Update on Stamford Merger

[FD828 77]

But the fact does remain that if the volunteers wanted, they could have a fully staffed engine responding out of their respective firehouses immediately when the tones drop.(and receive funding from the city) They wouldn't have to worry about coverage, shifts, holidays, missing family time, missing work, or the safety of their residents. They could still respond to calls as they do now. Their Chief would still be in command at all incidents unless he relinquishes command to the SFRD Chief. They could still get tons of training. They could form a great relationship with the paid guys so that when they have to work together it is a smooth operation. But nooo! We don't want to move forward. We rather do it on our own and possibly put the safety of the firefighters and public at risk. Just because other towns can cover with 100% volunteers and have been doing it.... how long do you wait before doing something, anything to ensure 24/7 coverage? Because it isn't happening now. I am not saying to get rid of ANY volunteers. I am saying that they need to get with the times and think about why they are there in the first place. But like others posting, just my $0.02.

[Guest Sqd47]

If you look at the Belltown membership on their web page, 11 active members just started in 2008. Probies. The math gets harder and harder.

This wasn't that long ago

Perhaps you should worry a little more about your department than anyone elses.

To Tom Tisano:

Thanks for a good post, I know you are a man of your word, I have fought fire shoulder to shoulder with you.

Pat Kilbride

[FFPCogs 863]

I am NOT saying that this is what anyone there HAS to do..or even that volunteer shifts is what they should do. I am simply providing information as objectively as I can regarding an alternative based on the situation as it now stands...which is BFD and TOR ARE 100% volunteer like it or not and whether right or wrong they are determined to stay that way for now.

Just to clarify, my intention here is not to beat a dead horse with this but when someone posts here either questioning the idea or trying to discredit it for whatever reason I will address those posts. Also although there have been no posts here supporting this alternative, there is interest in it by some concerned parties on both sides which has been expressed to me via other channels. I have decided to respect these individuals anonymity (whatever their reason) because that is their wish.

Like many others posting here I too have a history with the fire service in Stamford, and enjoy the friendship and respect of those who know me there both paid and volunteer.

Cogs

Edited July 5, 2008 by FFPCogs

[Guest Sqd47]

Your math is fine on paper, but I can tell you first hand that last summer when there were layoffs and Belltown was using volunteers to fill the vacant shifts they had a real hard time.

First of all, this math thing is getting kind of silly. Breaking it down into work load per member will never be a good way of looking at this, because there is always going to be some people that do more than average, and some people that do less than average.

A more meaningful descriptive statistic is to use a mean number of responders paired with a standard deviation analysis. This will give you a better barometer of the consistency of responder volumes.

And, last time I checked, it is now *this* summer, not *last* summer. Let's not live in the past, let's look to the future... any reasonable person will tell you past history is no predictor of future performance. Circumstances have changed quite a bit. BFD has a lot of volunteers who have made the commitment to public safety, and they are doing it. The members like being there, and they smile even!

They had volunteers coming and going every few hours, they were calling volunteers begging them to come down to the station, in fact the Chief and Assistant Chief had to fill shifts as a driver.

Volunteers, including the Chief, and Assistant Chief made the commitment to fill vacant shifts not only in the interest of public safety, but more importantly because they felt it vitally important that the career firefighter on duty had another firefighter with him, and I know many made their best effort to ensure this. Coming and going every few hours???? SO WHAT !!! This is the reality of volunteer staffing. The members knew they had to step up to the plate and they did.

So I do not have any idea how they are going to staff a 4 person crews 24/7 365. It may work in other areas of the country, but I do not see it happening here. I hope I'm wrong, but I do not think so.

This does not surprise me, you have always struck me as a pessimistic, "glass-is-half-empty" kind of guy.

[FFPCogs 863]

Pat,

Not to debate or offend you, but the math involved here is actually of vital importance. It is absolutely necessary to do the math to divide any shifts equally among the members to incorporate a system similar to the ones I have cited.

In those departments down there members are assigned shifts, just as their career counterparts are. Actually the only difference between the career and volunteers if the fact that the volunteers have decided to serve for no pay. This allows them to offer the SAME level of service while saving their taxpayers some money.

Each volunteer is required to fill a minimum number of shifts based on the available pool of qualified FFs. Another fact which I may not have stated clearly enough is that in these departments only those ON shift respond. There is no POV or from home response. This last point could of course be modified to meet the specific needs of the BFD et al.

