Update on Stamford Merger

[jcoppola 52]

Joe,

To respond to your question the Belltown district has in no way been left under protected for a lack of a better term. Belltown district is being covered by SFRD units from all corners....Engine 1, Engine 7, Engine 5, and now Engine 8 or 9 respond into the district on all box alarms and first responder medicals. If a BFD unit responds and clears SFRD units then so be it but rest assured Belltown is being well taken care of. is it the perfect fix..No way....is it working for now...yes it is...BFD gets out to calls as they should and if they need SFRD units to help they let them continue in if they can handle it they clear them up.

As to why not trailer in Newfield Shopping Center I guess that would be the reason right there...the district can be covered in a timely manner from where each station is located at now

All well and good, but my point is that there is a defitite reduction in service because the paid guys are no longer on Dorlen Road. It is simply not the same. I know about response times, but the coverage provided by SFRD in their strategic locations is not the same as having staff in the Belltown Fire House...there is simply no arguing that fact.

[Guest Sqd47]

BFD gets out to calls as they should and if they need SFRD units to help they let them continue in if they can handle it they clear them up.

This has been my experience, and it seems to work.

Personally I am grateful that BFD and SFRD members can work together on a scene. I have always made a point of being friendly and cordial on calls, and that courtesy has been returned. Keeping it professional, and working together is how we will all best serve our communities.

[Guest Sqd47]

All well and good, but my point is that there is a defitite reduction in service because the paid guys are no longer on Dorlen Road. It is simply not the same. I know about response times, but the coverage provided by SFRD in their strategic locations is not the same as having staff in the Belltown Fire House...there is simply no arguing that fact.

But Joe, you cannot argue the fact that even with paid career staff in firefighters in a station, there is not a guarantee that those firefighters will be there when the call comes in. Closest units respond, and I do believe that the response times in Stamford are pretty good, not only for the career department, but for Belltown as well.

[jcoppola 52]

But Joe, you cannot argue the fact that even with paid career staff in firefighters in a station, there is not a guarantee that those firefighters will be there when the call comes in. Closest units respond, and I do believe that the response times in Stamford are pretty good, not only for the career department, but for Belltown as well.

That is splitting hairs...Belltown (or their other volunteer counterparts are not THAT busy where them not being in the station is commonplace. You are right, but your point is the exception not the rule.

My point is PURELY that the service the residents of the BFD district is simply not the same and I am quite suprised there is not more of an outcry from them, but I guess they are accepting it...all the while not taking anything away from the dedication and work the Belltown Volunteers are doing.

[Noula 0]

I think this small note went completely unnoticed as far as I can tell, but I figured this would be the place to post it:

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/ci_9838188

Stamford Fire & Rescue is seeking an additional appropriation of $194,000 to cover a shortfall stemming from delays in bringing all the paid firefighters from Belltown and Glenbrook fire departments under one labor contract.

City officials estimated an overtime projection of $2.2 million in the third quarter, which would have left an overtime deficit of $75,000.

But overtime spending exceeded the projection because the fire budget was based on merging Belltown, Glenbrook and Turn of River fire departments near the beginning of last fiscal year.

Belltown and Glenbrook firefighters didn't become employees of Stamford Fire & Rescue until earlier this year. Turn of River firefighters made the transition last week. Fire Chief Robert McGrath also wants $46,000 for firefighters seeking pay for holidays instead of paid time off as their contract stipulates.

[FFPCogs 863]

I think this small note went completely unnoticed as far as I can tell, but I figured this would be the place to post it:

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/ci_9838188

WOW!!!!!

Look at all the savings from that wonderful consolidation plan. How can it be that another 194,000 is needed when their not even paying anyone in Belltown. It boggles the mind.

Cogs

Edited July 15, 2008 by FFPCogs

[Flyboy69 1]

WOW!!!!!

Look at all the savings from that wonderful consolidation plan. How can it be that another 194,000 is needed when their not even paying anyone in Belltown. It boggles the mind.

