Update on Stamford Merger

[Geppetto 31]

Firefighters' grievance rejected, moving on to state labor board

04/07/2010

By TOM EVANS

Stamford Times

STAMFORD -- There was no resolution on Wednesday morning when the union representing the Stamford's professional firefighters held a hearing with the human resources department to address proposed cutbacks in fire coverage for the city....

..."We have basically let the union go to the state labor board with this (grievance)," McGrath said. "I don't believe this is a city grievance, and that's why I denied it in the first place."

McGrath added that the union also filed a separate labor grievance that he felt was "unfair," and should "be handled by the state."...

http://www.thestamfordtimes.com/story/484598

[Geppetto 31]

Fire task force close to submitting plan

TOM EVANS

Stamford Times

04/14/2010

STAMFORD -- After its meeting last Friday night, the Fire Protection Resolution Task Force is close to submitting its recommended plan to Mayor Michael Pavia....

..."We're moving forward, and I feel things are progressing extremely well," Valentine said Wednesday about the task force's plan for the city's fire service. "Everyone on the task force understands where we are is not where we want to be in the future."

Valentine said he expects the task force to have something in writing by the end of Friday's meeting....

http://www.thestamfordtimes.com/story/484952

[Geppetto 31]

Stamford fire task force readies plan for mayor

04/21/2010

TOM EVANS

Stamford Times

STAMFORD -- In its final scheduled meeting last Friday, the Fire Protection Resolution Task Force prepared a 14-point document to be submitted to Mayor Michael Pavia in the very near future.

Pavia said on Tuesday that he expects to receive the proposal -- a recommended plan for the city's fire service -- "in the next couple of days." All parties involved have said since the inception of the task force that this body is merely advisory in trying to settle disputes among the different branches of city fire service....

http://www.thestamfordtimes.com/story/485316

[nfd2004 750]

Stamford fire task force readies plan for mayor

04/21/2010

TOM EVANS

Stamford Times

http://www.thestamfordtimes.com/story/485316

As I read this, after all the talk etc., it really doesn't seem like much will be changing in Stamford. Unless I'm missing something, that's what I get out of it. I closely followed this as my home town operates a similiar system.

[Geppetto 31]

Fire task force submits plans to mayor

Jeff Morganteen

Stamford Advocate

May 2, 2010

...Following two months of hearings, the special task force led by former Major League Baseball manager and ESPN commentator Bobby Valentine has forwarded its proposed plans -- one from volunteer fire chiefs, the other from professional fire officials -- to City Hall.

The plans consist of two dueling visions of the city's fire service and highlight the differences between the volunteer and career fire services in Stamford, which for years have been at odds over how to best provide fire protection to Stamford residents. Ideally, the mayor would pick the best points from each plan to come up with a course of action agreeable to both the volunteer and professional factions, task force members said....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Fire-task-force-submits-plans-to-mayor-471605.php

[Geppetto 31]

Posted here and "Mansion Fire in North Stamford"

(I was wondering when these two threads would get close enough to each other)

Editorial - Stamford Advocate

Fire problems are threatening safety

Friday, May 14, 2010

...This is not the first time that fire service dysfunction - six autonomous departments; feuding volunteers and professionals -- has been blamed for a house destroyed by flames. But it darn well should be the last....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/default/article/Fire-problems-are-threatening-safety-487213.php

[helicopper 1,050]

Fire task force submits plans to mayor

Jeff Morganteen

Stamford Advocate

May 2, 2010

...Following two months of hearings, the special task force led by former Major League Baseball manager and ESPN commentator Bobby Valentine has forwarded its proposed plans -- one from volunteer fire chiefs, the other from professional fire officials -- to City Hall.

The plans consist of two dueling visions of the city's fire service and highlight the differences between the volunteer and career fire services in Stamford, which for years have been at odds over how to best provide fire protection to Stamford residents. Ideally, the mayor would pick the best points from each plan to come up with a course of action agreeable to both the volunteer and professional factions, task force members said....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Fire-task-force-submits-plans-to-mayor-471605.php

Are any of these proposed plans available for public review?

[Geppetto 31]

A new blog/poll has appeared at the Stamford Advocate website;

Open forum: Are fire costs distributed fairly?