These shifts are somewhat flexible, within reason, in terms of hours or days on. But to ensure equal "work" and guaranteed coverage all members must meet the minimum. There is also room for those who wish to do more.

Each member upon inquiring about joining is made aware that this requirement is mandatory...it is the first thing they are told actually. Even with this seemingly non-volunteer approach the ranks are full and it appears that they will remain so for the forseeable future.

I realize this may be unpalatable to some, maybe all of you there, but new solutions demand new thinking.

Take care

and as always

Stay Safe

Cogs

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Sqd 47 & Cogs

Can we use the Squad experiment some 10-12 years ago as a barometer on how guys step up to the plate and cover shifts on a consistent basis or is that too far in the past. To my recollection there were alot more active and qualified members then, and you were drawing from 5 depts, thats 1 man from each dept per shift for all the mathmaticians on this post. This lasted about 2 weeks before it folded due to lack of manpower, so whats different now. Less of a pool to draw from, yet this seems viable? Not to be a pessimist but I just dont see it. This is not Va. or Md. its Fairfield County CT. and its very expensive to live here. How do you expect a person to devote 1-2 days a week to a volunteer service and still afford to live there. A more realistic approach would be to combine the remaining volunteer members and augment the SFRD with needed resources, such as a volunteer truck or rescue company that responds to all boxes North of the border.

[Guest Sqd47]

Game on ????? This isn't a game, PJ.

This forum is a good tool to encourage informed, adult debate. I have tried pretty hard in all my postings to keep it like this without making it personal.

My response time from Maine? Don't be asinine.

Let me explain something to you, and anyone else who makes a stupid comment like that. From the very first day I sat in the Chief's office at Belltown, I explained to the service board that I wanted to be a volunteer firefighter, and that my job would take me away from Stamford for periods at a time when I would not be able to respond. The leadership of the department understood and accepted that, from that day forward until the present day. I made the promise that when my job brought me to Stamford, I would be as committed and dedicated to the department as I possibly could.

My record there speaks for itself. I continue to live up to my promise and my commitment to the department, and to the residents of the Belltown Fire District.

Now. Let's get back on track and make this thread about the issues.

I will be back in Stamford in late October, and will resume my duties as a volunteer then. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you come by and see me at Dorlen Road.

[jcoppola 52]

You guys need to tone it down a bit...please keep this thread "to the facts". Opinions are good too, as long as they don't start getting personal. I think the last thing you all need is a confrontation between a Stamford volunteer and a career person from SFD. THAT OUGHT TO LOOK GOOD IN THE PAPER...

I stopped posting to this thread because I think the whole thing is futile, but I have to keep watching this painful arguement to assure it stops heading in the direction it is fast going.

Again, keep it a reasonable debate.

Thanks all,

Joe C.

[FFPCogs 863]

OK let's see if I can answer the questions asked in a realistic factual manner.

I am aware that the "flying squad" concept was a dismal failure there 10-12 years back and therein is an answer to one aspect of your concerns. 10 to 12 years have past since then and the situation has changed considerably. There are no longer paid drivers, FFs or whatever term is used to describe them in Belltown or at the TORFD stations. No fallback for the volunteers to count on..which HAS influenced their commitment level for the better as of now. Hopefully this change will also allow them the ability to think outside established norms.

FYI the areas around Washington D.C. in MD. and VA where some U.S. Senators, Congressmen and Federal Gov't. executives live is also a very expensive area in which to live...the cost of living is on par with what it is in Fairfield county. Again even when faced with these expenses along with the simple demands of life they DO manage to volunteer and meet the requirements of 24/7 coverage. This is a fact pure and simple. They do it by dedicating themselves to the commitment they have made to provide 24/7 coverage no matter what it takes. I would expect that the same level of dedication to that commitment would be necessary to those involved in Stamford.

And to offer a different viewpoint, maybe the volunteers should combine and it is the SFRD that should augment them with resources when needed. Just a thought.

To all:

Look I am not here to debate the virtues of what I have proposed although I will, when questioned, offer what insight and information I have in support of this alternative. It strikes me though that no one posting here is attempting to address the situation as it now stands. Not you, not me, not anyone for the most part posting here is going to change the FACT that the BFD and TOR are 100% volunteer. Wanting paid personnel in those houses, demanding paid personnel in those houses, or citing what may be a legitimate concerns to force paid personnel into those houses isn't going to make it happen. It is out of our hands to force any outcome.

