Update on Stamford Merger

[x152 179]

Pete:

I will always believe that the rationale people will eventially prevail and perhaps there is hope for all of us?

PJ: Nice to see you the other night and I always appreciate your input.

I will refrain from further commentary for fear that JC will remind me that we are (once again) heading in a circular motion.

Be well and thanks for sharing your thoughts-

Matt P.

[FFPCogs 863]

Pete:

I will always believe that the rationale people will eventially prevail and perhaps there is hope for all of us?

PJ: Nice to see you the other night and I always appreciate your input.

I will refrain from further commentary for fear that JC will remind me that we are (once again) heading in a circular motion.

Be well and thanks for sharing your thoughts-

Matt P.

Yes it's time for a rest from the not so merry go round. Thanks to all for the input and for the rational expression of opinions. I remain hopeful as well and as always stand ready to work towards a solution.

Stay Safe

Cogs

[jcoppola 52]

I promise to not post any reminders about the definition of insanity. I could not do so in good faith as you all are really pouring your hearts and souls into some of these posts. As for me, I stopped caring a long time ago. I have been sadly reminded numerous times that my opinion does not matter and that I am simply one of those IAFF guys sitting in a chair and sleeping while wasting taxpayer dollars (from a very member of a department that I have tried to help at any cost over many years). I still remain proud to say where I came from even though I have some really ill feelings about some of the members who I thought were more stand-up guys than they proved to be when things got ugly. I cannot do a thing to make it better. Oh well.

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Joe were those members or employees that you refer to?

[Noula 0]

Noula, I appreciate your input. There has not been too much opinion from a member of your Department offered here. Although I have significant disagreement with your points, I do think it is important to try and understand where you are coming from.

I will add a few personal thoughts-

It is quite sad that there is such a negative tone directed at the Glenbrook Fire Department. It appears to me that when their career personnel were laid-off and Glenbrook rejected the City's initial proposal, they were embraced by other volunteer Departments for their decision.

After evaluating their position and accepting an agreement with the City, they (GFD) are now almost as hated as Local 786 and Stamford Fire and Rescue (perhaps more?). What is the honest rationale for this? Am I to believe that there is substance for the bashing OR is this merely black-balling for trying to negotiate a reasonable future for themselves?

Now that Glenbrook has been operating under their new agreement for more than 16 months, what is the downside for them?

Really?

What today, has negatively harmed the Glenbrook Fire Department?

Better yet, since we are in the business of public safety (I believe), what has negatively impacted the residents of the Glenbrook service area?

Please let me know, from my limited vantage point, I have not seen it. Perhaps, there is more to the story that I am not aware of?

I can understand your frustration with the City, I personally negotiated labor contracts with many of the same players for more than 7 years. Contrary to popular belief amongst many in the volunteer community, our relationship (the IAFF) has been far from harmonious or amicable. There was plenty of impasse and certainly; serious disagreement.

But, I also came to learn that at some point, the members and the organization was going to have to find a resolution. To continue into an arbitrated setting or for a prolonged time, was self destructive to the job, the employees, and eventually those who we worked for. Unfortunately when we did settle, we usually did so with some concession from our original position. I came to know of that as bargaining.

I have stated before and I will state it again, I am not a fan of anyone being held hostage in negotiations (I have sat at the same table). However, the parties need to look beyond personal vendetta, fiefdoms, and EGOs and find a workable resolution.

I do not believe that the continued bashing of one agency that has found a way to do so (GFD), is putting yourselves on the path to do that.

My apologies for the long winded response. I will reserve additional comment, awaiting for your (or anyone else's) thoughts.

Thanks again for your opinion.

Matt Palmer

Just to point out, I can only speak for myself. I'm not speaking for any department I'm with or any other members or volunteer firefighters. So, take it with that route.

I realize I sound a bit bitchy, accusing Glenbrook of playing firemen once a week. Truth is, it's not really their fault. Their department and leadership accepted that they can't provide a reliable response without paid staff and took the mayor's deal. That's fine, but since I've been in the volunteer fire service Glenbrook volunteers don't get out the door for much of anything. A few major fires in Stamford they've had truck 31 relocate to headquarters and sit there for a few hours but that's about it. The anger or frustration you hear in people constantly throwing Glenbrook under the bus isn't so much directed at the individual volunteers but at the system, the city and the situation.

