Update on Stamford Merger

[Dinosaur 844]

40+ current volunteers were given interviews by the Fire Commission, 8 of those were "promoted" to the career section and paid status pending the successful completion of CPAT and a 13 week local academy.

And, from what I'm reading, this bypassed people currently on the civil service list for the position of FF? How's that kosher?

I don't know. The article is ambiguous at best regarding that. The TOR person is pretty much saying the grant will cover all of them due to paying a lower level of total compensation (specifically benefits) than current city firefighters. The PSD for the city is saying the grant won't cover all of the costs and will make up the difference from "(department) savings from having hired the firefighters", but is that the city department or TOR? Additionally, it's not clear if the difference that will be made up is the amount needed to provide compensation equal to that of the existing career firefighters or the "reduced" compensation level that the TOR person alluded to.

Considering that TOR put in for the grant independently and openly stated the intent to pay the grant hires a lower compensation package compared to the city firefighters, it's probably not a case of them asking for "not enough" money from SAFER.

How do you have two different pay scales and benefit packages for people in the same civil service title and same hire date?

[FireMedic049 597]

How do you have two different pay scales and benefit packages for people in the same civil service title and same hire date?

That's pretty much my point.

Beyond that.......since the grant hires have to be assigned to TOR............are we going to see career staffed TOR units with 4 FFs and no officer while existing career unit staffing includes an officer?

[x152 179]

- There will not be any difference in pay plans. The 8 "special" hires will have the same pay and benefits as the other 6 (or more) hires off of the legitimate entrance list. The only difference with the 8 will be the entrance process (and all concerns with it) and a provision that allows the employee to chose to stay at one of the ToR Stations (something that is in clear violation of the current CBA and will be easily overturned by the Local's challenge).

- The FEMA Grant requires 24 hires for compliance. As of now, the City has only hired 8 for the grant. Existing personnel cannot count toward the intent of the grant. Existing personnel cannot be supplanted by the grant.

The City had preliminary approval to hire and funding for up to 8 personnel as of late winter. Candidates were interviewed, but never appointed. In May, the City was awarded an additional attrition grant from FEMA for 6 personnel. Those attrition grant personnel were hired off of the existing "legitimate" entrance list and prior to the appointment of the 8 off of the special list.

One could quickly see a problem for the City when they seek reimbursement of the grant funds if they quickly do not hire 16 more people for the grant. Since the additional hiring is very unlikely, it is quite possible that the City fails to yield one dollar of the original 24 FF SAFER grant.

Read between the lines and do the math, you can easily see the strategy in their financial shell game.

Also - there will be NO new units assigned to TOR Stations. The proposed changes call for Stamford Engine 8 to relocate to TOR Station 1 and Stamford Engine 9 to relocate to TOR Station 2. The existing Stamford career staff of a minimum of an Officer, driver and FF will continue to staff Engines 8 and 9.

[FireMedic049 597]

- There will not be any difference in pay plans. The 8 "special" hires will have the same pay and benefits as the other 6 (or more) hires off of the legitimate entrance list. The only difference with the 8 will be the entrance process (and all concerns with it) and a provision that allows the employee to chose to stay at one of the ToR Stations (something that is in clear violation of the current CBA and will be easily overturned by the Local's challenge).

- The FEMA Grant requires 24 hires for compliance. As of now, the City has only hired 8 for the grant. Existing personnel cannot count toward the intent of the grant. Existing personnel cannot be supplanted by the grant.

The City had preliminary approval to hire and funding for up to 8 personnel as of late winter. Candidates were interviewed, but never appointed. In May, the City was awarded an additional attrition grant from FEMA for 6 personnel. Those attrition grant personnel were hired off of the existing "legitimate" entrance list and prior to the appointment of the 8 off of the special list.

One could quickly see a problem for the City when they seek reimbursement of the grant funds if they quickly do not hire 16 more people for the grant. Since the additional hiring is very unlikely, it is quite possible that the City fails to yield one dollar of the original 24 FF SAFER grant.