Therefore, I would think that for firefighters who have been around for a period of time, and who consistently maintain that public safety is the Prime concern, addressing the situation as it currently IS would be far more productive. Whether or not you agree with the decision those departments have made to become 100% volunteer organizations, they are...that is an established fact. Paid firefighters are NOT going to be in those houses in the next hour, or day or most likely the next month...period. Knowing this and as painful as it may be, accepting this FACT, what positive solution can any of you firefighters out there, whatever your affilliation, offer to aid these departments in protecting their residents effectively?

If nothing else I have at least offered up an alternative grounded in the reality of the situation as it is...not how I want it to be. The easiest thing to do is to outline all the negatives, no matter how valid. How about a little positive rhetoric, and realistic alternatives based on the situation as it IS to achieve what is of most importance...PUBLIC SAFETY.

Cogs

[FFPCogs 863]

How about a little positive rhetoric, and realistic alternatives based on the situation as it IS to achieve what is of most importance...PUBLIC SAFETY.

Cogs

I'll get the ball rolling.

Here's a little of that positive rhetoric;

I commend the volunteers of Belltown and TOR for taking on the added responsibility created by the removal of the paid personnel from their firehouses. I applaud their dedication and commitment to serving their neighbors. I know they have earned the respect and admiration of my family (mother in BFD and sister,br.in law and kids in TOR) living in those districts. So on their behalf

Thank You

Cogs

Edited July 7, 2008 by FFPCogs

[eckyphats 0]

Cogs-

as a former Prince Georges County Firefighter I know first hand what they have down there will never work in Stamford, its like comparing apples to oranges

Half the volunteer firefighter down there do not even live in the state of Maryland!

If the TOR and BFD want to stay all volunteer, they need to accept memberships from outside of Stamford and set up duty shifts, TOR is a very busy dept and can not be staffed with home responders most of the time, there needs to be a dedicated crew in house. And I am sorry to say it cause I am a volunteer firefighter also, the day your dept can not staff apparatus and regularly cover calls, its time to have paid personnel

Edited July 8, 2008 by DOC22

[FFPCogs 863]

Cogs-

as a former Prince Georges County Firefighter I know first hand what they have down there will never work in Stamford, its like comparing apples to oranges

Half the volunteer firefighter down there do not even live in the state of Maryland!

If the TOR and BFD want to stay all volunteer, they need to accept memberships from outside of Stamford and set up duty shifts, TOR is a very busy dept and can not be staffed with home responders most of the time, there needs to be a dedicated crew in house. And I am sorry to say it cause I am a volunteer firefighter also, the day you're dept can not staff apparatus and regularly cover calls, its time to have paid personel

Eckyphats,

Thanks for the facts and your experience relating to my proposal.

I have always maintained that in order for the VFDs there to guarantee 24/7 coverage a shift system would be needed. That is what I have been saying here all along. I have also repeatedly stated that a dramatic change in operations would be necessary to meet the challenge of 24/7 coverage. If allowing new members from outside the established area in, incorporating live-ins, allowing qualified out of town volunteers to "work" shifts or any combination thereof is what is needed, then that's what's needed.

I have also stated and repeatedly stressed here that if 24/7 coverage cannot be guaranteed then paid personnel are the ONLY alternative. As of now the BFD and TORFD apparently feel they can meet the needs of the community. I sincerely hope that contingencies are being worked out to prepare for a time when this may not be so. Looking into and outlining a shift system or some other alternative now, utilizing all the resources available, would alleviate a crisis due to lack of manpower when or if it were to arise.

I have posted what I believe to be an alternative to paid personnel in these houses, but I am willing and able to do more than simply type words on a page. That being the case let me state here and now, for the record that I would offer my services up to 2 shifts per week now and for the forseeable future, to any department there to help ensure 24/7 coverage. I have always firmly believed that if one is going to comment or make suggestions then they should be willing to back them up..I am.

Cogs

[Geppetto 31]

You would have to add quite an incentive package to attract volunteers from outside of Stamford. Most volunteers are attracted, in some fashion, with a need to protect their home community. To protect someone else's, for free, needs a big carrot. And Stamford does not have the same demographics as Kentland. If it did, you might attract some firefighters, but not homebuyers in the $800,000+ (a quite low estimate!) range.

