Update on Stamford Merger

[FFPCogs 863]

So because the last adminstration peed in your Cheerios, it's ok for the new admistration to act in this fashion? Or is it really crap, but because the VFD's seem to be favored it makes it ok?

That all depends on how one looks at it. For some it could just be that they believe that the Mayor's plan is the best one at this time, not that the VFDs are favored. Not much different than it was with SFRD a few years ago under Malloy. I must say it seems to me that sour grapes have led to a massive increase in hypocrisy on this issue.

Cogs

[FD828 77]

That all depends on how one looks at it. For some it could just be that they believe that the Mayor's plan is the best one at this time, not that the VFDs are favored. Not much different than it was with SFRD a few years ago under Malloy. I must say it seems to me that sour grapes have led to a massive increase in hypocrisy on this issue.

Cogs

I wish you would stand up and speak the truth, that what pavia is doing is a bunch of bullsh**. You have said it in past posts that you don't agree with his plan. You don't believe that the mayor's plan is the best one, yet you keep on defending it. You keep saying that you want what is best, yet you hide behind the legalities of the charter. You want to have cooperation of both sides? Then stand up, rally your troops and admit this joke of an administration is taking the fire service in Stamford backwards. Just because we may have some differences in opinion about how things should work, doesn't mean that the SFRD and VFD's couldn't stand together to rebut this ridiculous mayor and his so called plan. Perhaps that would be the step we all need to get together and work it out like men. Olive branches for everyone!. Putting all pride and egos aside and doing what is best for the citizens we swore we would serve and protect.

[Guest gotasmokerhere]

Where is your seven page powerpoint plan cogs on all the handlings of a 51 person combination dept? Many people here want to see it...

[FFPCogs 863]

Where is your seven page powerpoint plan cogs on all the handlings of a 51 person combination dept? Many people here want to see it...

Copies were provided at the task force meetings...ask around a little farther. Otherwise PM me and I'd be more than happy to discuss it with you or anyone interested at a mutually acceptable time and place.

Edited April 26, 2011 by FFPCogs

[FFPCogs 863]

I wish you would stand up and speak the truth, that what pavia is doing is a bunch of bullsh**. You have said it in past posts that you don't agree with his plan. You don't believe that the mayor's plan is the best one, yet you keep on defending it. You keep saying that you want what is best, yet you hide behind the legalities of the charter. You want to have cooperation of both sides? Then stand up, rally your troops and admit this joke of an administration is taking the fire service in Stamford backwards. Just because we may have some differences in opinion about how things should work, doesn't mean that the SFRD and VFD's couldn't stand together to rebut this ridiculous mayor and his so called plan. Perhaps that would be the step we all need to get together and work it out like men. Olive branches for everyone!. Putting all pride and egos aside and doing what is best for the citizens we swore we would serve and protect.

I have said that I disagree with a few elements of the current plan, and what those elements are are no secret, but be that as it may the Mayor's plan IMHO is still far better than the other alternative presently on the table and thus I will continue to defend it. As for getting together, well, read back a few pages or many of them in fact and you will see that I have put that offer out here many many times in the past only to be told "we can't go against City hall" or " we can't go against our admin on the 3rd floor" or "we can't go against our union". Well if that's the case who is going to get together then? A great plan would be a great plan no matter where it came from or who from each "side" put it together would it not? I will repeat a sentiment I shared with a SFRD Captain and put here quite some time ago, and one I still believe is possible. I can envision the day when we all, career and volunteer alike, stand shoulder to shoulder instead of toe to toe. Unfortunately it seems I am a minority of one who believes that scenario to be possible.

Cogs

Edited April 26, 2011 by FFPCogs

[FD828 77]

If the VFD chiefs went with the chiefs of SFRD (mainly Chief Brown) and together they went to the Mayor and the BOR saying together that this plan is wrong it would be a start. Us lowly firefighters have no say in what happens. We could all hold hands and it still wouldn't change a thing.