I could understand training a volunteer house to be a specialized truck company, an auxiliary unit that you can count on in a time of need. Thing is, Glenbrook hasn't proven to me they can be counted on whatsoever. They don't typically respond to reports of structure fires in their own district, be it 2pm or 2am. If you're going to go through all the trouble to train a "reserve" unit as you will, then you need to know they're going to show up. Truth is, if you need a truck five to ten times a year I'm sure working out a decent mutual aid agreement with Darien would function just as well and save Stamford $160,000.

In addition, I don't think Glenbrook receiving full funding would cause nearly as much aggravation if other departments, that make way more than 5% of their calls and offer 3+ other pieces of apparatus didn't have their funding slashed to inoperable levels.

As far as a compromise between the city and the volunteers, I think it takes two sides to come to the table and work out an agreement. I came in after this mess had already started and I haven't heard first hand nor sat in negotiation sessions with the city, but the impression I get from various sources is that there is no compromise being offered. Either do it this way or we take your funding away. Blackmail is also not a sign of compromise or willingness to negotiate. I would hope that if the city brought a willingness to compromise and negotiate to the table the volunteer departments would listen. So far, that doesn't appear to have been the case.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Noula

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Boy I come to this site from time to time and this is one of the threads I always look at, I hate to say it but I think the window of opportunity for all the Volunteer companies to have gotten together, pool resources, $, buildings, rigs, manpower ect, and keep the response area all Volunteer and in the 5 companies hands has closed.

[FFPCogs 863]

She may be warming up, but the fat lady hasn't begun to sing just yet

[TimesUp 148]

She may be warming up, but the fat lady hasn't begun to sing just yet

But she is still warming up to sing.

[jcoppola 52]

Joe were those members or employees that you refer to?

P-

I think you know well who I am referring to.

All of the posts made are informative and interesting to read. I give a lot of credit to those that keep standing up for what they believe in. I still hope my alma mater can pull through this thing. I am just sorry that I cannot do more to help, but I think I made my mark on that department while I was there.

JVC

[FFPCogs 863]

But she is still warming up to sing.

Luckily she can improvise because there is still time to change the program.

Cogs

[TimesUp 148]

Luckily she can improvise because there is still time to change the program.

Cogs

Looks like she will go ahead with the planned program, the stage is set.

[Geppetto 31]

Long Ridge chief asks for more firefighters

Chief asks for funds to hire eight people

By Jeff Morganteen

Stamford Advocate

04/05/2009

STAMFORD -- The Long Ridge Fire Co., a combination fire department that employs paid drivers and uses volunteers firefighters to cover North Stamford, requested a $2.2 million operating budget for the next fiscal year, $814,337 more than the mayor gave the fire department.

At a budget hearing during a Board of Finance meeting last week, Long Ridge Fire Chief Robert Bennett told finance board members he owed his power company $20,000 and that the department's 10 career firefighters have worked without a raise since 2003. In his budget for the next fiscal year, Mayor Dannel Malloy allocated $1.4 million toward the department....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/localnews/ci_12074455

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

According to Tarzia she might be singing a differet tune!

[FFPCogs 863]

I'll be the first to concede that there's alot of work to be done to improve the "system", but it CAN be done. With some willingness, perseverance and the coming change of "leadership" at 888 a different tune may indeed be heard. Our job, all of us, is to be ready to join the fat lady in singing it.

Stay Safe

Cogs

[Geppetto 31]

Fire & Rescue reports $840K budget shortfall

04/12/2009

By Jeff Morganteen

Staff Writer

STAMFORD -- Stamford Fire & Rescue, the city-run department that covers downtown Stamford, needs about $840,000 to cover a shortfall caused by budget cuts, fire officials said.

In the fall, the city asked the department to cut $850,000 in operating costs, but fire officials said they need most of the money back so they can pay contractually obligated costs such as overtime that allows at least 52 firefighters for each 24-hour shift, the minimum staffing level....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/localnews/ci_12128589

[FFPCogs 863]

OK I'll bite first.

It is fast becoming ever more apparent that this whole situation is an unmitigated disaster. If we are to believe Mr. Morganteen it is also apparent that the rationale for the merger was indeed flawed since overtime has not been reduced, in fact it is growing and if things get worse will increase even more.

I can think of no better example of the validity of the old adage "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

Cogs

[x152 179]

OK I'll bite first.

It is fast becoming ever more apparent that this whole situation is an unmitigated disaster. If we are to believe Mr. Morganteen it is also apparent that the rationale for the merger was indeed flawed since overtime has not been reduced, in fact it is growing and if things get worse will increase even more.