Statistically, actual fires are not occurring. That is the fact region-wide. That is not to say emergency responses are down. EMS, MVA's, automatic alarms are still occurring and as a whole, calls for service are increasing. That means you still need people round-the-clock 24/7.

So what would attract volunteers? Tax credits? College incentive? LOSAP? Civil Service points? At a bare minimum, if Stamford's neighbors already have a working system in place, similar items need to be included to attract them to Stamford. Why go to Stamford, if Greenwich has a better deal? And if the Stamford volunteers can't agree on what they want, historically - from air packs to large diameter hose, this battle may be already lost.

There is power in numbers. The discussion to combine the volunteers into 1 firefighting force, is still fought against by many of the "Big 5" leaders. Unless the volunteers learn to speak with 1 voice, they are facilitating their own demise.

[FFPCogs 863]

Geppetto,

I couldn't have said it any better.

And thank you for actually approaching this with a serious look at what would be needed, and not simply bashing any alternative viewpoint. Maybe others will finally follow suit.

Cogs

[Jason762 2]

As of now the BFD and TORFD apparently feel they can meet the needs of the community.

I tend to disagree with your statement based on the President of TOR's quote and previous quotes from BFD's Chief:

Stamford Advocate 7/02/08:"Turn of River volunteers cannot guarantee enough qualified firefighters will respond in the long term, said Aaron Lee, president of the fire company. Volunteers this week took time off from work so at least three will be in each firehouse during the holiday weekend, he said.

"This not something we are going to be able to keep up at all. Everybody is making major sacrifices," Lee said. "

Stamford Advocate 8/23/07:"Volunteer departments have complained of dwindling membership for years. With the paid staff now decreasing, the safety of firefighters and residents is at risk, volunteer chiefs said.

Ten Belltown volunteers have been covering the three open shifts, Didelot said.

In his decision, Karazin said the departments have used volunteers to increase coverage "with substantial success." But Didelot said volunteers cannot continue to cover the open shifts.

"So far we've been able to work around it, but it's not a permanent solution," Didelot said."

The only way I can see the vol. service surviving long term, and this has been said already, is combining into one dept. Membership rolls are down, runs are up, daytime coverage is tough. The SFRD needs to be in these districts to properly serve the citizens in these areas with a prompt response and properly staffed rig. Fires may not occur in these districs very often but when they do, the residents in the northern districts should have to same protection as the residents downtown. The only way to ensure this is by having fully staffed career companies. Whenever a fire has occured in these areas, a full (or close to) downtown box assignment has responded. Currently with the way things are set up, at least you are getting two staffed enignes (in addition to the volunteer engines) responding from a much closer location in TOR. Perhaps the vol. FD's should look at other towns that have similar setups (i.e. Danbury) where the vol. FD's provide support services for the career FD's (lighting, SCBA filling, even water supply in non-hydranted districts). This would also stop the wasteful spending on apparatus that are not needed such as unstaffed ladder trucks, rescue trucks, and a multitude of engines.

As for the idea of using live-ins and/or college students to staff the firehouse I just don't feel it will work in Stamford. Many of the reasons have already been stated, but in addition, a lot of the draw to places like Kentland is the number of runs and work that they see. The work is simply not in TOR, Belltown, or pretty much any other area here. AFA's and medical calls will only keep most peoples interest for so long.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Jason762

[FFPCogs 863]

QUOTE(FFPCogs @ Jul 8 2008, 01:20 AM) As of now the BFD and TORFD apparently feel they can meet the needs of the community.

In regards to this statement, I may not have been clear in it's meaning. I too have read the quotes from the VFD Chiefs, but those Chiefs do put the safety and security of the residents of their districts first as hard as that may be for some to believe. With what coverage they have managed to secure, and based on the current level of volunteer participation, it seems that they feel the requirements to the community are being met...FOR NOW. Not necessarily for six weeks, six months or six years from now.