[FFPCogs 863]

If the VFD chiefs went with the chiefs of SFRD (mainly Chief Brown) and together they went to the Mayor and the BOR saying together that this plan is wrong it would be a start. Us lowly firefighters have no say in what happens. We could all hold hands and it still wouldn't change a thing.

Well I think we both can agree that we won't be seeing that anytime soon. If in fact we can do nothing than we must ride the rollercoaster to it's end while doing our best to provide for those we are here to serve. I guess this will go the way it's going to go then. Whatever happens and contrary to the popular belief of some I, like you, am here to serve and regardless of the outcome I will continue to do so to the best of my ability. I do believe that this sentiment is shared by all who are firefighters here.

Cogs

[jrf344 5]

Some random observations for Mr Cogs and his local FF's. Volunteer FF's go to calls when they feel like it or can. They go to training when they feel like it or can. They meet the 2 in 2 out when they feel like it or can (I have witnessed it while coming acros a assistant Chief in a basement of a working fire with a hose line by himself). They respond fully staffed on equipment when they feel like it (remember when they were supposed to be announcing number of members on board to dispatch). They respond on a utility vehicle (not an Engine)to a Fire Alarm to say they responded. I once witnessed a department choose not to respond to a call at Twin Rinks because they were going to a Parade. A Chief drives the apparatus to a call to make sure of response (fine if he is responding as a driver). I am not sure but I would guess that would be against NIMS/ICS. All your preaching about your proud strong Stamford Volunteers, why does it make sense to start paying 51 of you (no longer a volunteer). What does that do to your Volunteer Fire Departments? Makes them paid, no? A new taxing district? Thats what the tax payers need. What about when your bogus SAFER Grant runs out? How affordable is it going be then? How much does the city plan on paying the new employees? Do you think they are going to do it for less then the City FF's? If they do they are idiots. Do you think they won't organize and join a union later? How about your boy Maounis? Attacking the city FF's when he was part of the administration that signed off on the similiar contracts for the TOR guys? The TOR FF's had the 24 hour schedule first. What about when the Paid drivers were making more money than a city Lieutenant? And there is no reason for Maounis to reference FF's wives and families in a letter to the Bd of Reps.

[FFPCogs 863]

Some random observations for Mr Cogs and his local FF's. Volunteer FF's go to calls when they feel like it or can. They go to training when they feel like it or can. They meet the 2 in 2 out when they feel like it or can (I have witnessed it while coming acros a assistant Chief in a basement of a working fire with a hose line by himself). They respond fully staffed on equipment when they feel like it (remember when they were supposed to be announcing number of members on board to dispatch). They respond on a utility vehicle (not an Engine)to a Fire Alarm to say they responded. I once witnessed a department choose not to respond to a call at Twin Rinks because they were going to a Parade. A Chief drives the apparatus to a call to make sure of response (fine if he is responding as a driver). I am not sure but I would guess that would be against NIMS/ICS. All your preaching about your proud strong Stamford Volunteers, why does it make sense to start paying 51 of you (no longer a volunteer). What does that do to your Volunteer Fire Departments? Makes them paid, no? A new taxing district? Thats what the tax payers need. What about when your bogus SAFER Grant runs out? How affordable is it going be then? How much does the city plan on paying the new employees? Do you think they are going to do it for less then the City FF's? If they do they are idiots. Do you think they won't organize and join a union later? How about your boy Maounis? Attacking the city FF's when he was part of the administration that signed off on the similiar contracts for the TOR guys? The TOR FF's had the 24 hour schedule first. What about when the Paid drivers were making more money than a city Lieutenant? And there is no reason for Maounis to reference FF's wives and families in a letter to the Bd of Reps.

All I can say to this is that most involved have a much better understanding of the situation than you may think. Kool aid aside, the closer one looks at what's been proposed the clearer the picture becomes.

Cogs

[Geppetto 31]

Mayor backpedals over competing fire plan

Jeff Morganteen

Stamford Advocate

Wednesday, April 27, 2011

STAMFORD -- Mayor Michael Pavia on Wednesday morning backed off statements in a letter last week admonishing an assistant fire chief for planning to present a proposal to city representatives Thursday night considered an alternative to the mayor's plan for Stamford's troubled fire service.