Read between the lines and do the math, you can easily see the strategy in their financial shell game.

Also - there will be NO new units assigned to TOR Stations. The proposed changes call for Stamford Engine 8 to relocate to TOR Station 1 and Stamford Engine 9 to relocate to TOR Station 2. The existing Stamford career staff of a minimum of an Officer, driver and FF will continue to staff Engines 8 and 9.

Prior information released indicated that the 24 SAFER FFs all had to work at TOR for the duration of the grant period.

If the plan is to relocate existing career staffed units into the TOR stations, how are they going to comply with that requirement?

I'm not 100% positive about it, but I'm pretty sure that they will be reimbursed for the FFs that they do hire, even if they don't end up hiring all 24 for whatever reason.

I'm not sure the financial shell game is as obvious to some as it may be to you. Could you enlighten the rest of us?

[x152 179]

I am fairly certain that the FEMA grant cannot be cherry-picked for funding.

If it looks like the City is not on a path to compliance, that would be a reasonable prediction.

The shell game would end up with 6 hires off the City list paid for by the second attrition grant, 8 hires off the vol list paid for by existing allocated funds that were previously allocated for the hires that were supposed to occur earlier in the year, and the larger SAFER grant being forfeited due to lack of compliance.

If we step away from all the noise and look at the numbers, there are too many obtuse moving parts here to form into an understandable pathway for funding using the FEMA award. Actual employee costs, available budgeted funds, ancillary new employee expenses and overall logic fail to support the originally outlined hiring "plan".

Perhaps I am wrong, but I no longer have the confidence to believe that those moving parts will play out to the tune of a politician's ego or agenda.

The irony of this whole debate may be that the FEMA grant that sparked this latest chapter, may never actual pay one cent back to the same people who championed it as the savior to this endless debate.

Check in with me in a few months and I will be happy to admit if I was wrong for thinking this way.

[FFPCogs 863]

Actual employee costs, available budgeted funds, ancillary new employee expenses and overall logic fail to support the originally outlined hiring "plan".

That's because there never was any logic to it to begin with. The "plan" has always been about ToR getting the people they want working in their two houses...and in the short term that just what they're going to get.

[Bnechis 3,961]

SAFER grants as with all AFG grants can be modified. If you reduce the number of hires, you have to write a paragraph or 2 explaining your reason and thanking them (not required). If they only hire 8 or 16, they only download the money for that amount. FEMA works with you to try to get you the best arraignment.

The only absolute with SAFER is you can not go back and ask for more. If you failed to anticipate raises or other costs, that's on you.

[TRex 9]

If the Stamford Fire Protection Delivery Services are to act as one "co-hesive" entity, why then are the vol. chiefs complaining about not being invited to the table top hurricane drill? Are they not aware that it is one department now as the city voters have indicated they want it to be? It would seem that they are still stuck on the fact that they are no

longer chiefs of separate departments. One department. They are more accurately now district chiefs of separate companies for separate districts. Wake up District Chiefs. I do not think the Director of Public Health and Safety screwed up and over sighted them, like the over sight to pay for new fire engines.

Along those same lines with supposedly one Fire Protection Delivery System, perhaps training for LRFD and its infallible chief should include operations on hydrants. Perhaps they can instruct on HOW TO FRACTURE A PRIMARY WATER MAIN and

ignore that it occurred or that they possibly were responsible for it.

[SECTMB 612]

So it seems that even with all this consolidation talk, that Stamford placed a paid engine to respond within the TOR response district. It looks like it was done simply and cost effectively by using a pre-manufactured Butler style garage bay and an accompanying pre-manufactured home as the living and staging quarters.

So are both City and TOR dispatched together for all alarms with City provided immediate response and TOR coming in first of second due depending on staffing and call location?

I wish NY would change its rules and allow the County to do stations like this which would cover multiple volunteer districts to ensure that there is an immediate response to all calls while the local volunteer department assembles and responds.