Believe this or not as well, but I fully understand and for the most part agree with all the facts and views expressed that find fault with the idea of volunteer shift coverage 24/7. What I do not agree with is the view that says dont' even try. Yes this isn't Kentland with it's call volume, or anywhere else I realize that. But this is an issue involving volunteers providing 24/7 coverage to their residents. The fact is there are departments out there besides Kentland that do provide that level of service, it IS being done. Personally, I find it somewhat premature, and honestly close minded to write off this or any alternative without it being fully explored by the parties involved, and possibily even attempted. No one can say for certain that this won't work, just as neither I nor anyone can say it will with 100% certainty.

Regarding the volunteers role in Stamford's fire service. My understanding and my experience is that the volunteers in Stamford have always been capable of much more than simply offering support services, and still are. The very same argument that says that Stamford isn't Kentland or MD/VA or wherever is just as valid in terms of the role of Stamford's volunteers now. Stamford isn't Danbury or Hamden ect. If we are going to look elsewhere for "role models" for the Stamford volunteers then we should look at them all objectively, not just the ones that support our personal views. To be fair this goes for me as well.

Cogs

Edited July 9, 2008 by FFPCogs

[Guest Sqd47]

Jason, you have quoted a statement made by Belltown Chief John Didelot almost a year ago, when the situation was a bit different than it is in the present day.

I cannot speak for TOR, but I can tell you that when the career firefighters were removed from Belltown by Mayor Malloy, the volunteers made a renewed commitment to put in an extra effort to protect life and property in the Belltown Fire District. Based on my personal observation, the commitment is being honored. Existing members have increased their responses. New members have been working very hard training to recieve their state certifications as firefighters and MRT's (Medical Response Technicians).

The only way I can see the vol. service surviving long term, and this has been said already, is combining into one dept. Membership rolls are down, runs are up, daytime coverage is tough. The SFRD needs to be in these districts to properly serve the citizens in these areas with a prompt response and properly staffed rig.

Perhaps it may come to this, and all the volunteers in Stamford may consolidate into one department. Then again, maybe not.

As far as runs being up, it is true that there is an increased call volume, but I often wonder if an appropriate response is being sent to AFA's and the like... which really is a whole new topic of discussion.

At Belltown Fire Department, it was decided to reduce the outgoing mutual aid to responding to reports of smoke or fire; and on medical responses responding to calls for help using the same protocol as SFRD. This has cut the call volume in half.

The SFRD needs to be in these districts to properly serve the citizens in these areas with a prompt response and properly staffed rig. Fires may not occur in these districs very often but when they do, the residents in the northern districts should have to same protection as the residents downtown. The only way to ensure this is by having fully staffed career companies. Whenever a fire has occured in these areas, a full (or close to) downtown box assignment has responded. Currently with the way things are set up, at least you are getting two staffed enignes (in addition to the volunteer engines) responding from a much closer location in TOR.

The citizens in these areas were being properly served with a prompt response, and a rig staffed not very differently than what they are seeing today, before this whole debacle started. This whole mess was precipitated by the Public Safety budget being cut by $500k in June 2007. A new "plan" was proposed that was going to save money. Honestly, I am not an accountant, but any grade schooler can see there is no savings here. Several comments have been made in the topix.net section of the Stamford Advocate online site, pointing out that TOR had asked for more manpower for years in a row in order to cut overtime.

Perhaps the vol. FD's should look at other towns that have similar setups (i.e. Danbury) where the vol. FD's provide support services for the career FD's (lighting, SCBA filling, even water supply in non-hydranted districts). This would also stop the wasteful spending on apparatus that are not needed such as unstaffed ladder trucks, rescue trucks, and a multitude of engines.

What you are proposing is treating volunteers, who have worked hard and trained hard to become good firefighters, like second class citizens.

Additionally, "wasteful" and "not needed" are descriptions that represent your perception of the situation. It very well may be that a station like Belltown, with 2 engines, a tower ladder, and a rescue, represents a tremendous bang for the buck when staffed by volunteers. Any or all of those apparatus may be responding based on the nature of the call for help.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Sqd47

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Sqd 47,

If the comittment has always been to serving the citizens how does reducing your responses in half do that? This move was done following the removal of paid personel. IMO this is a reduction of service by 50% and an admission that the call volume cannot be handled by a strictly volunteer force. As far as the comment on apparatus I think we can agree that there is a tremendous amount of overkill & needless redundancy throughout the system especially now with the new system in place. I think at last count the city of Stamford had a total of 25 engines, 9 ladders, & 5 rescue rigs, it like a small bourough I guess.