Cogs

If you read the article it is because Belltown FD and Glenbrook FD took an extra 6 months and TORFD took an year to complete the merger that it cost more money for last year. You will not be able to tell if this merger saves any money until next year.

Edited July 16, 2008 by Flyboy69

[FFPCogs 863]

If you read the article it is because Belltown FD and Glenbrook FD took an extra 6 months and TORFD took an year to complete the merger that it cost more money for last year. You will not be able to tell if this merger saves any money until next year.

How could it have cost more money? The fact remains that there hasn't been any paid firefighters in Belltown since Jan 1st '08..hence no money has been needed to be spent there since Jan. 1st for payroll, benefits ect. This whole notion of cost savings is just horse s*** to cover the REAL agenda...and please don't be naive enough to think there's not another agenda at work here.

Maybe someone can answer this...where is all the money earmarked to pay those 16 FF and officers (4 shifts x 4 personnel) that would have been assigned to the BFD that have not been working there since Jan. 1st? Residents of Belltown are paying taxes for non existent paid FF coverage at THEIR neighborhood firehouse. Where have those FF been assigned?

Here's a solution: Since those 8 former BFD paid FFs are not needed because there is NO paid personnel in Belltown, maybe they should simply be laid off. That would save a few bucks wouldn't it, with no loss of service to the residents of Belltown. Just a thought.

Cogs

[mstrang1 213]

PCogs-

The Money was needed to cover the costs for the FISCAL year, which runs July-June. SO there was 6 Months of Paid Fire Protection in BFD, GFD, and 1 year of paid fire protection in TORFD.

Residents of Belltown are paying taxes for non existent paid FF coverage at THEIR neighborhood firehouse. Where have those FF been assigned?

Remember this--- The membership of BFD VOTED to not accept the Mayors plan, and go totally volunteer. So the membership of BFD is ultimately responsible for no Career staffing in BFD.

The BFD firefighters have been incorporated into SFRD houses, which covers the entire City, with the exception being LRFCo district. Remember, all Belltown calls get at least 1 SFRD Engine, and up to a full Box alarm of 3 Engines, 1 Truck Company, and 1 Rescue Company, plus the Deputy Chief. This is in addition to whichever BFD units get out of the door. Prior to the merger, BFD fire alarms got partially staffed engines from BFD, GFD, TORFD, and SFRD E7, plus whatever volunteers responded. This is only 10 or 12 career personnel guaranteed on alarms. So actually, BFD coverage has gone UP since this happened.

[Flyboy69 1]

How could it have cost more money? The fact remains that there hasn't been any paid firefighters in Belltown since Jan 1st '08..hence no money has been needed to be spent there since Jan. 1st for payroll, benefits ect. This whole notion of cost savings is just horse s*** to cover the REAL agenda...and please don't be naive enough to think there's not another agenda at work here.

Maybe someone can answer this...where is all the money earmarked to pay those 16 FF and officers (4 shifts x 4 personnel) that would have been assigned to the BFD that have not been working there since Jan. 1st? Residents of Belltown are paying taxes for non existent paid FF coverage at THEIR neighborhood firehouse. Where have those FF been assigned?

Here's a solution: Since those 8 former BFD paid FFs are not needed because there is NO paid personnel in Belltown, maybe they should simply be laid off. That would save a few bucks wouldn't it, with no loss of service to the residents of Belltown. Just a thought.

Cogs

I have said this before, the residents are paying for the full time use of the SFRD to responded on EVERY call in Belltown. While some call this mutual aid, it is not. SFRD is being used to supply FULL TIME coverage and IF Belltown gets a rig out, and yes they have at least one call I know of that No rig got out, (they had chief show up on scene) they can cancel SFRD. But somebody needs to pay for this service, which I may add nobody outside of the Belltown FD and their friends is complaining about.

As for the 16 firefighters that would of been assigned to BFD, they where going to move a machine that was already in service and change the response areas, since BFD said no, the machine stayed where is was.