[STAT213 332]

Why can't the volunteers just do that? It's done in many other places around the country. Staff the station in 6 hour or 12 hour blocks.

Up around Syracuse, for example, a number of towns are staffing engines every day. Three or more departments take turns being the host. Any of the departments members can ride.

Example: thornwood, Hawthorne, pleasantville and Valhalla get together, do some paperwork and then post openings for a staffed engine during the day. Six or 12 hour shifts. D/O, officer and one tailboarder. (Or more, heck fill the thing if you can).

They respond to ALL calls in the response area, and even start jumping calls OUTSIDE their area. Yikes! But they are in the station, staffing the pump. Reduces the volunteer commitment to something manageable. Allows people to go on calls, and not just drive to the firehouse and get cancelled by the chief.

Is anyone in westchester thinking outside the box like this?

(Sorry if you feel I hijacked your very well done photo essay on the new E8, Seth...throw my post on another page if you want, just wanted to put this idea out there.)

Edited August 21, 2014 by STAT213

[x152 179]

So it seems that even with all this consolidation talk, that Stamford placed a paid engine to respond within the TOR response district. It looks like it was done simply and cost effectively by using a pre-manufactured Butler style garage bay and an accompanying pre-manufactured home as the living and staging quarters.

So are both City and TOR dispatched together for all alarms with City provided immediate response and TOR coming in first of second due depending on staffing and call location?

I wish NY would change its rules and allow the County to do stations like this which would cover multiple volunteer districts to ensure that there is an immediate response to all calls while the local volunteer department assembles and responds.

Just to clarify, the Stamford Engines (8 and 9) have been responding from within the Turn of River District for more than 6 years.

Dispatch protocol is to send a career response to all incidents. Ex: medicals get an engine, Vehicle collisions get a career engine and rescue and structural runs will get 3-4 Engines, Truck, Rescue, and Shift Commander. The district volunteer department (Turn of River) is also dispatched on the initial assignment and may respond. However, the percentage of responses by them is quite low in comparison to many other VFDs and often with only 2 or 3 personnel.

Belltown VFDs Truck is also added to structural response into Turn of River's response area.

[FFPCogs 863]

Why can't the volunteers just do that? It's done in many other places around the country. Staff the station in 6 hour or 12 hour blocks.

Up around Syracuse, for example, a number of towns are staffing engines every day. Three or more departments take turns being the host. Any of the departments members can ride.

Example: thornwood, Hawthorne, pleasantville and Valhalla get together, do some paperwork and then post openings for a staffed engine during the day. Six or 12 hour shifts. D/O, officer and one tailboarder. (Or more, heck fill the thing if you can).

They respond to ALL calls in the response area, and even start jumping calls OUTSIDE their area. Yikes! But they are in the station, staffing the pump. Reduces the volunteer commitment to something manageable. Allows people to go on calls, and not just drive to the firehouse and get cancelled by the chief.

Is anyone in westchester thinking outside the box like this?

(Sorry if you feel I hijacked your very well done photo essay on the new E8, Seth...throw my post on another page if you want, just wanted to put this idea out there.)

That option and similar ones have been proposed on numerous occasions here in Stamford, but as of yet have not borne any fruit. There is a contingent among the city's volunteers who continue to look at options to remedy, even if only in part, the current state of over all volunteer responses to incidents. Unfortunately in most cases none of these members are command level personnel so the battle is doubly difficult as first the Chiefs and then the City have to be convinced. Thus far we have been fortunate in that those who have taken on the challenge have not lost interest and continue the struggle. A better fire service which combines both career and volunteer elements is possible here, it will just take what it takes to make it happen, so for those so committed the fight goes on..and on and on and on........

[AFS1970 504]

Why can't the volunteers just do that? It's done in many other places around the country. Staff the station in 6 hour or 12 hour blocks.

Up around Syracuse, for example, a number of towns are staffing engines every day. Three or more departments take turns being the host. Any of the departments members can ride.

