Update on Stamford Merger

[FFPCogs 863]

“While I could see how you may disagree I can say with all candor that we at BFD are working diligently to ensure as smooth a transition as possible should the proposed Charter changes pass, while at the same time working to develop viable cooperative alternatives should it not. As you might expect we will do all we can to bring about the changes we feel are in our residents and our best interests, but as you say the political process will decide and ultimately that will be that.”

Pete:

Is this the smooth transition that you mentioned? Or is it the viable cooperative alternative?

It looks like, and I could be wrong, that since BFD is represented here, that they have no intention of going along with any political solution.

The charter commission met, and all parties had multiple opportunities to give their input for development of at least the framework for where Stamford’s fire service should be going. As proposed, I see no removal of any of the fire districts, but a responsibility given to 1 chief for all of the city. It appears that that independent panel of city residents didn’t entirely agree with any particular side.

As for R&R, the proposal gives the volunteer sector an assistant chief, chosen from their ranks to handle and represent their issues. Sure, there is a Chief above him, is he accountable for every issue? On paper yes, but then so is his boss, the director of Public Safety, and his boss, the Mayor. As it stands now, it appears to me, that the volunteer sector wants NO other bosses.

I believe, that the sense of frustration, as exhibited here over nearly one hundred pages, is also felt on the public side, and pressuring/threatening/coercing/warning – pick your verbiage; of a potential lawsuit is not helping the volunteer position.

http://www.boardofre..._ltr_120709.pdf

115 days to go.

Since I've been more than cooperative and forthright up to now it's time for a little quid pro quo.

I'm still waiting...

It has been weeks since I posed a question to my SFRD colleagues here asking for their opinions on our future as they envision it. The sad truth is I have answered every question put to me here openly and honestly but as of yet I have failed to recieve any answer save one, to the questions I have posed. So again I will ask...as we move forward what do you, my SFRD colleagues and fellow EMTBravo members, envision as our mutual future in terms of command, responses, volunteer represenation, integration ect?

Edited July 14, 2012 by FFPCogs

[FD828 77]

I invision a fully paid crew in every fire station 24/7, I also invision that if volunteers are trained (and that training documentation is provided) they can ride on the paid machines, I also invision that if deptartment "X" has a fully staffed crew for a ladder/engine/rescue(and that training documentation is provided) from the hours of ___ to ____ that they call dispatch and be put in service and added to the CAD which will recommend the closest appropriate machine for the call being dispatched. I invision that the career officers will be in charge of their crews and volunteer officers will be in charge of their crews. The SFRD deputy will respond to all calls and be there in case the VFD chief is not, or to provide an extra set of eyes/safety. There will be standards of training across the board for all ranks and positions. But alas, the SFRD ff's have absolutely no say in how any of this will work. The department says you will work here and that's where you work. And as long as the city doesn't violate the union's contact, I believe they have no say in how the forces will be deployed. Unlike the volunteers, career staff have no vote on the issues.

I also invision a lot of feet stamping and law suites........

[FFPCogs 863]

I invision a fully paid crew in every fire station 24/7, I also invision that if volunteers are trained (and that training documentation is provided) they can ride on the paid machines, I also invision that if deptartment "X" has a fully staffed crew for a ladder/engine/rescue(and that training documentation is provided) from the hours of ___ to ____ that they call dispatch and be put in service and added to the CAD which will recommend the closest appropriate machine for the call being dispatched. I invision that the career officers will be in charge of their crews and volunteer officers will be in charge of their crews. The SFRD deputy will respond to all calls and be there in case the VFD chief is not, or to provide an extra set of eyes/safety. There will be standards of training across the board for all ranks and positions. But alas, the SFRD ff's have absolutely no say in how any of this will work. The department says you will work here and that's where you work. And as long as the city doesn't violate the union's contact, I believe they have no say in how the forces will be deployed. Unlike the volunteers, career staff have no vote on the issues.

I also invision a lot of feet stamping and law suites........

Fair enough, thank you FD828. I think that in theory much of what you say has merit, although I seek a far more integrated system across the board. I will just add that I believe that the union will (or more likely must) have at least some impact on what the final determination is on just how integrated we can in fact become. Beyond doubt though there is much common ground from which to build, now it's just a matter of doing it in the spirit of cooperation and mutual respect. I can say without reservation that we remain open to all reasonable proposals toward that end and in that vein.