Maybe Belltown should cancel SFRD response all together and then see what the level of service the residents get?

[Guest BFDT45]

How could it have cost more money? The fact remains that there hasn't been any paid firefighters in Belltown since Jan 1st '08..hence no money has been needed to be spent there since Jan. 1st for payroll, benefits ect. This whole notion of cost savings is just horse s*** to cover the REAL agenda...and please don't be naive enough to think there's not another agenda at work here.

Maybe someone can answer this...where is all the money earmarked to pay those 16 FF and officers (4 shifts x 4 personnel) that would have been assigned to the BFD that have not been working there since Jan. 1st? Residents of Belltown are paying taxes for non existent paid FF coverage at THEIR neighborhood firehouse. Where have those FF been assigned?

Here's a solution: Since those 8 former BFD paid FFs are not needed because there is NO paid personnel in Belltown, maybe they should simply be laid off. That would save a few bucks wouldn't it, with no loss of service to the residents of Belltown. Just a thought.

Cogs

Hey Cogs your thought on simply laying off the 8 former BFD paid ff's is, a low and non deserving blow, I would like to see if the shoe was on the other foot, how would you react....

[x152 179]

How could it have cost more money? The fact remains that there hasn't been any paid firefighters in Belltown since Jan 1st '08..hence no money has been needed to be spent there since Jan. 1st for payroll, benefits ect. This whole notion of cost savings is just horse s*** to cover the REAL agenda...and please don't be naive enough to think there's not another agenda at work here.

Maybe someone can answer this...where is all the money earmarked to pay those 16 FF and officers (4 shifts x 4 personnel) that would have been assigned to the BFD that have not been working there since Jan. 1st? Residents of Belltown are paying taxes for non existent paid FF coverage at THEIR neighborhood firehouse. Where have those FF been assigned?

Here's a solution: Since those 8 former BFD paid FFs are not needed because there is NO paid personnel in Belltown, maybe they should simply be laid off. That would save a few bucks wouldn't it, with no loss of service to the residents of Belltown. Just a thought.

Cogs

Cogs:

Not sure what your experience is with regard to these issues, but I have a "bit" of actual personal experience with these issues. I will attempt to answer some of your questions (or statements).

First - It is not "costing" more. The money was never in the budget to begin with. For those of us, who actually work it this system (career and volunteer), we would remember at the onslaught of this "crisis" was a budgetary shortfall for all career salaries. In particular, overtime accounts (not maintaining what was requested and needed to meet what the upcoming year's forecast would be, yes...we can forecast.....all things being somewhat equal if we spent 3.2 million last year....and there was a 3 percent wage increase....we would need roughly 3.2 x.03 more this year.... barring no catastrophic issues.....pretty simple).

Yet, elected City Boards failed to grant the money that we knew we would need to cover salary expenses. (hmm?) Thus began, the recent struggle to align career fire employees into one unified system.

Why align? Also simple (from a City perspective)....reduce overtime spending in the Belltown, Glenbrook, and Turn of River Stations. How's that you might ask?....

Due to the one-for-one staffing in those stations (under the seperate labor contract)....every vacancy had to be filled with immediate overtime. Conversely, the City Fire Department has some "overage" assigned to each station, thus acting as an "overtime cushion" to prevent automatic overtime.

The end of year salary and overtime figures generally produced consistant results with career salaries in the BFD, GFD, and TRFD averaging between $15,000 to $20,000 more than the same fire fighter working for Stamford Fire and Rescue.

In addition, it was not uncommon for Stamford Fire and Rescue to be 4-5 positions above the contractual minimum strength, yet overtime was being paid throughout the BFD, GFD and TRFD.... Given that there was a two-tiered system (where employees could not be shared..), this type of hiring system was standing out like a giant elephant waiting for targeted by a City Administration. Thus began the road to where we are today.

The article mentions delays in getting the consolidated system in place. Yes, there have been delays. TRFD members did not merge and fully integrate until this past weekend. However, their overtime liabilities continued throughout the spring (often when there are numerous vacancies) and up to July 1, when Engine 8 and Engine 9 opened. Now rather than pay automatic overtime, any career vacancy can be filled from a Citywide staffing system.