Example: thornwood, Hawthorne, pleasantville and Valhalla get together, do some paperwork and then post openings for a staffed engine during the day. Six or 12 hour shifts. D/O, officer and one tailboarder. (Or more, heck fill the thing if you can).

They respond to ALL calls in the response area, and even start jumping calls OUTSIDE their area. Yikes! But they are in the station, staffing the pump. Reduces the volunteer commitment to something manageable. Allows people to go on calls, and not just drive to the firehouse and get cancelled by the chief.

Is anyone in westchester thinking outside the box like this?

(Sorry if you feel I hijacked your very well done photo essay on the new E8, Seth...throw my post on another page if you want, just wanted to put this idea out there.)

For those who remember Stamford had a unit like this called Squad 81. This was a unit staffed by 3-5 people, and responding on all full boxes in the Big 5 area. Most of the time it was an Engine, although it also used Rescues and sometimes a van, which lead to inconsistent resources for IC's. I was too junior at the time to ever ride the squad. It had a lot of potential but remembering that a camel is a horse designed by committee, the Squad was just such a camel. Now with the proliferation of staffed Engines around the city, such a Squad could operate without the need (although it would be nice) to be in a Engine all the time. I can think of one unit that would make a perfect Squad.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Why can't the volunteers just do that? It's done in many other places around the country. Staff the station in 6 hour or 12 hour blocks.

Up around Syracuse, for example, a number of towns are staffing engines every day. Three or more departments take turns being the host. Any of the departments members can ride.

Example: thornwood, Hawthorne, pleasantville and Valhalla get together, do some paperwork and then post openings for a staffed engine during the day. Six or 12 hour shifts. D/O, officer and one tailboarder. (Or more, heck fill the thing if you can).

They respond to ALL calls in the response area, and even start jumping calls OUTSIDE their area. Yikes! But they are in the station, staffing the pump. Reduces the volunteer commitment to something manageable. Allows people to go on calls, and not just drive to the firehouse and get cancelled by the chief.

Is anyone in westchester thinking outside the box like this?

(Sorry if you feel I hijacked your very well done photo essay on the new E8, Seth...throw my post on another page if you want, just wanted to put this idea out there.)

That's the only way volunteers are permitted to operate down here in Prince George's County. There is no such thing as home response here, except for Chief Officers who have take home vehicles from their companies or those who are assigned a vehicle by the County FD. Some stations are all career, most are combination, and a few are 100% volunteer. Your company requires you to do a certain number of hours of staffing (Its company specific, but for us its 32 hours a month for in-state volunteers, 8 a month for out-of-staters and 48 hours a week for live ins.)

Most of the live-ins are college aged guys/gals going to school, typically for Fire Science at UMD or one of the community colleges, though an increasing number are going to Paramedic school. Given our station's proximity to Andrews AFB, we also get a lot of volunteers who have jobs on base and live in the area.

Some volunteer companies are staffed 24/7 (typically the 100% volunteer ones) but most of them are combination and they get a shift together when there are people available.

Each type of unit has a designated minimum staffing by County SOP. When your company is staffed you notify Communications and you're put into the CAD as an available unit. The CAD assigns the closest units to fill out the required assignment, no picking and choosing. The CAD also allows for cross staffing (example, most of the time we cross staff between an Engine and a Rescue Squad, so the CAD can pull either unit depending on what they need us for.) Also the hierarchy between career/volunteer members/officers is clearly defined by county law so there is minimal confusion.

Don't get me wrong there's plenty of screwed up stuff about PG County, but by and large its a vast improvement from anything I've experienced in departments I was a part of in the northeast.

Edited August 21, 2014 by SageVigiles

[SECTMB 612]

Why can't the volunteers just do that? It's done in many other places around the country. Staff the station in 6 hour or 12 hour blocks.

Up around Syracuse, for example, a number of towns are staffing engines every day. Three or more departments take turns being the host. Any of the departments members can ride.