[Guest Sqd47]

Paul, if 3 or 4 personnel is considered a fully staffed unit, then the removal of the 2 to 3 paid personnel represents a 50% to 75% reduction in manning.

The volunteers' first and foremost concern is the citizens of the Belltown Fire District. The automatic mutual aid arrangement that was in existence with paid personnel staffing the station meant that BFD was responding more than 1000 times a year, with much of those responses out of district. Reducing the responses to reports of smoke or fire is not unreasonable, in my personal opinion. Changing the protocol of which medical calls BFD responds to is not unreasonable; using the same protocol as the SFRD.

As far as apparatus goes, I disagree with your assessment that there is overkill and needless redundancy. Albeit not staffed on a 24 hour basis 7 days a week, the rigs are ready to go on pretty short notice. They, and the volunteers on them, represent a ready reserve that can augment city resources in times of need. I know that often BFD members are alerted via text messaging when there is something going on in Stamford that may need their response, and many times the volunteers will man the station in case of need. If they aren't called for it is no big loss, but if they are needed they are there and ready to go.

Take care now,

Pat

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Sqd 47

As far as the apparatus goes I quess the city of New York should put an extra engine & truck in the house with us just in case we need them. When we are out if a second incident comes in another company handles it. Belltowns response area is approximately 1 square mile yet they have 2 engines, a tower ladder and a heavy rescue. This is just like the situation in Long Island, there is no regionalization. I think apparatus should be spaced out geographically based on need. Do you really need 5 rescue rigs in Stamford. How many are in the city of New York? Is it because these rigs are needed or is it because you all want what everyone else has. I think combining manpower and providing specific resources, that are needed, is the answer. For example, Belltown and Springdale could combine manpower and man the Tower Ladder to serve as the ladder company for engines 6, 7, 8, & 41. In my opinion better use of manning and resources.

U Take Care Now

Paul.

[Future Fireman 4]

Sqd 47

As far as the apparatus goes I quess the city of New York should put an extra engine & truck in the house with us just in case we need them. When we are out if a second incident comes in another company handles it. Belltowns response area is approximately 1 square mile yet they have 2 engines, a tower ladder and a heavy rescue. This is just like the situation in Long Island, there is no regionalization. I think apparatus should be spaced out geographically based on need. Do you really need 5 rescue rigs in Stamford. How many are in the city of New York? Is it because these rigs are needed or is it because you all want what everyone else has. I think combining manpower and providing specific resources, that are needed, is the answer. For example, Belltown and Springdale could combine manpower and man the Tower Ladder to serve as the ladder company for engines 6, 7, 8, & 41. In my opinion better use of manning and resources.

U Take Care Now

Paul.

Oh boy, now we're getting into more ego crap with regionalization. I'm gonna need some more popcorn!

Mike

Edited July 11, 2008 by Future Fireman

[Geppetto 31]

Red Tape? What does that mean?

History lesson time - My slant on how things got to be the way they are - In the older states (New England, NY, NJ etc.), with their home rule mentality, each community developed their own personalities, as well as good old self-reliance. As each area grew, they each needed to have their own equipment and autonomy.

Rating services eventually came into existance (such as ISO) to identify how well a community's defenses were to combat the community's risk. These actually, helped spur on this overlap of equipment, as each community did not receive credit for their neighbor's equipment - only their own. And in those days - automatic mutual aid was not as commonplace, due to the fact that there were more volunteers (and less bean-counters to cause career cut-backs) to ride that equipment. Additionally, most areas were not as well-developed. But, what did happen was every fire "unit" worked to have a "department". Although the engine is the basic building block of a firefighting force, most would agree that a "department", usually meant 2 engines and a truck company. Look for an ancient study by Kimball circa 1976 about "How to Judge your Fire department" for some insight. (One of a long line of similar texts dating as far back as fire itself!) Many units chose engine/quad or quint combinations due to limited space. Unfortunately, ISO does not give full credit for them - so others chose separate engine and ladder pieces.

People living in their own small worlds - not knowing or caring what was happening a mile or two away.

Today - we have well-stocked fire stations - most loaded with that departmental minimum, as well as a "rescue vehicle". (God forbid, your neighbor's "rescue" comes to your community.) They're well stocked with everything but the manpower. They have yet to build a fire vehicle with an auto-pilot.