I do not think you will find too many SFRD members who would tell you how their overtime hours compare to previous years (hint..it is far less). Obviously, there has been a reduction over previous years. Given the dramatic initial shortfall from what was requested, I am surprised that they were able to keep the window down to below 200K.

And to further answer your statements. Residents of Belltown get a career City unit on every type of response. Fortunately, Belltown volunteers have done a great job of getting apparatus on the air. This usually results in the City rig being cancelled. However, if the situation warrants additional equipment or personnel, it is already well on its way. Belltown has always run a strong group, however there may be times when they cannot get on the air. The system assures that every call is answered, whether by paid or volunteer (Mrs. Smith really does not care...as long as her emergency is answered and handled properly..)

As far as your idea that your former co-workers should lose their jobs.......In case you were not aware (some of them actually did). Fortunately, issues were resolved that allowed for their reinstatement and all of them seen to be doing very well in their new assignments.

I will refrain from further personal opinion as to this suggestion. Those of us who actually work in the system do not need more name calling or petulant remarks, we need to work together, because like it or not....we are stuck with one another...so we might as well learn to live and work with one another...I have confidence that this is possible.

Edited July 16, 2008 by x152

[FFPCogs 863]

PCogs-

The Money was needed to cover the costs for the FISCAL year, which runs July-June. SO there was 6 Months of Paid Fire Protection in BFD, GFD, and 1 year of paid fire protection in TORFD.

Residents of Belltown are paying taxes for non existent paid FF coverage at THEIR neighborhood firehouse. Where have those FF been assigned?

Remember this--- The membership of BFD VOTED to not accept the Mayors plan, and go totally volunteer. So the membership of BFD is ultimately responsible for no Career staffing in BFD.

The BFD firefighters have been incorporated into SFRD houses, which covers the entire City, with the exception being LRFCo district. Remember, all Belltown calls get at least 1 SFRD Engine, and up to a full Box alarm of 3 Engines, 1 Truck Company, and 1 Rescue Company, plus the Deputy Chief. This is in addition to whichever BFD units get out of the door. Prior to the merger, BFD fire alarms got partially staffed engines from BFD, GFD, TORFD, and SFRD E7, plus whatever volunteers responded. This is only 10 or 12 career personnel guaranteed on alarms. So actually, BFD coverage has gone UP since this happened.

Thanks for clearing that up.

It just seems to me that the whole premise of this "consolidation" is flawed. As has been stated, the number of paid personnel responding has gone UP..therefore the cost of providing that coverage has also gone UP. Where is this "savings' going to come from. Overtime savings..please..overtime will be the same as it always has been..people will still get sick, take vacations and God forbid get injured ect. Someone will have to cover those open positions...and get paid overtime to do it.

As for the BFD membership VOTING to reject the "plan", well yes they did as is their right to do and they are responsible for no paid personnel at their station. That doesn't absolve the City from ensuring the proper spending of the residents tax dollars. As it stands the residents of Belltown do not have paid personnel in their firehouse as the consolidation plan calls for..therefore they shouldn't be paying for them. The SFRD decided to provide the outgoing mutual aid..or automatic response at the BFDs request. The SFRD chose to accept this added responsibility..the taxpayers had no say in where their money is going. Technically speaking since there are no paid personnel in Belltown the residents shouldn't be paying for them, whether or not they respond from out of the district.

I reviewed the articles ect relating to this whole mess, and as I understand it the consolidation is supposed to save money and provide paid coverage 24/7 to all of Stamford fire districts save LRFCo. According to Malloy and Co. the refusal of the BFD and TORFD to accept this "plan" resulted in their budgets being slashed 90%. To be fair the lack of salaries ect for paid FFs would justify a considerable reduction in those budgets. But I'm sure all of you can understand that $20,000 or $40,000 for fuel for the rigs is not enough either. There are other expenses involved in running a firehouse, and being able to meet the needs of the community such as training, maintainence of rigs and facilities, ect.