Example: thornwood, Hawthorne, pleasantville and Valhalla get together, do some paperwork and then post openings for a staffed engine during the day. Six or 12 hour shifts. D/O, officer and one tailboarder. (Or more, heck fill the thing if you can).

They respond to ALL calls in the response area, and even start jumping calls OUTSIDE their area. Yikes! But they are in the station, staffing the pump. Reduces the volunteer commitment to something manageable. Allows people to go on calls, and not just drive to the firehouse and get cancelled by the chief.

Is anyone in westchester thinking outside the box like this?

(Sorry if you feel I hijacked your very well done photo essay on the new E8, Seth...throw my post on another page if you want, just wanted to put this idea out there.)

I have suggested this very idea on other posts related to volunteer response. Day shifts, rotate whose house responds and at least there will be no question that a rig is on the road responding.

[Bnechis 3,961]

1) So it seems that even with all this consolidation talk, that Stamford placed a paid engine to respond within the TOR response district. It looks like it was done simply and cost effectively by using a pre-manufactured Butler style garage bay and an accompanying pre-manufactured home as the living and staging quarters.

2) I wish NY would change its rules and allow the County to do stations like this which would cover multiple volunteer districts to ensure that there is an immediate response to all calls while the local volunteer department assembles and responds.

1) Cost Effective? Really? While the pre-manufactured Butler style garage and living quarters is a cheap way to house firefighters, they are a stones throw from multi bay volunteer stations that refuse to allow the staffed units to be stationed with them and at the same time fail to get their fleet staffed during calls. so now you have multiple stations blocks apart covering each other. Total waste of $$$.

2) Thank god they don't. While I am all for regionalization. If one of the 59 local FD in Westchester can not provide an immediate response, they have a few options: 1. Work on internal issues to increase manpower, including shifts. 2. Merge with 1 or more other depts. 3. hire staff, 4. all of the above.

If a VFD in Westchester is unable to staff its calls it has options. Staffing career regional rigs is a Band-Aid they puts the financial burden on the county taxpayers and not on the local ones. Since my local taxes grantee a response to my house why should my county taxes go up to cover other locals who are unwilling to pay?

[x635 4,066]

Stamford is not the city it once was. The old system is not going to work in this booming city anymore. This picture illustrates that nicely.The old Stamford Hospital on the left, and the new Stamford Hospital due to open in 2016 on the right:

[Bnechis 3,961]

Stamford is not the city it once was. The old system is not going to work in this booming city anymore.

It has nothing to do with the City changing. You have volunteer stations in areas that have not dramatically changed. The issue is they, like many others nationwide no longer have enough volunteers available to cover the calls.

[FFPCogs 863]

Although he's been on the job for a number of weeks already, our new Assistant Chief of Volunteer Services was sworn in last night.

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/policereports/article/Stamford-volunteers-get-new-assistant-fire-chief-5874198.php

On a personal note, I can think of no one better for this job at this time. Chief Morris has already made more progress in his first few weeks than was accomplished by anyone prior. He is not only one of the most decorated, if not THE most decorated, members of the FDNY with an impeccable reputation and a vast wealth of experience, he is also a man who knows how to bring people together and get things done. He has come full circle, literally, having started his long and storied fire service career as a volunteer here in Stamford and now he's back guiding the ship through the many obstacles which we face. Beyond that, for me personally "Rex" is a mentor, a role model and most of all someone I consider myself privileged to be able to call a friend.

Congratulations "Boss"!!!

Edited November 6, 2014 by FFPCogs

[Bnechis 3,961]

Its really sad that it took this long, but Bobby is a great fire officer, great teacher and they could not have gotten a better man for the job. Best of luck.