To the letter in question, my understanding is that it was written to enlighten the BoR on the potential pitfalls and unanswered questions of the proposed Charter language as written. It was hoped that through such enlightenment their decision would be to revisit and amend that language. Unfortunately this was not the case. Beyond that each VFD will, as a department, decide how they wish to proceed since that is how we all operate....as such my earlier statements vis a vis BFD stand.

Edited July 14, 2012 by FFPCogs

[Geppetto 31]

“…If anything, the proposed changes will lead only to more disharmony, escalated litigation,…”

I find that phrase particularly enlightening myself.

[FFPCogs 863]

Three enlightened words to live by as we move into uncharted territory....

Representation, Integration, Standardization

[Bnechis 3,961]

I kind of been wondering what does the average homeowner, particularly in North Stamford understand about this whole mess. Last week I went to a BBQ in TOR (near LR's district) at a long time friend of my parents. They have lived there for 40+ years and they asked if I knew anything about what was going on. I asked what they knew of the situation and they told me they knew from news reports that the volunteers were not getting to some serious fires and there were lots of lawsuits. They also told me they had had a fire about 12 years ago and thought the FD's did a good job (I asked what a good job was in there minds and they said the house did not burn down).

The husband is disabled and they have called 911 for assistance over the past 2 years and said that SFRD was the dept that showed up.

They were very concerned that since he can not get out on his own, that if they have a fire the VFD's might not show up and the SFRD will not have enough firefighters there quickly enough to help.

They also said they have had multiple visits from volunteers come and ring there doorbell and tell them they should be supported because they save so much money and they do the same job as SFRD. She told me that when asked why they did not respond to there calls, she said they would look into it, and thats why they need a paid volunteer department. She also said they never responded back with an answer.

[FFPCogs 863]

I kind of been wondering what does the average homeowner, particularly in North Stamford understand about this whole mess. Last week I went to a BBQ in TOR (near LR's district) at a long time friend of my parents. They have lived there for 40+ years and they asked if I knew anything about what was going on. I asked what they knew of the situation and they told me they knew from news reports that the volunteers were not getting to some serious fires and there were lots of lawsuits. They also told me they had had a fire about 12 years ago and thought the FD's did a good job (I asked what a good job was in there minds and they said the house did not burn down).

The husband is disabled and they have called 911 for assistance over the past 2 years and said that SFRD was the dept that showed up.

They were very concerned that since he can not get out on his own, that if they have a fire the VFD's might not show up and the SFRD will not have enough firefighters there quickly enough to help.

They also said they have had multiple visits from volunteers come and ring there doorbell and tell them they should be supported because they save so much money and they do the same job as SFRD. She told me that when asked why they did not respond to there calls, she said they would look into it, and thats why they need a paid volunteer department. She also said they never responded back with an answer.

PM me with their info and I'll see to it they get their answer.

[Geppetto 31]

Fire services issue to go before voters

Kate King

Stamford Advocate

Saturday, July 14, 2012

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Fire-services-issue-to-go-before-voters-3707691.php

[redddogg317 1]

Federal Grant to boost Stamford firefighter staffing article from the Stamford Advocate

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Federal-grant-to-boost-Stamford-firefighter-3707457.php

[Bnechis 3,961]

Federal Grant to boost Stamford firefighter staffing article from the Stamford Advocate http://www.stamforda...ral-grant-to-boost-Stamford-firefighter-3707457.php

Pavia, however, said on Friday he is considering holding off on handing the grant to elected officials for approval until the city's Charter Review Commission issues a referendum this November........" Pavia said. "Each of them are intricately entwined with each other. To go forward at this time without consideration would be irresponsible."

I hope its been made clear to the Mayor and the public that he has 30 days to accept the grant and 120 days (unless its been changed) to hire. If he knows this then he is willing to let the clock run out and not take the money.

[FD828 77]

Pavia, however, said on Friday he is considering holding off on handing the grant to elected officials for approval until the city's Charter Review Commission issues a referendum this November........" Pavia said. "Each of them are intricately entwined with each other. To go forward at this time without consideration would be irresponsible."

I hope its been made clear to the Mayor and the public that he has 30 days to accept the grant and 120 days (unless its been changed) to hire. If he knows this then he is willing to let the clock run out and not take the money.