So here's one for you to chew on that is as realistic and productive as cutting the VFDs budget by 90%.

Since by the virtue of the Mayor's own statements this is about money and safety, why doesn't the SFRD staff take a pay and benefit cut of say....Ohh, maybe about 15-20%. This will allow the hiring of additional FFs to cover each district with at least one 4 man engine or truck company each, north of the "border" with no increase in the budget. Win - win as I see it. The SFRD gets more firefighters and the residents are therefore safer, and it won't cost the taxpayers anymore than it does now. If the MAIN factors in all this are public safety and the budget, than there is no logical argument.

Cogs

[FFPCogs 863]

The last few posts I have made have been somewhat tongue in cheek, but they may also be valid arguments to "Mrs Smith". In reality I don't want to see anyone lose their job..or take a pay cut ect. I am just responding in the vain of alot of those who respond here with simplistic approaches to this whole mess. Any view can be made to look valid given enough hot air.

Any offense was not intended...although it's not suprising that I ruffled a few feathers.

A long term solution has to be found taking into account all sides of these issues. The current state of affairs cant last inderfinitely.

Cogs

[Noula 0]

I reviewed the articles ect relating to this whole mess, and as I understand it the consolidation is supposed to save money and provide paid coverage 24/7 to all of Stamford fire districts save LRFCo. According to Malloy and Co. the refusal of the BFD and TORFD to accept this "plan" resulted in their budgets being slashed 90%. To be fair the lack of salaries ect for paid FFs would justify a considerable reduction in those budgets. But I'm sure all of you can understand that $20,000 or $40,000 for fuel for the rigs is not enough either. There are other expenses involved in running a firehouse, and being able to meet the needs of the community such as training, maintainence of rigs and facilities, ect.

So here's one for you to chew on that is as realistic and productive as cutting the VFDs budget by 90%.

Since by the virtue of the Mayor's own statements this is about money and safety, why doesn't the SFRD staff take a pay and benefit cut of say....Ohh, maybe about 15-20%. This will allow the hiring of additional FFs to cover each district with at least one 4 man engine or truck company each, north of the "border" with no increase in the budget. Win - win as I see it. The SFRD gets more firefighters and the residents are therefore safer, and it won't cost the taxpayers anymore than it does now. If the MAIN factors in all this are public safety and the budget, than there is no logical argument.

Cogs

Just to clarify, the 90% cut was to the operating budget. The operating budget pays for things like fuel for the rigs, heat for the firehouse, electricity, gear, equipment, etc. The operating budget had and still has absolutely nothing to do with paid staff.

[Guest Sqd47]

Here's a solution: Since those 8 former BFD paid FFs are not needed because there is NO paid personnel in Belltown, maybe they should simply be laid off. That would save a few bucks wouldn't it, with no loss of service to the residents of Belltown. Just a thought.

Cogs

Cogs, whether you meant it as tongue in cheek or not, this statement is inflammatory and I believe you owe those men an apology.

Remember this--- The membership of BFD VOTED to not accept the Mayors plan, and go totally volunteer. So the membership of BFD is ultimately responsible for no Career staffing in BFD.

mstrang1, the plan was incomplete, with many details that needed to be discussed and worked out before it could be agreed upon. Anyone who would agree to an incomplete proposal with al the details "to be worked out later" is a fool. Let's say I come to you and say I will build you a house. I tell you it will cost $500k. Just sign right here on the dotted line. You ask me how many bedrooms it will have, and I say we will work that out. Just go ahead and sign. You ask me what kind of siding it will have, and I say we haven't decided that yet, but just go ahead and sign this agreement. Get my drift?

I have said this before, the residents are paying for the full time use of the SFRD to responded on EVERY call in Belltown. While some call this mutual aid, it is not. SFRD is being used to supply FULL TIME coverage and IF Belltown gets a rig out, and yes they have at least one call I know of that No rig got out, (they had chief show up on scene) they can cancel SFRD. But somebody needs to pay for this service, which I may add nobody outside of the Belltown FD and their friends is complaining about.