[FFPCogs 863]

Justifiably proud of what we accomplished, the Instructors who gave their time and most importantly the students, who persevered through the class. We now pass them on to the capable hands of the SFD training division for the FF-1 program at the Stamford Regional Fire School on Sept 8th

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news...#photo-8450440

As the title of the article states we are now going full bore to recruit new members, who will in their turn go through the Recruit program as well. To date we've had a better than expected amount of interest, which jumped yesterday due to the article, so with some hard work we should reach our goal of 75 new members this year.

[Dinosaur 844]

So how's it going?  This thread just died off...

 

[FFPCogs 863]

Happy to say things are moving along pretty well with no real issues lately. 

[Quickness 7]

http://www.local786.org/8-1-16 Vol Letter to BOR.pdf

[FFPCogs 863]

1 hour ago, Quickness said:

http://www.local786.org/8-1-16 Vol Letter to BOR.pdf

As I read that letter I could only shake my head in disbelief. I guess all I can say to these chiefs is, you're pissing in the wind boys, the contract's been signed. You had your chance and because of your own arrogance, egos and pettiness you blew it...repeatedly. I really hate to say I told you so, but....if the shoe fits wear it.

 

It is truly sad to watch 108 years of service by volunteers wither and die when all of it could have been prevented with just a little forethought, humility and support. Some of us tried, and tried like Hell, only to be rebuffed by each of you at every turn...well now you Chiefs can enjoy the fruits of your self serving labors. You have no one to blame here but yourselves boys...but know this, in the process you screwed not only yourselves, but your memberships and most important of all, the people you were supposed to serve.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2016 by FFPCogs

[nfd2004 750]

We welcome you back "Update on Stamford Merger'. With almost 308,000 views, 69 pages and 2,065 post, plus this one, this has been NO DOUBT, the most popular, and most interesting thread on this site.

 

It's been awhile since I've made a visit to Stamford. But as I read that letter to the BOR one or two things mentioned particularly caught my attention.

 

One was about the fire apparatus riding right by the volunteer station. I knew that not too long ago, there were two individual mobile homes being used by the Stamford FD. One was used by the members of Engine 8 and I think one was used by the members of Engine 9. I understand the reason those mobile trailers/firehouses had to be put there is because TWO of those volunteer fire companies would NOT allow the career firefighters to operate out of their stations.  Turn of the River Vol Firehouse was one and has about three or four bays in a two story building. I would think there would be enough room for that piece of apparatus (E 8) and the three on duty firefighters. I believe these are within a 1/2 to 1 mile of each other.

 

  The other mobile trailer/firehouse (Engine 9 - ?) is even closer to the other Vol fire house.

 

  Wouldn't it be better to have Eng 8 operating out of TOR Firehouse and Eng 9 operating out of that other volunteer firehouse. That way EVERYBODY would know when the call came in and respond together.

 

  That's just common sense. Just close down those mobile trailer/firehouses and move those two companies into those Volly houses. The only real problem with that is if there is a problem with the career guys, they can be disciplined. But what can be done if there's a problem with the Volunteer guys.

 

  They move into the same firehouse and close down those mobile trailers.

 

  Training is another question I had. Is EVERYBODY really trained to the same level. Yes Firefighter basic level but didn't most of those Stamford guys have to attend some kind of recruit school ?

Edited August 6, 2016 by nfd2004

[FFPCogs 863]

15 hours ago, nfd2004 said:

  Wouldn't it be better to have Eng 8 operating out of TOR Firehouse and Eng 9 operating out of that other volunteer firehouse. That way EVERYBODY would know when the call came in and respond together.

 

  That's just common sense. Just close down those mobile trailer/firehouses and move those two companies into those Volly houses. The only real problem with that is if there is a problem with the career guys, they can be disciplined. But what can be done if there's a problem with the Volunteer guys.

 

  They move into the same firehouse and close down those mobile trailers.

 

  Training is another question I had. Is EVERYBODY really trained to the same level. Yes Firefighter basic level but didn't most of those Stamford guys have to attend some kind of recruit school ?