I can think of no better example of the validity of the old adage "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

Cogs

Sorry Pete (I'll take the bait) but the old career system was (in fact) broken and needed to be fixed.

I will speak solely for the career issue, the subsequent volunteer budgeting is another story.

The fact is that career fire personnel (employed by volunteer Fire Departments) operating under the old staffing situation were costing (on average) $20,000 more than the same Fire Fighter working for SFRD. The reason for this is due to the "group overage" staffing situation that is used by SFRD and allowed under contract.

The previous career contract with volunteer Departments ran personnel at only minimum strengths. This assured that whenever a vacancy occurred, overtime had to be paid. In addition, there was no limit on the number of personnel off at any time and less stringent (or non existent in certain locations) follow-up on sick and injured leave. The end-of-the-year salary numbers were clear and they consistently indicated a drastic cost increase between the two systems.

It was also somewhat absurd that the SFRD often would have "overage" of 5 or 6 personnel per shift, yet other Fire Departments in the same City were hiring 5-6 overtime slots. Call it what you want, but find me any respected Fire Manager (career or volunteer) who would consider that to be sound or responsible management.

It is interesting that Mr. Tarzia is now criticizing the same consolidated career system that he previously called for (check the media history). Mr. Tarzia repeatedly was critical of the two-tiered career system and was someone who would balk at the scenario that I had just described in the above paragraph. Now, he appears to change direction and question spending? (interesting).

The year end salary numbers are not classified and available to anyone that should chose to review. When I ran the Union, we would extract this data at year's end and perform our own cost analysis. I find it hard to believe that a BOF member is having trouble obtaining the same info (or perhaps it is just media fodder?).

One last point: Assistant Chief Brown is a smart guy and has been doing his job for well over a decade. I am pretty confident when he gives the City a projected overall salary number, it is accurate. If a City Finance Board then cuts the number hundreds of thousands of dollars below what was stated as needed, you are going to have a shortfall before the budget year is up. I think we are comparing apples to oranges when we try and look at the root of the budget shortfall.

Rather than blame the career merger, perhaps it is the BOF (and the lack of required salary funding) who created the problem to begin with?

Thanks-

Matt P.

Edited April 13, 2009 by x152

[FFPCogs 863]

Ahhh Matt like me your a man of few words... .

It may well have been the case that the "old" system was in need of repair, but as is clearly stated in the article the salaries and overtime costs have increased with the "assimilation" of the career personnel from the VFDs. This is in direct opposition to the rationale for the merger in the first place. The "plan" was supposed to reduce these costs...how I really don't know, but that was the bill of goods City Hall tried to sell us all. It has now become evident that, as expected by some (and yes including me) there will be no real cost savings from the merger. As has often been stated the only difference now is the patch on the shoulder, not the cost of those personnel. The article also seems to say that these costs are a part of the expected 840K shortfall. This is all stated (at least according to the Advocate) by officials from the SFRD, not me or any other volunteer.

The fact remains that what's done is done and can't be undone, so where do we go from here? I guess that is the $64,000 question.

Stay Safe

Cogs

[mstrang1 213]

I think what people are failing to see is that, yes, the SFRD OT costs might have gone up, but the costs associated with salaries and OT in TOR, BFD, and GFD are now 0 dollars. All of the employees that were not in the SFRD budget, now are. With Engines 8 and 9 in service, the minimum staffing of SFRD was raised, manpower increased, and overall combined budget therefore must be increased. Maybe people more in the know than I could fill us in on what TOR, BFD, and GFD salary and OT budgets used to be, but I am willing to bet overall fire department overtime costs are down. That point is never mentioned in any article by the Stamford Advocate, is it?

[FFPCogs 863]

I think what people are failing to see is that, yes, the SFRD OT costs might have gone up, but the costs associated with salaries and OT in TOR, BFD, and GFD are now 0 dollars. All of the employees that were not in the SFRD budget, now are. With Engines 8 and 9 in service, the minimum staffing of SFRD was raised, manpower increased, and overall combined budget therefore must be increased. Maybe people more in the know than I could fill us in on what TOR, BFD, and GFD salary and OT budgets used to be, but I am willing to bet overall fire department overtime costs are down. That point is never mentioned in any article by the Stamford Advocate, is it?

There is another side to this as well. What about the money that used to fund Belltown and TOR's operating budgets? Some of it was supposedly absorbed by SFRD to pay for all this as well since they now respond into those districts in practice as first due. That's about $120,000 for BFD and what another $240,000 for TOR. So even if SFRD takes half where is the other $180,000?