Instead, the mayor is allowing Stamford Fire & Rescue Assistant Chief Peter Brown to speak before the Board of Representatives, which asked him to discuss a proposed expansion of the city-run career department that covers downtown Stamford. In contrast, the mayor has pushed merging four of the city's volunteer fire departments into a single organization providing fire protection with a mix of volunteer and newly hired professional firefighters....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Mayor-backpedals-over-competing-fire-plan-1355749.php

AND

A copy of THE letter is posted here - http://www.stamfordfiretruths.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/letter.jpg

[CTFF 65]

All I can say to this is that most involved have a much better understanding of the situation than you may think. Kool aid aside, the closer one looks at what's been proposed the clearer the picture becomes.

Cogs

Cogs,

I wonder how you view the picture of a few things.

1. The cities lawyer leaving out full sentences of the charter in regards to charter change? Is he simply incompetent or is he scared at how easy charter change's can be made. Yes I do recognize getting the changes worded properly is the hardest part of the change.

2. The mayor has tried to squash testimony in front of the board of reps ( possibly in violating of the charter.)?

If the Mayor's plan is the better plan why are they tryign to lie and scare people away from the Brown plan?

Edited April 28, 2011 by CTFF

[IzzyEng4 427]

1. The cities lawyer leaving out full sentences of the charter in regards to charter change? Is he simply incompetent or is he scared at how easy charter change's can be made. Yes I do recognize getting the changes worded properly is the hardest part of the change.

I just wanted to hit on this. In this day and age, all of CT's town's cities and boroughs have and are required to post their charters and any other legal information as ready for the public. Only thing a person has to do is to look it up on like or head to city / town hall and say "hey I want this information." Thank you FOI. This will dispel everything, but it seems no one has gone this route to prove that the mayor may have been hiding known facts. Or I might just be looking at it differently.

[Guest 786XP]

I just wanted to hit on this. In this day and age, all of CT's town's cities and boroughs have and are required to post their charters and any other legal information as ready for the public. Only thing a person has to do is to look it up on like or head to city / town hall and say "hey I want this information." Thank you FOI. This will dispel everything, but it seems no one has gone this route to prove that the mayor may have been hiding known facts. Or I might just be looking at it differently.

Wow, thanks Izzy, who would have thought about good old FOI. Now all of our answers will just flow out of City Hall!!!! The flood gates of fact are open!!

Keep up the good work, your dream job of working for the SVFD is still awaiting you.

[harleyrider72 0]

I applaude JRF344 right to the point with facts..... One thing we know is that in light people will not agree or say that you are right with your statement, other than to try and run circles around it and think of something else to say...

[Geppetto 31]

FOI? Way back in post #903 (I know, ancient history), it was mentioned that L786 was attempting to gather information from the Long Ridge Fire Company. Any one know if that bore any fruit?

[redddogg317 1]

FOI? Way back in post #903 (I know, ancient history), it was mentioned that L786 was attempting to gather information from the Long Ridge Fire Company. Any one know if that bore any fruit?

To answer the question of the FOI inquiry the answer is yes all FOI request were sent out about a year ago, but as you can guess all parties involved have been giving the run around including the city administration.

Some have started to comply lately but in trickles and drabs...not the city, they seem to be ignoring the request and yes a complaint has been filed with the FOI commission against those that have failed to comply.

[FD828 77]

Or have any of the other VFD's come forth with any of the info that was requested of them??? Don't think so......

[redddogg317 1]

Or have any of the other VFD's come forth with any of the info that was requested of them??? Don't think so......

After first denying the request in writing stating that since they were an all volunteer department that the didn't have time to honor the request, Belltown has started to slowly comply...I guess after hearing from the FOI commissioner as well.