I think a little clarification is in order here.. E-9 now operates out of ToR station 2 and has been for a number of months now. This arrangement works because, save a few, ToR members rarely even go to that firehouse anymore. E-8 on the other hand is another matter. While the rig is housed in the firehouse, career members still sleep/live in the trailer. While it is true that there is a level of intransigence on both sides, as I understand it, this has more to do with the union not wanting to share facilities such as the bunk room, day room, offices ect. Last I heard they demanded separate sleeping quarters and a "quiet room" for the career member's use exclusively. Since ToR did not acquiesce to these demands the trailer stays. Depending on the group working, there is a varying degree of interaction between the paid and volunteer staff...some groups have no problem others basically exile themselves. In both Glenbrook and Springdale a similar living arrangement exists between the personnel, although this was agreed upon by all parties when career personnel moved in. Ultimately though and regardless of the fire department involved, this situation is not conducive to building a solid and productive  unified department.  

 

The bottom line in all this is that NO ONE is free from blame for the conditions that exist. For their part the union has been difficult at best to work with on a number of issues. The volunteer leaderships though do bear the lion's share of the burden in fixing the system. I have always been of the belief that the best way to solve the problem for the volunteer "side" was to accept that every complaint the union levied was true...even if it wasn't. Why? Because by addressing them the volunteers would:

 

1) enhance the level of service provided to the community

 

and  

 

2) remove each argument by the union in turn and thus take away their validity

 

I will give you one example. Back when Chief Conti was still in office, a Capt of the BFD and myself (also a Capt there at the time) approached him and asked him to give us the same promotional exam given to his career Captains. Of course we would have to be afforded the same list of study materials and time to prepare. We did discuss this a few times to get the process rolling, both with Chief Conti and our Chief and were on the path to making it happen. When asked why did we want to take the exam, our answer was very simple... we had been consistently questioned about our suitability and qualification to be Captains. After a little thought we realized the best way to deal this dilemma was take action, and that action was to take the same promotional exam and hence prove ourselves. I guess you could call it a case of what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Had we been given that opportunity and passed (which I can assure you we would have) we would have put to rest the question of our competence and eliminated one of the major charges so often levied against volunteers in general and us in particular.  We would also have had the ammunition to bring to our volunteer colleagues to get them on board with the idea of standardizing qualifications through testing for rank across the board...an idea we had been promoting for some time at that point.  Unfortunately in the interim Chief Conti resigned and the idea went with him. Any further mention of it thereafter met with stiff resistance from both "sides" of the divide and the idea has unfortunately since faded away into obscurity. Of course I have my suspicions as to why that is so, but they are just my opinions so they mean nothing. 

 

As of now it seems to me that the volunteers in Stamford will slowly and agonizingly fade out over coming years as more and more will be required of them. With each new requirement more and more volunteers will either rebel and refuse to comply or, for most I suspect,  just throw their hands up and leave. As I said earlier it is sad (and quite frankly infuriating) to watch what so many before us worked so hard to build crumble, especially when so many opportunities to prevent it were squandered. 

[nfd2004 750]

Thanks Pete, of course there are things that I was not aware of. I was not aware that Engine 9 now runs out of the TOR firehouse. To me, that in itself is some very positive progress. What I don't understand is why is it that it can work in one place and not the other ? As was mentioned, if those guys want a Quiet room set aside, "why not". They are required to be there for the entire night shift. At 2 am they have no choice on whether they want to respond or not. They may be required to work at peak physical strength during those hours with perhaps no rest in between. So just respect their request and I'm quite sure, the respect will be returned.

 

 I think the fact that it only seems to be an issue with one or two firehouses, that is much better than a few years ago. Of course the volunteer firefighters have their rights too. What about a volunteer firefighter riding with that career engine. NOT to replace their manning but to add to it. Put that in writing and I would not be surprised to see that agreed upon. It works out in many of the most progressive depts. in the country like that. A buddy of mine who I speak of quite often is a Retired U.S. Army Colonel and he spends at least one night a week riding as a volunteer firefighter on a career engine in Virginia. As a volunteer firefighter myself, I once rode as an added member to an engine co in Fairfield (CT). I didn't replace their manning but there were times when I know those career guys were glad we were there. Now as a retired career firefighter there were times when I wish we had a volunteer firefighter riding with us. Just one extra man can cut the time in HALF it takes to stretch a handline up three flights of stairs. The FDNY proved that several years ago.