In past years the funds for the salaries for the VFD career personnel was factored into those department's operating budgets. With the career personnel gone niether TOR or Belltown recieved those salary funds in fact that money is still paying those employees as it always has, like I said only the shoulder patch is different. The fact that there has been an increase in salaries and OT just doesn't add up since the former VFD personnel are still paid at their previous salaries, but now they are a part of a larger pool of FFs to cover all the OT. Fact is the math never added up and never will and the statements to the Advocate by the "officials" clearly shows this to be true.

Cogs

[Geppetto 31]

Sides in city fire suit still at loggerheads

By Jeff Morganteen

Stamford Advocate

04/16/2009

STAMFORD -- The trial in the lawsuit between the city and the volunteer Turn of River Fire Department resumes today, nearly two months after a judge urged both parties to reach an out-of-court settlement.

For the past two years, the two parties have struggled for control of firefighting operations in the Turn of River district, the 15-square-mile region surrounding the Merritt Parkway and separating the city's urban downtown from the more rural area of North Stamford. The legal action is one of several within a prolonged dispute between the city and other volunteer fire departments over taxpayer funds and territory....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/localnews/ci_12160098

[FFPCogs 863]

Could it be or is this just a dream? Is it possible that there is finally a crack of light visible at the end of this long disruptive and divisive tunnel? One way or the other let's hope so.

Cogs

[FFPCogs 863]

This is a post from a friend of a friend off another site. Makes alot of sense if you ask me.

When it comes to Politics, Delaware is Number One, No Question. Vice President Joe Biden is fond of telling folks that Delaware is a Three Party State. The three that have to taken Seriously are the Democrats, The Republicans, and the Firefighters. The First State is just that when it comes to Fire Politics, it is rare when a Fire related issue doesn't go the way that the DFA wants. Maryland is Number Two, and, like Avis, Trying Harder. The Md. Legislature has just adjourned it's 2009 Session last week, and a quick look at the scorecard shows that of 12 things that we opposed, 11 were defeated. Of the things that we wanted, we got 14 out of 17. Most importantly, we didn't lose any money to budget cuts.

So how do we do this??

Years ago, the State Fire Marshall got representatives of all of the State's Fire, Rescue, and EMS organizations together in a meeting room and told them that we MUST get together and stay together if we're going to win at Politics. That Day was a turning point, and we've moved forward ever since. Now, we meet every Friday Morning to review any and all pending Legislation and try to reach a consensus on a Fire Service Position. Rural and Urban, Career and Volunteer, Fire and EMS, you name it, All are there and working together. There are currently 13 members of the Maryland Legislature who are Fire/EMS people themselves, 5 career, others Volunteer, and they provide the Leadership on bills that we want passed or defeated. Success comes as a result of hard work, and we enjoy success.....

Like I've been saying new challenges demand new thinking. What was is no more, what will be is up to us to make happen. No more us against us for someone elses success, how about us against them for OUR success. It would be far easier to move the mountain if all were pushing in the same direction.

.........Yeah I know dream on.

Cogs

Edited April 22, 2009 by FFPCogs

[jcoppola 52]

This is a post from a friend of a friend off another site. Makes alot of sense if you ask me.

When it comes to Politics, Delaware is Number One, No Question. Vice President Joe Biden is fond of telling folks that Delaware is a Three Party State. The three that have to taken Seriously are the Democrats, The Republicans, and the Firefighters. The First State is just that when it comes to Fire Politics, it is rare when a Fire related issue doesn't go the way that the DFA wants. Maryland is Number Two, and, like Avis, Trying Harder. The Md. Legislature has just adjourned it's 2009 Session last week, and a quick look at the scorecard shows that of 12 things that we opposed, 11 were defeated. Of the things that we wanted, we got 14 out of 17. Most importantly, we didn't lose any money to budget cuts.

So how do we do this??

Years ago, the State Fire Marshall got representatives of all of the State's Fire, Rescue, and EMS organizations together in a meeting room and told them that we MUST get together and stay together if we're going to win at Politics. That Day was a turning point, and we've moved forward ever since. Now, we meet every Friday Morning to review any and all pending Legislation and try to reach a consensus on a Fire Service Position. Rural and Urban, Career and Volunteer, Fire and EMS, you name it, All are there and working together. There are currently 13 members of the Maryland Legislature who are Fire/EMS people themselves, 5 career, others Volunteer, and they provide the Leadership on bills that we want passed or defeated. Success comes as a result of hard work, and we enjoy success.....