Long Ridge is slowly coming around as well. TRFD is using thier lawyer to block it of course, and Springdale....well let's just say they got Shawn Fahan...nuff said

But of course the one who should comply right away...the city...not yet

[Guest gotasmokerhere]

Here is the link that will take you interested parties to the fire service plan created by "Cogs." If you were hoping to see work schedules, apparatus manpower, salaries and benefits, location of apparatus, budgets... well none of that is included (gee, go figure)!

On the same page is the link to the plan put forth by the SFRD admin.

Plant corn, get corn...

http://www.boardofreps.org/content/99653/99664/default.aspx

[Geppetto 31]

Brown questioned on alternative fire plan

Jeff Morganteen

Stamford Advocate

April 28, 2011

...Brown went on to explain his expansion of the city fire department, which consisted of shuffling existing manpower and staying within constraints of the current operating budget. The plan operates under the assumption that volunteer chiefs would allow city firefighters into the firehouses owned by the volunteer fire departments, which are separate organizations from the city.

"We believe that every household in the city deserves the same level of fire protection," Brown said. "That is not generally happening right now...."

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/default/article/Brown-questioned-on-alternative-fire-plan-1357744.php

[IzzyEng4 427]

Keep up the good work, your dream job of working for the SVFD is still awaiting you.

No thanks, I already have a job and am a charter member of my local thank you. Maybe see you at the president's conference next week at Foxwoods? Come by and talk to me.

[Guest 786XP]

No thanks, I already have a job and am a charter member of my local thank you. Maybe see you at the president's conference next week at Foxwoods? Come by and talk to me.

Great! a charter member in the house!

If you are referring to the UPFFA President's conference, I will have to pass. If I want to see steak fueled gluttony, I could just stay home and watch Man Vs. Food.

But....... I am really getting stoked for the upcoming Englebert Humertdick show and perhaps we could hook up then , who should I be looking for ?

[IzzyEng4 427]

Great! a charter member in the house!

If you are referring to the UPFFA President's conference, I will have to pass. If I want to see steak fueled gluttony, I could just stay home and watch Man Vs. Food.

But....... I am really getting stoked for the upcoming Englebert Humertdick show and perhaps we could hook up then , who should I be looking for ?

Nope, taking about the IAFF state & provincial presidents' confrence.

BTW, look at the signature, your information is all there who to look for. Stop by, we'll chat.

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[FFPCogs 863]

Here is the link that will take you interested parties to the fire service plan created by "Cogs." If you were hoping to see work schedules, apparatus manpower, salaries and benefits, location of apparatus, budgets... well none of that is included (gee, go figure)!

On the same page is the link to the plan put forth by the SFRD admin.

Plant corn, get corn...

http://www.boardofre...64/default.aspx

You're looking in the wrong place

Just a few points on that option:

1) There are aspects that are not fully covered, such as the pay figures. We were not able to get all the info on SFRD benefits and overtime when it was compiled, but the base salary info was taken directly from the CBA, page 44 I believe.

2) The "plan" has been reviewed by a number of outside parties, including Fire Science staff and students at UNH and regional FD personnel. While it needs work (something which we who compiled it stated from the outset) all have found it to be a viable plan overall and a good foundation for the future.

3) As was stated at the task Force meeting and as is indicated within the material, it was and is a foundation on which to build and includes a reasonable and more importantly realistic time frame of implementation.

4) Presently there are some revisions underway which address current developments.

BTW the offer still stands for you or anyone to sit down and examine it in it's original form since you find it so interesting. We welcome further scrutiny as this will allow us to modify the content to better reflect the situation as it now stands as opposed to 2 years ago when it was originally compiled.

Cogs

[FFPCogs 863]

Brown questioned on alternative fire plan

Jeff Morganteen

Stamford Advocate

April 28, 2011

http://www.stamforda...lan-1357744.php

I think Chief Brown did a great job of presenting SFRD's vision of the future for Stamford's Fire Service, but it was not a knock out punch by any means. Along with the info requested by the BoR there are some other points that need further clarification such as:

the disposition of the VFD fire districts which in the original version were to be eliminated

the expected differences in response times once units are moved

the costs involved should other facilities be required

union endorsement or lack thereof

volunteer participation in developing all aspects of operations

and others.