Actually, Jimmy, it *is* mutual aid. The charter says the Belltown Fire Department has the responsibility for the safety of the people and property within the confines of the district. The Chief is the Authority Having Jurisdiction. Period. Amen. For a long time now automatic mutual aid has been the way calls have been handled in all 5 Volunteer districts in Stamford. As much as a few people would like to think they can take over the district by eminent domain or supreme decree or any other means, it's not allowed by charter.

As for the 16 firefighters that would of been assigned to BFD, they where going to move a machine that was already in service and change the response areas, since BFD said no, the machine stayed where is was.

What machine was that?

Maybe Belltown should cancel SFRD response all together and then see what the level of service the residents get?

I don't think I need to comment on what an ill-concieved idea this is.

And to further answer your statements. Residents of Belltown get a career City unit on every type of response. Fortunately, Belltown volunteers have done a great job of getting apparatus on the air. This usually results in the City rig being cancelled. However, if the situation warrants additional equipment or personnel, it is already well on its way. Belltown has always run a strong group, however there may be times when they cannot get on the air. The system assures that every call is answered, whether by paid or volunteer (Mrs. Smith really does not care...as long as her emergency is answered and handled properly..)

I think this can work in the long run. Thanks for recognizing and acknowledging the Belltown volunteers, I know there are many there who simply want to do a good job, be good firefighters, help their neighbors, and want to be able to work with members of the surrounding departments in a cordial and professional manner.

As far as your idea that your former co-workers should lose their jobs.......In case you were not aware (some of them actually did). Fortunately, issues were resolved that allowed for their reinstatement and all of them seen to be doing very well in their new assignments.

Best wishes to all of them and may they have long, safe, and rewarding careers with the SFRD.

I will refrain from further personal opinion as to this suggestion. Those of us who actually work in the system do not need more name calling or petulant remarks, we need to work together, because like it or not....we are stuck with one another...so we might as well learn to live and work with one another...I have confidence that this is possible.

I have the same confidence.

[gamewell45 258]

Thanks for clearing that up.

So here's one for you to chew on that is as realistic and productive as cutting the VFDs budget by 90%.

Since by the virtue of the Mayor's own statements this is about money and safety, why doesn't the SFRD staff take a pay and benefit cut of say....Ohh, maybe about 15-20%. This will allow the hiring of additional FFs to cover each district with at least one 4 man engine or truck company each, north of the "border" with no increase in the budget. Win - win as I see it. The SFRD gets more firefighters and the residents are therefore safer, and it won't cost the taxpayers anymore than it does now. If the MAIN factors in all this are public safety and the budget, than there is no logical argument.

Cogs

Cogs, the career guys are covered by a collective bargaining agreement that was agreed to by the city and union. Penalizing the career guys financially over this dispute is not only unfair, it violates the spirit of the collective bargaining process. Even attempting to broach this subject with the union could cause considerable damage to the city's credibility next time contract talks come around. There would be no trust between the parties and the long-term ramifications would be damaging for both sides in this dispute.

I'm a enthusiasic supporter of the volunteer system, but not at the expense of career staff already employed. When they were hired, there was a committment from both sides both legally and morally & as taxpayers there is an obligation to honor that.

I'm sure with time and patience, this issue will be resolved between the city and volunteers and everyone will move past this. Just my opinion as an non-resident of your state.

[FFPCogs 863]

To the BFD 8

My sincere apologies for a bad example. I DO NOT want you to lose your job.

And if nothing else at least now you all agree on something..I'll happily take the beating to get you all on the same side.

Cogs

[M139 0]

To the BFD 8

My sincere apologies for a bad example. I DO NOT want you to lose your job.

And if nothing else at least now you all agree on something..I'll happily take the beating to get you all on the same side.