Typical of this failed mayor and his administration

[FFPCogs 863]

I'm all for the grant but I think there are some unanswered questions that need some clarification:

This grant pays the full salaries and benefits of these 8 new FFs for two years correct?

What happens after that two years is up?

Who will pay these salaries then?

What's the salary step increase for year 3? Year 4? And year 5?

How much will these 8 FFs cost 5+ years from now?

Edited July 15, 2012 by FFPCogs

[CTFF 65]

Come on now Pete, you know all the answers to your questions. Why even ask?

[FFPCogs 863]

Come on now Pete, you know all the answers to your questions. Why even ask?

I realize what the broad parameters are for the grant, what I'm interested in is the specifics as they relate to Stamford. What specifically are the dollars and cents of this now and in the near future? When and to what level will the residents be liable should this grant be accepted? Unfortunately as usual nowhere in the Ragvocate article are these specifics spelled out. Before the BoR votes on this shouldn't the public be informed of what these costs are, either by the media or by SFRD? Of just what we will be expected of them once the grant runs out? Shouldn't any prospective candidates be made aware that they could conceivably face a layoff in two years as well? Aren't all entitled to be provided such facts so they can make an informed decision? It is no different than demanding a full accounting of any of the other issues swirling around our Fire Service...like say those surrounding the Mayor's plan.

And before you get your panties in a bunch I'm simply asking the questions asked of me by a number of my neighbors today after they read the article. Contrary to what you may think I want the grant to be accepted, but accepted without reservation or recrimination which can only happen with full transparency. The absolute worst thing would be for 8 guys to be hired only to face losing their jobs 2 years from now because the public doesn't want to pay for them once the grants run it's course.

Edited July 15, 2012 by FFPCogs

[Geppetto 31]

In any case, that would require certification of a hiring list, which the mayor has been stalling for quite some time. Now wouldn't that put a spin on things?!

[FFPCogs 863]

In any case, that would require certification of a hiring list, which the mayor has been stalling for quite some time. Now wouldn't that put a spin on things?!

Yet another rather large wrinkle

[Bnechis 3,961]

What specifically are the dollars and cents of this now and in the near future? When and to what level will the residents be liable should this grant be accepted?

Now: All personnel costs covered for years #1 & #2. SFRD must pay for turnout gear and training (if they pay for any other recruits), same for uniforms. If they normally require new members to pay, then SFRD does not have to.

After 2 years, SFRD must pay all costs to maintain. SFRD is not obligated by the grant or law to maintain the positions after the 2 years.

Before the BoR votes on this shouldn't the public be informed of what these costs are, either by the media or by SFRD?

How about by the Mayor, as the Grants 1st question is: has approval been given by the oversight level to submit this grant request?

Shouldn't any prospective candidates be made aware that they could conceivably face a layoff in two years as well? Aren't all entitled to be provided such facts so they can make an informed decision? The absolute worst thing would be for 8 guys to be hired only to face losing their jobs 2 years from now because the public doesn't want to pay for them once the grants run it's course.

Yes they should be advised, but at the time they are offered the job and not on EMTBravo or the newspaper. Yes it would be tough to lose it over funding. But the idea is to improve the safety of the citizens and the existing firefighters for the next 2 years. The hope is the economy will be better then and the funds can be found. The reality is over 2 years a dept the size of SFRD will probably have that many retirements and the positions might disapear based on attrition, but these new hired members will replace the retiring ones.

Even if they are laid off, they stay top of the list until positions open, so while it sucks to get laid off, it is highly likely that they will end up having a full career. They need to know whats up in the begining before they take that risk, but some will take it, even knowing what might happen.

[FireMedic049 597]

How much will these 8 FFs cost 5+ years from now?

Less than what the 51 new FFs proposed in the SVFD plan would cost 5+ years from now.

[FFPCogs 863]

Less than what the 51 new FFs proposed in the SVFD plan would cost 5+ years from now.

Non sequiter

[FFPCogs 863]

And herein lies the heart of my concerns:

"The new system contemplates a partnership between career and volunteer fire services," Sandak said. "If you have a true partnership, as issues come up -- and there will be issues, I'm not denying that -- they'll look for solutions."