Like I've been saying new challenges demand new thinking. What was is no more, what will be is up to us to make happen. No more us against us for someone elses success, how about us against them for OUR success. It would be far easier to move the mountain if all were pushing in the same direction.

.........Yeah I know dream on.

Cogs

Pete,

All your ideas and thoughts on how to fix the system are nice and would work in an ideal world. Like I have been saying all along, no one at 888 wants to negotiate with the volunteers. As they see it, that window of opportunity has passed and now it is up to the courts to decide the fates of those who did not want to play nice with the mayor.

[FFPCogs 863]

Pete,

All your ideas and thoughts on how to fix the system are nice and would work in an ideal world. Like I have been saying all along, no one at 888 wants to negotiate with the volunteers. As they see it, that window of opportunity has passed and now it is up to the courts to decide the fates of those who did not want to play nice with the mayor.

While I do believe that my ideas (which are simply successful alternatives from elsewhere) have merit I'm not so naive or arrogant as to think that they are the sole "fix"....the world will never be that ideal . As I've said all along it is incumbent upon the volunteers themselves to do a majority of the "work" in "fixing" their part of the system. A few simple yet unconventional (at least here) steps could begin the process of opening a new window of opportunity for renewed negotiation. As we now all know there will be a change in leadership at 888 come November, that is assured. How much negotiation will be possible with that new administration I happen to believe (with good reason) is still to be determined and can be in part influenced by the VFDs through their actions (or lack of them), that they undertake now.

Forever the optimist I still see the possibilities for a solution that benefits all.

Cogs

[FD828 77]

While I do believe that my ideas (which are simply successful alternatives from elsewhere) have merit I'm not so naive or arrogant as to think that they are the sole "fix"....the world will never be that ideal . As I've said all along it is incumbent upon the volunteers themselves to do a majority of the "work" in "fixing" their part of the system. A few simple yet unconventional (at least here) steps could begin the process of opening a new window of opportunity for renewed negotiation. As we now all know there will be a change in leadership at 888 come November, that is assured. How much negotiation will be possible with that new administration I happen to believe (with good reason) is still to be determined and can be in part influenced by the VFDs through their actions (or lack of them), that they undertake now.

Forever the optimist I still see the possibilities for a solution that benefits all.

Cogs

When you are done, I think you should pass the peace pipe around to everyone else!!! If only it could be that easy.

[FFPCogs 863]

When you are done, I think you should pass the peace pipe around to everyone else!!!

The pipe is there for the taking all one has to do is step up and take it.

If only it could be that easy.

Yes it would be nice but unfortunately it won't be today. That being said failure to try guarantees only one thing....failure.

Cogs

[Geppetto 31]

Conclusion nears in lawsuit between city and volunteer fire department

The Advocate Staff

05/10/2009

STAMFORD -- The trial between the city and one of its volunteer fire departments, part of ongoing struggle over taxpayer funds and control of firefighters, wraps up this week after almost two years of legal maneuvers.

The Turn of River Fire Department, a volunteer-run fire service that covers a 15-square-mile area in the northern half of Stamford, first took legal action against the city in 2007, filing an injunction to stop a consolidation plan that would have staffed three volunteer departments with career firefighters from the city-run service, Stamford Fire & Rescue....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/localnews/ci_12339458

[Geppetto 31]

THIS IS A "BLOG" FROM THE STAMFORD ADVOCATE WEBSITE - I'M NOT SURE IF IT WILL MAKE THE ACTUAL HARD COPY PRESS.

Trial by fire — update on lawsuit between city and volunteer fire department

June 5, 2009 at 2:12 pm

by Jeff Morganteen

Stamford Advocate

The trial between the city and the volunteer-run Turn of River Fire Department should conclude today, as both sides are giving their closing arguments in state Superior Court. This comes after two years worth of legal actions and after many more years of bad blood between the volunteer firefighters and the city, which has tried to reorganize the fire service in Stamford for more than a decade. Some of the city’s volunteer fire departments fought those efforts in court. Judge Kevin Tierney will issue a bench decision to resolve this suit. ...

http://blog.stamfordadvocate.com/stamford4...ire-department/

[FFPCogs 863]

To the best of my knowledge there was no decision yesterday, so TRFD and the rest of us of will have to remain in limbo...hopefully for only a few more days. But if in fact Mr. Morganteen is correct, which I hope he is, there is one bright spot....the Judge will make his decision from the bench. If so then a precedent will be set right then and there and we can all get on with what has to be done based on that.

Cogs