Cogs

The former BFD 9

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Cogs,

I have openly debated you on this subject several times with the utmost respect and considered your post to be well thought out and in many cases valid. That being said, your latest post, suggesting that men be laid off has crossed the line in my opinion. While you are entitled to your opinion, I personally think it Stinks. I know you say it was said in a toungue & cheek manner, but talking about a brothers livelyhood is out of line.

Paul D.

[FFPCogs 863]

Cogs,

I have openly debated you on this subject several times with the utmost respect and considered your post to be well thought out and in many cases valid. That being said, your latest post, suggesting that men be laid off has crossed the line in my opinion. While you are entitled to your opinion, I personally think it Stinks. I know you say it was said in a toungue & cheek manner, but talking about a brothers livelyhood is out of line.

Paul D.

I do again apologize to anyone I may have offended by expressing lay offs as an alternative. I should have tried to make my point in another less inflammatory manner.

I would like to address one post here which asked how I would feel if I were in the position of having my career threatened by a lay off.

I can tell you how I felt....angry, confused and powerless !! I have lost a union position due to budgetary woes, and another well paying career due to the political maneuvers of others. So I know exactly how it feels to walk in those shoes.

You know what, I truly don't want to see anyone have go through what I did. Acting as the Devil's advocate, my point was that there are alternatives based on the statements of the Administration...as unpleasant and in all honesty as unrealistic as they may be.

From my understanding of what I read here, many people blame the BFD for this problem. I disagree with that assesment. It is the City adminstration in general and Malloy in particular that are the root cause by using what amounts to unlawful tactics to force an outcome...it's called coercion.

Just to be clear...coercion:

1.

the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance.

2.

force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force.

Now I understand that calling for people to lose their jobs is "crossing the line", and I realize that by using that example in the manner in which I did, it could be construed as a call for such action. It was NOT. As erroneous as it turned out, my intent was to show that slashing the budget of the VFDs has, in a sense, the same effect as cutting jobs or pay. And before you all jump up with your flaming torches and pitchforks, just try this on for size. Causing a person to lose their job or take a pay cut due to budgetary woes, hurts the individual in the same way forcing a department to operate underfunded effects that department. Each would have to make do with less or worse...nothing. Now this may seem an inappropriate analogy...but when boiled down it's not. According to Malloy and his cronies it's about saving money...and there is more than one way to accomplish that, like it or not.

For now the City has the VFDs as scapegoats..but who will suffer from the next round of budget revisions? Will the volunteers again face the loss of funding once SFRD personnel are stationed in all the VFD houses and the budget surpasses projections? For that matter why fund the VFDs at all once we have the SFRD in those houses? I think anyone can see how these questions and their possible and plausible outcome would cause concern for the volunteer FFs there. Or maybe...just maybe it will be the Local's turn to lose out and take a hit.

As firefighters regardless of whether we are paid or volunteer, we should ALL be standing with the VFDs to regain their due funding because..."there but for the grace of God go I" . It may very well be that in the future the paid FFs of Stamford will face the same tactics by Malloy and Co. contract or not, in dealing with their budget. We all know how much they respect standing legal documents. When they want to slash the SFRD budget I think most of you would readily accept any support offered by Stamford's volunteer FFs and I'm sure you would have it...return the favor in advance!

Just one more point here in regards to Gamewell45s post.

Again I DO NOT want to see nor do I advocate the loss of jobs by anyone..my statements to that effect were a misrepresentation of my intent...it was a bad use of words.

In your post you speak of the City's credibility and mutual trust. Well in this case the City has broken that trust by NOT negotiating with the VFDs. Demanding compliance and attempting to force it through funding cuts are not the acts of trustworthy officials. This fact I hope is not lost on all who post here.

Cogs

Edited July 18, 2008 by FFPCogs

[jayhalsey 6]

SNIP: Very long well written informative post.