The Charter Commission had the chance to build a fire service "inclusive of the volunteer service that exists" by granting all involved parties representation, including the public who has to pay for and live with it. Instead they chose to base all of our futures, career, volunteer and that same public alike, on an IF...and it's a very big if at that. Now it will fall to the public to decide if that IF is one they are willing to accept for Stamford.

I think it's ludicrous and the height of hubris to believe that 30 years of trouble will be swept away with the sunrise come November 7th and that a "true partnership" will be the result. History has clearly shown there's very little in the way of a foundation for that to happen readily. So then what? Who will "look for solutions"? Who will be a part of that process? Who will decide those solutions? The hard truth is both "sides" have firmly entrenched and powerful factions which brought us here, either one of which could be the real "winners". They won't disappear come that first Wednesday in November and it may very well be them who decides our collective future... and that prospect is one that should send a shudder down any reasonable persons spine. Better to have mandated that partnership, inclusive of the public we serve, through the Charter, thus guaranteeing it will exist and a true combining..a "true partnership" of the services could take place.

We shall see

Edited July 16, 2012 by FFPCogs

[efdcapt115 1,511]

And herein lies the heart of my concerns:

"The new system contemplates a partnership between career and volunteer fire services," Sandak said. "If you have a true partnership, as issues come up -- and there will be issues, I'm not denying that -- they'll look for solutions."

The Charter Commission had the chance to build a fire service "inclusive of the volunteer service that exists" by granting all involved parties representation, including the public who has to pay for and live with it. Instead they chose to base all of our futures, career, volunteer and that same public alike, on an IF...and it's a very big if at that. Now it will fall to the public to decide if that IF is one they are willing to accept for Stamford.

I think it's ludicrous and the height of hubris to believe that 30 years of trouble will be swept away with the sunrise come November 7th and that a "true partnership" will be the result. History has clearly shown there's very little in the way of a foundation for that to happen readily. So then what? Who will "look for solutions"? Who will be a part of that process? Who will decide those solutions? The hard truth is both "sides" have firmly entrenched and powerful factions which brought us here, either one of which could be the real "winners". They won't disappear come that first Wednesday in November and it may very well be them who decides our collective future... and that prospect is one that should send a shudder down any reasonable persons spine. Better to have mandated that partnership, inclusive of the public we serve, through the Charter, thus guaranteeing it will exist and a true combining..a "true partnership" of the services could take place.

We shall see

Eesh. Maybe you should call Bobby Valentine back again. lol (j/k by the way)

[FD828 77]

And herein lies the heart of my concerns:

"The new system contemplates a partnership between career and volunteer fire services," Sandak said. "If you have a true partnership, as issues come up -- and there will be issues, I'm not denying that -- they'll look for solutions."

The Charter Commission had the chance to build a fire service "inclusive of the volunteer service that exists" by granting all involved parties representation, including the public who has to pay for and live with it. Instead they chose to base all of our futures, career, volunteer and that same public alike, on an IF...and it's a very big if at that. Now it will fall to the public to decide if that IF is one they are willing to accept for Stamford.

I think it's ludicrous and the height of hubris to believe that 30 years of trouble will be swept away with the sunrise come November 7th and that a "true partnership" will be the result. History has clearly shown there's very little in the way of a foundation for that to happen readily. So then what? Who will "look for solutions"? Who will be a part of that process? Who will decide those solutions? The hard truth is both "sides" have firmly entrenched and powerful factions which brought us here, either one of which could be the real "winners". They won't disappear come that first Wednesday in November and it may very well be them who decides our collective future... and that prospect is one that should send a shudder down any reasonable persons spine. Better to have mandated that partnership, inclusive of the public we serve, through the Charter, thus guaranteeing it will exist and a true combining..a "true partnership" of the services could take place.