May 19, 2010

Magdalene Perez

Board of Finance Independent Kathleen Murphy, a new board member with a tireless will and lots of questions about the city’s finances, managed to throw a monkey wrench in the process of setting the Mill Rate Tuesday night, delaying the vote until 8 p.m. Wed. so she could get answers about how the city allocates Stamford Fire and Rescue costs between the city’s four tax districts. ...

...Apparently, Murphy’s point is that Stamford Fire and Rescue does help out districts that are technically under the purview of the volunteer departments....

http://blog.stamfordadvocate.com/stamford411/2010/05/19/open-forum-are-fire-costs-distributed-fairly/

[Geppetto 31]

Stamford mayor to detail changes to fire service

Jeff Morganteen, Stamford Advocate

Tuesday, June 1, 2010

STAMFORD -- The mayor will unveil citywide fire service changes Thursday morning, months after he appointed a task force headed by a former Major League Baseball manager to find recommendations on how to improve the city's six independent fire departments....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Stamford-mayor-to-detail-changes-to-fire-service-507969.php

[dragonrescue 28]

May God be with the residents of North Stamford! Read it and weep!!!!!!

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Pavia-unveils-plan-for-Stamford-fire-service-510041.php

[mstrang1 213]

I still do not understand why a volunteer fire department needs 51 paid firefighters? Where will they find these 51 employees? Will there be a list established with a test and CPAT? Will the current Long Ridge employees be folded in? If so, will they retain their seniority? Will they be IAFF Union members? Too many unanswered questions.

[Alpinerunner 61]

This is going to be a great discussion that I will stay out of after this. I must say though that it is probably the best solution given the complex issues presented like the City charter, the union/city CBA, tax districts, etc. Downtown gets to properly staff their district and not always be on minimum manpower, and the northern part gets enough career manpower to be safe. I do believe this was the only solution. Mstrang1, it's called Combination.

[helicopper 1,050]

I still do not understand why a volunteer fire department needs 51 paid firefighters? Where will they find these 51 employees? Will there be a list established with a test and CPAT? Will the current Long Ridge employees be folded in? If so, will they retain their seniority? Will they be IAFF Union members? Too many unanswered questions.

Probably because there aren't enough volunteers to guarantee the desired level of coverage so they are adding career personnel.

I would guess that they will use standard civil service rules to fill the positions and that generally includes a test and physical exam. Are the current Long Ridge employees municipal employees or district employees? Are they civil service? That may factor into their retention.

As for there being unanswered questions, they may be unanswered by you but the City may have already addressed them. If we didn't act because of unanswered questions, we'd never advance on any issue.

[TSull 33]

Probably because there aren't enough volunteers to guarantee the desired level of coverage so they are adding career personnel.

I would guess that they will use standard civil service rules to fill the positions and that generally includes a test and physical exam. Are the current Long Ridge employees municipal employees or district employees? Are they civil service? That may factor into their retention.

As for there being unanswered questions, they may be unanswered by you but the City may have already addressed them. If we didn't act because of unanswered questions, we'd never advance on any issue.

If they need "paid" staff to ensure a desired level of coverage/response, they are no longer a volunteer department of "neighbors helping neighbors". There is one police department in Stamford, there is one public works department in Stamford, there should be one fire department in Stamford.

[mstrang1 213]

Alpine- They had career guys up there before, and SFRD "absorbed" them, except for LRFCo guys, who are "paid" by LRFCo. Apparently they may be absorbed into the 51 guys for SVFD. I know what a combination department is, I just do not see the point of having an entire second chain of command for other paid guys. The system is in place already, with SFRD units stationed in TOR and Springdale, and responding into Belltown on every call and Long Ridge supposedly when needed. Prior to the merger talk starting in 2007 or so, there were career guys who answered to their respective Chiefs. This is basically the same system as before, but with a Chief ruling over Assistant Chiefs(the old Chiefs of each department). The city so far has spent large sums of taxpayer money to basically go back to the way it was. This was not even close to the best solution.

I have memories of Rural Metro in Rye Brook here. That was a win-win situation for everyone when it started, right? We all saw how that turned out.

In response to Chris, I understand that civil service tests will probably be used, but how much will it cost to do this? To test, create a list, hire, train and outfit 51 guys would be quite substantial. This is on top of an Advocate article earlier this week reporting that the 50 jobs eliminated (Hmm...) earlier this year by the Pavia administration have yet to save the city a single cent.