If you have the manpower - you do have it all. It's manpower that provides the service, manpower that puts out the fires, manpower that makes the "department". The equipment is worthless without the TRAINED people to use it. All it does is take up space.

Should departments have reserves/spares available? Of course they should. Fire apparatus break down all the time. But ask youself, does a community need, on average, 2:1 engines for what actually gets on the road? For every one that responds, one sitting idle? That seems like a real expensive way to do business.

$.02

[FFPCogs 863]

Geppetto,

Yet again you have hit the nail squarely on the head. Whatever your leanings on this issue, to me you have put forth the facts and the inescapable truth.

The volunteers of Stamford are going to have to change their ways to effectively protect their residents and to simply survive. What direction that change will take is still an open question.

Well that's my $.02 worth.

Cogs

[jcoppola 52]

I have a tounge-in-cheek question/comment and it is rhetorical and probably has no answer, but how come SFRD did not move a trailer into the Newfield Green Shopping Center or some other strategically located area and staff yet another company, say E-10 to cover Belltown. I lived in Belltown for a lot of years and still have a family there, and I'd like Dannell Malloy's best answer to that question. Not taking anything away from Belltown members, but why is there such a push for extra engines and manpower north of Vine Road and the Merritt Pkwy. on the Long Ridge Road side, yet nothing in the Belltown district.

Now I know this may seem to be a cut at the volunteers, but it is really not. About a year ago, I had AT LEAST 2 career staff in the Belltown firehouse, GAURANTEED! Now, according to the powers that be, there is simply no gaurantee whatsoever. I realize and appreciate the commitment that is being made by the BFD members, but reality is reality and we all know the deal, there are times when there is nobody in the station. The way I see it is the residents of Belltown are the ones really suffering from all this mess.

I also realize the proximity of E6, E7 and E8, but it the perception of it by the public is not good. I have family and interests in the Belltown fire district and to be honest, I think it is unfair that services to this area have been cut. The "elder" may not think so, but I think like a modern, progressive firefighter who has been around both services for a long time and I definitely don't like being on the receiving end of a "turf war". No members of BFD should take this as an attack of any sort. You, and the tax-paying public are being mistreated by a bully regime (City Hall), and it is pitting career vs. volunteer in a bad way no matter how you look at it.

As far as using the volunteer corps to perform support functions, that is a bit insulting to any volunteer...if I were a volunteer firefighter, I would not want to sit outside a fire and fill bottles or provide lighting to others performing the job I, too, was trained to do...I would seek membership in a department that fought fires once in a while and did some real good for the public. Maybe there are folks who would want to do this, but not me...not with the pride that was instilled in me from BFD veterans going back 23 years ago...

My 2 cents. I have been reading and processing this stuff and it is simply mind-boggling. Yet I press on.

JVC

[FFPCogs 863]

Joe,

In answer to your question about lack of paid rigs and staff in Belltown.

You already know that answer.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Alot more dough North of Vine.

Cogs

Not that I want to see it but the old CD property or Town Yard on Haig would also fill the bill..and they are already City property.

Edited July 11, 2008 by FFPCogs

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Joe

Didnt the membership of Belltown vote to have the paid personnel removed and go strictly volly?

[Guest Sqd47]

Joe

Didnt the membership of Belltown vote to have the paid personnel removed and go strictly volly?

I wasn't there, so cannot speak verbatim, but it was my understanding was that a vote was taken on whether or not to accept the mayor's "plan" for consolidation; the consequences of not accepting the "plan" would be that the career firefighters would be removed.

[FFPCogs 863]

The real villians in all this are Malloy and Co. They choose this path. The system was working, maybe it needed a bit of tweaking, but it worked. All the BS spewed about cost saving and "better" protection was just that...BS ! We all know it.

So now you have a system verging on a breakdown and an administration fueling the fire. Lose the agendas on all sides. It's time to get it fixed and fixed under the conditions that NOW exist.

For the BFD and all the volunteers in Stamford, it's time to step up and develope a plan that will guarantee 24 / 7 coverage in the very near future..like it or not......IT CAN BE DONE ! Consolidate, confederate, or do whatever the hell it is you have to do to make that happen. If you can't then open the doors. Get over what was and start dealing with what is.