Thank you x152 for a very well written, informative post. I am not from Stamford, But I have been following this issue very closely, and reading this thread, and it is very refreshing to see a straightforward, informative post, explaining exactly the mechanics of what is going on. I hope more people involved in this issue, on both sides, share your view of trying to work together to get through this. because, like it or not, both sides seem to be stuck with each other for the time being, and it would seem much eaiser for both groups if they worked together, rather than try to undermine each other.

[Geppetto 31]

Judge to hear Stamford, Turn of River fire dispute

By Wynne Parry, Staff Writer

Stamford Advocate: 07/21/2008

STAMFORD - After more than year, the struggle for control over fire protection in Turn of River's district is scheduled for trial before a judge on Wednesday.

Stamford Superior Court Judge Kevin Tierney is scheduled to hear a lawsuit filed by the volunteer-run Turn of River Fire Department in June 2007 to stop a city consolidation plan. ...

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/localnews/ci_9944957

Edited August 5, 2008 by Chris192

[Geppetto 31]

Board to weigh $194K in fire OT

By Wynne Parry

Stamford Advocate 07/31/08

STAMFORD - A Board of Representatives committee wants more information before it decides whether to grant a Stamford Fire & Rescue request for $194,000 to cover personnel expenses that resulted partly because a plan to consolidate paid firefighters with volunteers was delayed....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/localnews/ci_10051190

[FFPCogs 863]

Thanks for the update

Cogs

[Geppetto 31]

Reps OK $146K for fire personnel costs

By Wynne Parry - Staff Writer

Stamford Advocate 08/05/08

STAMFORD - The Board of Representatives on Monday night approved $145,606 to cover unanticipated personnel costs in the city's fire departments.

The approval came after an original request was reduced by about $48,500 and the revelation that only one of the volunteer-run departments originally blamed for the expenses contributed to them. ...

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/localnews/ci_10100002

[Guest Sqd47]

"Our estimate was based on the information that we had at the time," said Peter Privitera, OPM's director, explaining the discrepancy. Payroll averaged much higher in the weeks before his office had to submit a request to the elected boards. After the request was in, payroll costs dropped, reducing the overage, he said.

The committee also altered the description of the items, attributing costs instead to the labor contract. Originally, the requests stated costs were incurred due a delay in the consolidation plan, which the city announced in May 2007.

Did this guy used to work for Enron?

[gamewell45 258]

Just one more point here in regards to Gamewell45s post.

Again I DO NOT want to see nor do I advocate the loss of jobs by anyone..my statements to that effect were a misrepresentation of my intent...it was a bad use of words.

In your post you speak of the City's credibility and mutual trust. Well in this case the City has broken that trust by NOT negotiating with the VFDs. Demanding compliance and attempting to force it through funding cuts are not the acts of trustworthy officials. This fact I hope is not lost on all who post here.

Cogs

Cogs, I do agree that the city has a serious breach of credibility with the volunteer forces and this is an issue that may take years to heal. My point in regards to the career forces was--as i'm sure you'll agree--the city has a legal obligation to bargain with the union over the terms and conditions of employment of the career personnel and as in any collective bargaining process, credibility and trust are an important factor is achieving a viable agreement. While the relationship between the volunteer forces and the city are strained to say the least, nothing positive could be achieved by abrogating or modifying the existing agreement between the union & city. I concur and am glad that you did point out the lack of trust between the city officials and VFD's and rightfully so, it should be noted.

[Geppetto 31]

Fire dispute on hold

By Wynne Parry Staff Writer

Stamford Advocate - 08/07/2008

STAMFORD - The trial to determine the fate of fire protection in the Turn of River district has been delayed until October. In the meantime, both the city and the volunteer-run department have said they are open to more negotiations.

Since July 1, Turn of River has operated as an all-volunteer department on a radically reduced budget. Meanwhile, Stamford Fire & Rescue has moved two engines into the district. ...

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/localnews/ci_10122675

[Guest sfrdff]

Just an update for those who are wondering, TORFD lost its' case against the city regarding that the city was in contempt by violating the charter. They are going back to court in October regarding their funding, but I think TORFD is or has realized that they do not have a leg to stand on.