Personally I don't think either plan currently on the table is a sure thing. To that end maybe, as Rep Pia suggested, all the Chiefs will end up in a room and not leave until another mutually acceptable plan has been developed. Or maybe another option will yet be presented to the BoR for their consideration. I guess only time will tell.

Cogs

[Geppetto 31]

So the choices that exist so far are -

1. Peter Brown Plan - which appears to have at least some support, especially with the idea of one "boss" for all fire services. After watching the anti-SFRD/Local 786 inquisition by one particular member of the Board of Representatives, it is safe to say that the Belltown contingency is probably not in that category. One will see where this goes after real numbers come in (for the other proposals) so that a comparison can be made.

2. Peter Cog's Plan - which set up different working schedules for the career staff; making it surely a target for L786. I guess we all just love our children, no matter what they do.

3. Peter Pan Plan, proposed by the mayor; because if you think this is going to fly, you're going to have to believe in fantasy's too.

In any case, it will lead to probably another 60 pages of meaningless dialogue here.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Geppetto

[Geppetto 31]

Stamford fire chief plans to step down after 41 years on the line

Jeff Morganteen

Stamford Advocate

April 30, 2011

STAMFORD -- Robert McGrath, the chief of the Stamford Fire & Rescue Department for the past 11 years, plans to retire this summer. The 64-year-old firefighting veteran and Stamford native is leaving the department after 41 years, but plans on overseeing the department until a replacement is found....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Stamford-fire-chief-plans-to-step-down-after-41-1360454.php

[FFPCogs 863]

So the choices that exist so far are -

1. Peter Brown Plan - which appears to have at least some support, especially with the idea of one "boss" for all fire services. After watching the anti-SFRD/Local 786 inquisition by one particular member of the Board of Representatives, it is safe to say that the Belltown contingency is probably not in that category. One will see where this goes after real numbers come in (for the other proposals) so that a comparison can be made.

2. Peter Cog's Plan - which set up different working schedules for the career staff; making it surely a target for L786. I guess we all just love our children, no matter what they do.

3. Peter Pan Plan, proposed by the mayor; because if you think this is going to fly, you're going to have to believe in fantasy's too.

In any case, it will lead to probably another 60 pages of meaningless dialogue here.

Thanks for the mention G but our "plan" is not under consideration.....yet.

2. Peter Cog's Plan - which set up different working schedules for the career staff; making it surely a target for L786. I guess we all just love our children, no matter what they do.

Point of fact: different schedules yes, but same pay for all plus promotions for some.

Cogs

Edited May 1, 2011 by FFPCogs

[Geppetto 31]

Assistant chief presents alternative fire plan

05/04/2011

KARA O'CONNOR

Stamford Times

...Brown said his "cost neutral plan" would work under one single chain of command, work within current budget restrictions, and shift the current Stamford Fire & Rescue's 52 employees and resources around the city.

"The main goal of this plan is to provide equal fire protection to the entire city," he said. "Every household in the city deserves the same level of fire protection, and we believe that is not happening right now."...

http://www.thestamfordtimes.com/story/504065

[Geppetto 31]

Mayor overstates challenges to unified fire service

Published 06:36 p.m., Wednesday, June 1, 2011

The omission of a single and vital sentence in Mayor Pavia's fire service plan may mislead lawmakers to believe that the legal steps involved in creating a single fire department for the entire city are more difficult than they really are....

...Under the jurisdiction clause quoted in the mayor's plan (pages 8-9) it omits the vital last sentence, which states, "Changes in the Fire Service Districts may be made by ordinance adopted by a two-thirds' vote of the total membership of the Board of Representatives with the advice of the City Fire and Rescue Chief and the respective Chief of the Volunteer Fire Department affected." ...

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/opinion/article/Mayor-overstates-challenges-to-unified-fire-1405426.php

The next question is: Which of Stamford's Volunteer Fire Chief's would advise the BOR's to make the appropriate changes? I think we should make the next wheel round. Stay tuned...