As for the SFRD, well you ain't going to be in those houses any time soon...so get over it. Your union isn't getting any bigger today. Time for you all to wrap your heads around that fact and start working towards living with it. Undermining the volunteers by word or deed ultimately only puts the residents in jeopardy. The same goes for you...Get over what was and start dealing with what is.

The pissing match here, in the newspaper, and anywhere else it shows it's ugly head isn't solving or changing anything. Day by day it's just making things worse for everyone..especially the residents your all there to serve...remember them.

You should all direct your ire where it belongs...at Malloy and his lackeys at 888 Washington Blvd. All of you need to wake up, get your heads out of your asses and realize the fact that their the ones screwing all of you. You are allowing yourselves to be led around by the nose by people that don't care about you or the community one way or the other. Stop serving the agendas of the few, and get yourselves together paid and volunteer, and start acting like the fire service professionals you all claim to be.

In Stamford you are all fortunate, you have the knowledge, talent and resources to build a fire service second to none. Don't blow it !!

There's my $.02 for today.

Cogs

To the volunteers in Stamford....and especially the guys in Belltown, although it may not seem so by the above statements I am and will remain one of your staunchest supporters. I have absolutely no doubt that my family there is safe and secure under your protection now. But I, as should everyone, must look beyond today to a year from now or 5 years from now. By all accounts the current state of affairs cannot last indefinitely...for your survival and my family's well being all alternatives must be explored.

Cogs

Edited July 12, 2008 by FFPCogs

[Guest REDDDOGG]

I have a tounge-in-cheek question/comment and it is rhetorical and probably has no answer, but how come SFRD did not move a trailer into the Newfield Green Shopping Center or some other strategically located area and staff yet another company, say E-10 to cover Belltown. I lived in Belltown for a lot of years and still have a family there, and I'd like Dannell Malloy's best answer to that question. Not taking anything away from Belltown members, but why is there such a push for extra engines and manpower north of Vine Road and the Merritt Pkwy. on the Long Ridge Road side, yet nothing in the Belltown district.

Now I know this may seem to be a cut at the volunteers, but it is really not. About a year ago, I had AT LEAST 2 career staff in the Belltown firehouse, GAURANTEED! Now, according to the powers that be, there is simply no gaurantee whatsoever. I realize and appreciate the commitment that is being made by the BFD members, but reality is reality and we all know the deal, there are times when there is nobody in the station. The way I see it is the residents of Belltown are the ones really suffering from all this mess.

I also realize the proximity of E6, E7 and E8, but it the perception of it by the public is not good. I have family and interests in the Belltown fire district and to be honest, I think it is unfair that services to this area have been cut. The "elder" may not think so, but I think like a modern, progressive firefighter who has been around both services for a long time and I definitely don't like being on the receiving end of a "turf war". No members of BFD should take this as an attack of any sort. You, and the tax-paying public are being mistreated by a bully regime (City Hall), and it is pitting career vs. volunteer in a bad way no matter how you look at it.

As far as using the volunteer corps to perform support functions, that is a bit insulting to any volunteer...if I were a volunteer firefighter, I would not want to sit outside a fire and fill bottles or provide lighting to others performing the job I, too, was trained to do...I would seek membership in a department that fought fires once in a while and did some real good for the public. Maybe there are folks who would want to do this, but not me...not with the pride that was instilled in me from BFD veterans going back 23 years ago...

My 2 cents. I have been reading and processing this stuff and it is simply mind-boggling. Yet I press on.

JVC

Joe,

To respond to your question the Belltown district has in no way been left under protected for a lack of a better term. Belltown district is being covered by SFRD units from all corners....Engine 1, Engine 7, Engine 5, and now Engine 8 or 9 respond into the district on all box alarms and first responder medicals. If a BFD unit responds and clears SFRD units then so be it but rest assured Belltown is being well taken care of. is it the perfect fix..No way....is it working for now...yes it is...BFD gets out to calls as they should and if they need SFRD units to help they let them continue in if they can handle it they clear them up.

As to why not trailer in Newfield Shopping Center I guess that would be the reason right there...the district can be covered in a timely manner from where each station is located at now

[jcoppola 52]

Joe

Didnt the membership of Belltown vote to have the paid personnel removed and go strictly volly?

Going strictly volunteer was the consequence of not accepting the deal presented by the Mayor. Perhaps most of the members knew that at the time of the "vote".