We shall see

I imagine a good person to start dealing with any issues that come up would be the newly appointed assistant chief in charge of volunteer services in conjunction with the career chiefs. You keep forgetting that the paid staff don't have a say in where they work or who they work with. Some of the career staff may not like where they are assigned or who they are assigned with, but unless they want to find another line of work, they will have to make the best of it. If the volunteers don't like it, well either they can grin and bear it, give it the old college try, or go some place else. And not for nothing, for the most part, the ff's on both sides that are responding on calls (except for a few isolated incidents) are working just fine together. Perhaps instead of being so afraid of the negative "what if's" and spreading fear about the way this is being forced on you, we can all look at all the positive "what if's"? Like what if this really works and lives and property are saved? What if we become one big happy progressive combo dept? Kinda hard to look at all the positive when you drown us with the possible negatives all the time. Lets be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

[mstrang1 213]

I imagine a good person to start dealing with any issues that come up would be the newly appointed assistant chief in charge of volunteer services in conjunction with the career chiefs. You keep forgetting that the paid staff don't have a say in where they work or who they work with. Some of the career staff may not like where they are assigned or who they are assigned with, but unless they want to find another line of work, they will have to make the best of it. If the volunteers don't like it, well either they can grin and bear it, give it the old college try, or go some place else. And not for nothing, for the most part, the ff's on both sides that are responding on calls (except for a few isolated incidents) are working just fine together. Perhaps instead of being so afraid of the negative "what if's" and spreading fear about the way this is being forced on you, we can all look at all the positive "what if's"? Like what if this really works and lives and property are saved? What if we become one big happy progressive combo dept? Kinda hard to look at all the positive when you drown us with the possible negatives all the time. Lets be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

I imagine nothing will change November 7. Or 8. Or 9. The Charter change, if passed, will create a new fire department. The fire commission, board of reps, the current SFRD and volunteer organizations all still have a lot of work ahead. The charter is a framework. Once passed, the real work begins. Once the inevitable lawsuits are settled, everything from new logos to letterhead to naming a Chief of the newly formed Stamford Fire Department must be dealt with. The volunteer organizations will be busy electing a new assistant chief, etc. I will come in to work every shift, just like usual. And you, Cogs, will report to BFD for coverage and respond on calls like usual. Like FD828 said, let's look for some positives.

[FFPCogs 863]

Very good posts gentlemen and well put. Thank you for the insight.

[SmokeyJoe 161]

Have we set a record yet? This has gotta be the longest thread ever.

Let's just just merge the districts into SFRD and be done with it. Enuf!

[FireMedic049 597]

Non sequiter

Cop-out.

[Geppetto 31]

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Stamford-residents-to-vote-on-charter-changes-3815459.php

"...The election's charter questions, which elected officials finalized earlier this month, represent the culmination of nearly a year's worth of work by the Charter Review Commission and Board of Representatives. The volunteer commission presented more than 70 recommendations to the board this summer, which city representatives whittled to nine ballot questions.

Chief among them is the question of whether Stamford should combine its professional and volunteer firefighters into one department under a single fire chief. City representatives approved a three-part ballot question on the subject, which proposes a unified department with one chief and one fire marshal. The department would also have assistant fire chiefs from both the career and volunteer ranks. The question stipulates that the "Volunteer Departments are an important component of the new combined department."

"We tried to formulate a structure where there would be a partnership between career and volunteers," Sandak said. "In fact, the proposed charter changes include language that solidifies the role of the volunteers in the Stamford fire service."

John Mallozzi, co-chairman of the Board of Representatives Charter Committee, said the question was designed to streamline Stamford's fire services, while highlighting the importance of the volunteer companies.

"We're talking about a consolidation of service that is fair," Mallozzi said. "That recognizes that there is one city department, but also recognizes the service that the volunteers give the city. There's language in that charter change that protects the volunteers. Nobody is going to push them out."..."

[Geppetto 31]

Stamford voters to settle fire dept. flap

Stamford Advocate

Kate King

Saturday, September 1, 2012

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Stamford-voters-to-settle-fire-dept-flap-3833802.php

[FFPCogs 863]

65 / 35 in favor of the revisions

[FD828 77]

Letter: Vote No To Stamford Fire Service Changes

So much for moving forward huh Cogs? The thing that you seemingly didn't mention is that the only thing that will come of a "no" vote on item #2 is that the mayor will go full steam ahead with the new paid "volunteer" fire dept. Spending countless tax payers dollars hiring 50+ new firefighters. Stamford will not become MD. The only thing that is going to happen is the same old mayor will try to push his ridiculous plan. If you think otherwise you are crazy. Maybe I we will all see a resolution to this mess before we are too old to benefit from it, I'm not holding my breath.

From the Stamford Daily Voice

http://stamford.dailyvoice.com/opinion/letter-vote-no-stamford-fire-service-changes