Chief EMS Officer(s) Problems: What to do when its time to go...

[nycemt728 49]

What do you do when the chief officers of an EMS organization are out of touch with the EMS world and the staff and are killing the organization? Are there any DOH requirments for being in charge of an EMS organization in NYS (as in the the chief must be an EMT) and if so, how are they enforceable? Has anyone had this problem where the leadership is doing serious damage to the organization but cannot be removed at all??? Any opinion/help would be welcome

[mfc2257 464]

Volunteer = Vote them out

Career = Letter of "no confidence" signed by each subordinate and sent to whomever is the chief officer's boss.

Edited March 18, 2008 by mfc2257

[nycemt728 49]

Voting is not a an option as they are not elected, but picked by the board, who in turn votes in their own members....

[Remember585 815]

Split EMS from the FD. That was one of the driving factors in the decision we made to do so. Too many "Officers" who lacked EMT or even CFR certification telling EMTs what to do. Enough was enough.

[ex-commish 490]

What do you do when the chief officers of an EMS organization are out of touch with the EMS world and the staff and are killing the organization? Are there any DOH requirments for being in charge of an EMS organization in NYS (as in the the chief must be an EMT) and if so, how are they enforceable? Has anyone had this problem where the leadership is doing serious damage to the organization but cannot be removed at all??? Any opinion/help would be welcome

I believe it would be a home rule issue like anything else.

[nycemt728 49]

Not a part of the FD....strictly a volly EMS squad w/ no municipal ties.

[biglew 3]

Ok EMS is not my field of expertise, but how does someone lead a squad without some level of EMS certification? I understand commisioners dont have to come through the ranks, and usually thier authority is dotted line authority,not field or command authority, but you were referring to chiefs. I thought the protocol was some level of understanding of what and who they are supervising.

Can you elaborate a little?

[nycemt728 49]

Yes that would seem logical that the top person be certified and that is what many of us have been saying. Without going into too much detail, the chief (in charge operationally) has no current medical certification except CPR, used to be an EMT but has not recerted in several years.

[biglew 3]

Wow. And you staed the board picks the chief, the members do not elect thso person. Maybe someone can enlighten the board that this is highly atypical, at least from what I know. How does someone not recertify? I know you cant go into detail for personal reasons, but this seems odd.

You say they cannot be removed, people can always be removed. If your other squad members agree with your position, bring it to the attention of the board.

[nycemt728 49]

Agreed, all odd. The board does not see an issue with it. As for removal, we have been told that anyone who does not like the admin or their decisions can and should resign. There is no legitimate way to remove w/in the squad's constituion or bylaws...which is why I am asking about other alternatives or past experiences.

[biglew 3]

Sometimes you cant work for someone if you cant respect them. This might be one of those times unfortunately. Might be time to volunteer for another bus. If the board is unwilling to listen to valid concerns of its members, maybe youre time is better spent somewhere else.

How long are the chiefs terms?

[nycemt728 49]

Chiefs terms (and all officers for that matter) are unlimited/at the discretion of the board

[DaRock98 76]

Wow thats a pretty bad situation Im sorry I don't have any advice for you but I do wish you luck! Let us know if you have any luck Im interested to hear the outcome.

[GM911 0]

If you have a local paper, how about getting the public involved and have some members of the community write some "letters to the editor" demanding new leadership in the department

[Guest]

If you have a local paper, how about getting the public involved and have some members of the community write some "letters to the editor" demanding new leadership in the department

great idea. it'll put some pressure on them, maybe things will change.

[RWC130 594]

By-Laws should have a "Minimum Qualifications" section for Line Officers

which state they should be an EMT or Paramedic depending on the level of care

that the EMS Agency provides. Might not be a bad idea to cover Experience also.

You are an EMS Officer, How long have you been an EMT or Paramedic?

I understand that some Admin positions or Board Member position need not be an EMT or Paramedic (they should be) but

as far as someone involved in Operations of the VAC absolutely!

Propose a By-Law change with the General Membership and make a date which

this must take effect such as January 1, 2009.

As far as the Press.... Yeah that's not a bad idea BUT.....

Do you really wanna open the flood gates?

GOOD LUCK!

[firemoose827 324]

I would have to agree with Rob on this one, it seems your only hope is to start getting your squad to band together and go after the By-Laws and SOP's, re-write them, propose changes like minimum qualifications for officer, term limits for both officers and board members, and have each position be voted on by the membership. This way no one person or group of people can dominate the squad for as long as they want to. It has to be a fair system, you are the membership, you are the ones who go out and train and do the calls, so therefore you should have more of a say in your squad and how its run. You should be given the chance to vote democraticaly for your officers and not have them be appointed by "Friends" in high places, in fact, last time I checked that kind of control was called a "Dictatorship", right?

In our squad we as a membership vote for all of our officers annualy in April, and in order to be eligible for nomination you have to be a member in good standing for five years, and an EMT for 3 years. Our boards only purpose is to audit the books annualy for the organization, so they have no formal power to speak of, which is how it should be. Too much power given to people with little or no experience at all is a bad thing, as you are finding out.

I feel for you guys bro. I hope you are able to research this further and start to submit proposals for By-Law Changes, which every organization should have the right to do. Good Luck!

[Guest feraldan]

What do you do when the chief officers of an EMS organization are out of touch with the EMS world and the staff and are killing the organization? Are there any DOH requirments for being in charge of an EMS organization in NYS (as in the the chief must be an EMT) and if so, how are they enforceable? Has anyone had this problem where the leadership is doing serious damage to the organization but cannot be removed at all??? Any opinion/help would be welcome

I know exactly how you feel.

We have 2 non-EMT line officers and 3 non-EMT board members. That means the majority of the people making major decisions have no medical experience. They were all elected by the general membership (which is mostly non-EMT and doesn't really care what happens.)

They have more or less hijacked the organization.

I've abandoned hope.

Edited March 19, 2008 by feraldan

[smwells 7]

I think a "sick out" of the volunteers might shake up the board a bit, let the jobs go mutual aid. Unfortunately the membership and public will lose out long before the board will take action..

As it was memntioned before maybe the members need to go public or hit the road if they feel that it's not safe with the current officers. I am sure a sever decline in membership will wake up the board as they will be forced to look at the situation

[ex-commish 490]

I think a "sick out" of the volunteers might shake up the board a bit, let the jobs go mutual aid. Unfortunately the membership and public will lose out long before the board will take action..

As it was memntioned before maybe the members need to go public or hit the road if they feel that it's not safe with the current officers. I am sure a sever decline in membership will wake up the board as they will be forced to look at the situation

So if someone dies due to a lack of response what excuse do you use..." we don't like our chief...sorry". Remember we exist for the public, not ourselves.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Well if EMS were like the fire service, they would go from operational to being commissioners.

There are ways to handle a...ahem aaaa choosickout....without causing disruption completely to the customers. Talk to your surrounding agencies similiar to yours and discuss your problems or how they would like to have an influx of people like you who want better.

One thing I can say is if you go all out, make sure you know who your friends are and speak facts not emotion when you keep making your case.

[nycemt728 49]

Thanks for all the suggestions and support...just an update to keep the juices flowing, changes to the bylaws must be approved/voted upon by none other than, you've gussed it...the board. Your right, we do exist for the public good, which is the main reason many of us (other than love of the job) have not left or staged a sick out.