 

 Just looking at it as one extra man on each engine and truck would occupy eleven volunteers on a given shift. (8 Engines and 3 Trucks - right). But what would be difficult for some to understand is that the career officer is the boss and fully responsible for what goes on. Perhaps a Volunteer Chief assigned to each station could be sort of an administrative chief to represent those volunteer firefighters and assign a schedule. And let those who want to be one of those chiefs take both a written and oral exam administrated by city officials. Include extra points for seniority just like most career depts.

 

 Regarding the subject of passing the same test for a promotion, as you are probably aware, just passing a written test may only be part of it. In addition, some guys year after year study and still don't get promoted. That promotion is only given to the TOP scorer after everything is considered, not just passing a written test. The competition is very often difficult to beat. 

 

  From the very beginning I always thought that Stamford, the fourth (?) largest city in Connecticut, could be a Role Model for the Fire Service. I still think it can.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2016 by nfd2004

[x152 179]

I find it interesting that Stamford volunteers that can't find common ground for issues such as joint-training, accountability, staffing, radio procedures, etc; but always seemed to form a concrete bond and unite whenever the City, Union, or City Fire Department can be attacked.

 

Volunteer firefighters wiring a letter against a tentative agreement after it has been reached in good faith between the City and the Union....

 

The same volunteers then go on to create a telephone campaign to City Representatives to spread more fear and lies about this agreement????

 

I have often read here how volunteers are often unfairly attacked by the big bad IAFF or how the IAFF has these (special pamphlets) that encourage hostility toward volunteers (ALL BS).

 

Yet, here is a glaring and very tangible example of another case were a handful of pathetic volunteer Fire Chiefs have attempted to affect the livelihoods of more than 280 union firefighters. Much like Port Chester, jealousy appears to be the number one value being promoted by some of these organizations. 

 

I can think of no more clear example of why the term "RIVAL ORGANIZATION" exists.

 

Regardless of what action occurs from the Stamford Board of Representatives, the damage done by these 5 clowns will assure an epic fissure will exist between career and volunteers in Stamford. For these 5 ninnies have managed to instantly erode any chance for cohesion within the system. Something that I suspect they knew full well when concocting their letter.

 

 

 

 

[FFPCogs 863]

56 minutes ago, x152 said:

I find it interesting that Stamford volunteers that can't find common ground for issues such as joint-training, accountability, staffing, radio procedures, etc; but always seemed to form a concrete bond and unite whenever the City, Union, or City Fire Department can be attacked.

 

Volunteer firefighters wiring a letter against a tentative agreement after it has been reached in good faith between the City and the Union....

 

The same volunteers then go on to create a telephone campaign to City Representatives to spread more fear and lies about this agreement????

 

I have often read here how volunteers are often unfairly attacked by the big bad IAFF or how the IAFF has these (special pamphlets) that encourage hostility toward volunteers (ALL BS).

 

Yet, here is a glaring and very tangible example of another case were a handful of pathetic volunteer Fire Chiefs have attempted to affect the livelihoods of more than 280 union firefighters. Much like Port Chester, jealousy appears to be the number one value being promoted by some of these organizations. 

 

I can think of no more clear example of why the term "RIVAL ORGANIZATION" exists.

 

Regardless of what action occurs from the Stamford Board of Representatives, the damage done by these 5 clowns will assure an epic fissure will exist between career and volunteers in Stamford. For these 5 ninnies have managed to instantly erode any chance for cohesion within the system. Something that I suspect they knew full well when concocting their letter.

 

 

 

 

Cap, it really does pain me to have to say this...but I agree with you on just about every point