Additionally, the City has in place a Fire Marshall's office, Maintenance Division, Training Division, Contractual Health Care and Pension, payroll, etc, that will all have to be duplicated in the Stamford Volunteer FD. Did the city count in all these addition administrative costs into the mix? The city should be streamlining services in the city, not creating more levels and departments.

Done for now.

[Geppetto 31]

Mayor lays out new fire protection plan

06/03/2010

TOM EVANS

Stamford Times

STAMFORD -- After calling the current fire service hierarchy "a hodge podge," Mayor Michael Pavia has laid out a plan to streamline the way the city's firefighters respond to emergencies....

http://www.thestamfordtimes.com/story/487302

After all those posts, I didn't even get to say the punch-line -

[mstrang1 213]

You got the Stamford Times article up at least! Keep up the good work, Geppetto, just be faster than Dragon next time!

[nfd2004 750]

I agree with "mustang1". I just can NOT figure out what these people did to improve the system. They are back to square one with one change. Another Chief in Charge of the Chiefs. And it doesn't make sense to run an entirely different dept from the City Dept. Not at all.

I'll remember the date. June, 2010 and see how long it takes to prove that this system isn't any different than what it was. We can thank politics again for doing just what they are best at, "NOTHING". I think One Fire Dept under One Chief would have been the answer.

So how long after this Honeymoon do you think it will be before the problems start to show up again.

[mstrang1 213]

NFD- close on my name, but I'll take it. The City actually DID do something. They spent 3 years, 100s of thousands of taxpayers dollars, days in Court, etc. to just go back to the same system, but worse. Hard to believe it could be worse than the old system but, yes it can! Now there will be another level of Chief-dom, and a new tax district and Commissioners as well! All of the previous employees in these districts, except LRFCo, are now part of SFRD and Local 786. So they will be starting from scratch up there.

[FFPCogs 863]

Hmmm this all sounds vaguely familiar to me, like I've seen alot of this somewhere before.

combining/unifiying districts

career/volunteer staffing

one career Chief to oversee the combination department

seperate taxes to pay for it all

With what limited info there is presently available I can say that by and large I support the Mayor's proposal (as much of it is what I've been saying all along).

There is of course is one glaring problem that I see looming and that is the fate of any City FFs currently working "up North" that may be pulled from Springdale and TOR. One possible option might be to augment the Truck and Rescue Companies of SFRD with that personnel so as to increase their overall effectiveness and more importantly to help ensure that no one loses their job

Just one more thing:

Before some of you go off calling for Mayor Pavia's head remember that this whole affair was started by an ill concieved "plan" hatched during the Malloy Administration. Had the time and effort been put into finding a workable solution then it may very well be that another far more cohesive plan between SFRD and the VFDs may have emerged. Unfortunately events followed a different path and much has been said and done that has created an atmosphere where true cooperation between the "sides" is now virtually impossible.

Career or volunteer, union or not, if your unhappy with the Mayor's proposal keep the blame where it belongs...squarely in Malloy's lap. Pavia simply made lemonade out of the lemons he was handed.

Cogs

____________

Peter Cogliano

FF

Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV

Camp Leatherneck

Afghanistan

[Goose 188]

Hmmm this all sounds vaguely familiar to me, like I've seen alot of this somewhere before.

combining/unifiying districts

career/volunteer staffing

one career Chief to oversee the combination department

seperate taxes to pay for it all

With what limited info there is presently available I can say that by and large I support the Mayor's proposal (as much of it is what I've been saying all along).

There is of course is one glaring problem that I see looming and that is the fate of any City FFs currently working "up North" that may be pulled from Springdale and TOR. One possible option might be to augment the Truck and Rescue Companies of SFRD with that personnel so as to increase their overall effectiveness and more importantly to help ensure that no one loses their job

Just one more thing:

Before some of you go off calling for Mayor Pavia's head remember that this whole affair was started by an ill concieved "plan" hatched during the Malloy Administration. Had the time and effort been put into finding a workable solution then it may very well be that another far more cohesive plan between SFRD and the VFDs may have emerged. Unfortunately events followed a different path and much has been said and done that has created an atmosphere where true cooperation between the "sides" is now virtually impossible.

