases possibly resulting from said incident.

Oswego,

No.........

It is not a "re-tone". It's an alert/notification to the rest of Companies that a 10-30 has been called. That's it. It most certainly is not a re-tone.

When you read the reports, it's not listed as "re-toned" a 10-30. 10-30 in Yonkers just means that we're using the full first alarm assignment. M.S.U. is called,

and I believe a D/C also. I think even Con-Ed......I'm sure Chief Flynn can confirm.

It isn't even a Second Alarm.

From what I got from this thread, re-toning is calling for men to respond that haven't already; an additional tone out to let volunteer members know help is needed now.

Even the VAC's re-tone 2 sometimes 3 times for members to respond before they need to call M/A.

I just don't think it's the same thing....

[Guest DFFD227]

yfd910...if the tones are going out again, or more than once...it's a RE-TONE. Tones activate pagers. If a tone is dropped, and sets off or alerts pagers, that is a Re-Tone....Technically speaking.