Career or volunteer, union or not, if your unhappy with the Mayor's proposal keep the blame where it belongs...squarely in Malloy's lap. Pavia simply made lemonade out of the lemons he was handed.

Cogs

____________

Peter Cogliano

FF

Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV

Camp Leatherneck

Afghanistan

Maybe we should lay the blame where it really belongs...in the lap of the volunteer dog and pony show that is run outside of downtown stamford. There the ones letting houses burn down due to their own incompetence. Shut them down, let the city take over. Honestly, how many more people need to loose everything they've worked for?

[Geppetto 31]

Major points of Pavia's fire service plan

Stamford Advocate

June 3, 2010

No mention of what happens to the Glenbrook FD.

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Major-points-of-Pavia-s-fire-service-plan-510797.php

[Geppetto 31]

Fire plan: The good, the bad, the questions

Stamford Advocate Editorial

June 4, 2010

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/opinion/article/Fire-plan-The-good-the-bad-the-questions-511989.php

[Pudge3311 5]

Mayors new plan

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Pavia-unveils-plan-for-Stamford-fire-service-510041.php

[sfrd18 360]

It seems like a good plan to a finally resolved problem, however, it seems like they may be a few kinks to work out. Also, why wasn't Glenbrook FD included in the plan? And, since the new volunteer department will utilize the existing volunteer fire apparatus, what will happen to Engine's 7, 8, and 9? Will they go into reserve status? To me, the plan still presents a few unsolved problems and questions. What do you guys think?

[JAD622 40]

Mayors new plan

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Pavia-unveils-plan-for-Stamford-fire-service-510041.php

You call that a "Plan"?

[Bnechis 3,961]

So the plan is for two Fire Departments. What can we learn from history?

In 1776 the founding fathers could not come to agreement on the issue of slavery, so they ignored the issue. Many of them wrote that they knew this issue would never go away and all they were doing was putting it off on a future generation to resolve. It came during the civil war.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand." I believe this government cannot endure, permanently, half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved — I do not expect the house to fall — but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other." - Abraham Lincoln

The "plan" looks more like the easy political solution. Will it work? Will it cost more? It does not matter because it solves the mayors political issue...do something and it will take years to figure out.

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana

There is one other possibility; maybe the mayor knows the voters won’t go for it and then they will roll out plan "B"

[dragonrescue 28]

So the plan is for two Fire Departments. What can we learn from history?

In 1776 the founding fathers could not come to agreement on the issue of slavery, so they ignored the issue. Many of them wrote that they knew this issue would never go away and all they were doing was putting it off on a future generation to resolve. It came during the civil war.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand." I believe this government cannot endure, permanently, half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved — I do not expect the house to fall — but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other." - Abraham Lincoln

The "plan" looks more like the easy political solution. Will it work? Will it cost more? It does not matter because it solves the mayors political issue...do something and it will take years to figure out.

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana

There is one other possibility; maybe the mayor knows the voters won’t go for it and then they will roll out plan "B"

BING BING BING BING! Barry wins the grand prize!

[Geppetto 31]

City lawmakers key to mayor's vision for fire service

Jeff Morganteen

Stamford Advocate

June 5, 2010

STAMFORD -- Much of Mayor Michael Pavia's recommended plan to reform the fire service relies on the Board of Representatives. For the mayor's vision of a unified volunteer fire department covering northern Stamford to come to fruition, elected officials must pass complex and time-consuming legislation....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/City-lawmakers-key-to-mayor-s-vision-for-fire-513108.php

[nfd2004 750]

So the plan is for two Fire Departments. What can we learn from history?

In 1776 the founding fathers could not come to agreement on the issue of slavery, so they ignored the issue. Many of them wrote that they knew this issue would never go away and all they were doing was putting it off on a future generation to resolve. It came during the civil war.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand." I believe this government cannot endure, permanently, half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved — I do not expect the house to fall — but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other." - Abraham Lincoln

The "plan" looks more like the easy political solution. Will it work? Will it cost more? It does not matter because it solves the mayors political issue...do something and it will take years to figure out.

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana

There is one other possibility; maybe the mayor knows the voters won’t go for it and then they will roll out plan "B"

How True that is. Agree, Agree, Agree.