Was: Pelham FD Staffing? Now: Regionalization/Staffing and More

[efd184 59]

How many men does Pelham have on staff during a tour?

Just wondering what the Career vs. Vol. ratio was at this last fire?

By the amount of mutual aid that was sent and the number of men those departments send on each rig it almost seems like maybe the vol. manpower was not there?

[Remember585 815]

They were there, not sure of the exact # but I did see a handful of guys and a few cars with blue lights parked on 1st Ave.

[27east 19]

I'm about 99.8% sure that there are 3 career FF's on duty per tour.

[PHIL78 129]

Kinda hard if not impossible to make an initial attack on a fire like that with those staffing levels,and not being sure of the vollies showing up. ANSWER M/A ,M/A and more M/A. SAD.

[x635 4,066]

Simple answer.

If you're a career department, and don't have AT LEAST, 4 fully qualified firefighters per Engine Company, and 4 fully qualified firefighters per Truck Company, then you're not properly staffed.

[27east 19]

How many career guys does Pelham Manor have on a tour?

[jloftus 28]

Staffing, the number one issue for every department, we show up with maybe 18 on first assingment,

2-mpo's outside

1-aide

2-3 fast when its used

2-drivers , trucks

7-total outside maybe 1-2 more

leaves= 11 inside of which 4-are officers leaves 7 firefighters to do what we do.

Interior Ops;

search and rescue

venting

finding seat of fire

checking for extension

suppression

overhaul

Dont care what math you use this math doesnt work, as for the Pelham crews,

god bless them, maybe 2 inside at first. good luck

[Guest FFNick]

Simple answer.

If you're a career department, and don't have AT LEAST, 4 fully qualified firefighters per Engine Company, and 4 fully qualified firefighters per Truck Company, then you're not properly staffed.

So are you saying a total of 6 personnel per apparatus, or are you including the chauffer/MPO and the officer in your count of 4, leaving 2 firefighters?

[JFLYNN 681]

Simple answer.

If you're a career department, and don't have AT LEAST, 4 fully qualified firefighters per Engine Company, and 4 fully qualified firefighters per Truck Company, then you're not properly staffed.

Pelham is not properly staffed and never will be as long as other career departments keep bailing them out because everyone is so anxious to go and play at a fire. Career departments should not have mutual aid agreements with combination or volunteer departments for many reasons. There are volunteer and combination departments in close proximity to Pelham. If these systems work, why is it necessary to call career departments for what is basically a "bread and butter" fire? Chief Officers and union officials of career departments should absolutely not allow their members to work side by side with volunteer firefighters unless a system is put in place to ensure that these volunteer firefighters are adequately trained, background checked, and medically qualified.

This is not a knock on volunteer firefighters- many of you are qualified, capable, and well intentioned. However, the minimum standards for career vs.volunteer are completely different. The job of firefighter is difficult and dangerous enough without having to be put in a position where you must potentially work side by side with underqualified people who may put your safety in jeopardy.

In Westchester County, there is a vacuum of leadership unfortunately- many Chiefs and union leaders (not all) have lost sight of what their primary responsibilities are : the safety and well being of their own members, and providing adequate fire and emergency response to the residents of the community which pays their salary. They are afraid to speak up and / or make a decision about this issue because they fear being criticized or making enemies, which I am sure I will be for posting this...oh well...

[x635 4,066]

So are you saying a total of 6 personnel per apparatus, or are you including the chauffer/MPO and the officer in your count of 4, leaving 2 firefighters?

As long as they are all capable of interior structural firefighting, then it doesn't matter the mix. But I am figuring an Apparatus Operator/Firefighter, Officer, and 2 Firefighters.

JFLYNN, very well said! I couldn't agree more!

[Bnechis 3,961]

Pelham is not properly staffed and never will be as long as other career departments keep bailing them out because everyone is so anxious to go and play at a fire.

What do you consider "proper staffing"? Lets consider ISO, PFD would need an additional 10 ff's per shift or another 50 FF's if we consider NFPA 1710 thats 13 more per shift or 65 additional personnel. If no dept ever responds to Pelham again, they will never be able to increase staffing to the level need (the taxbase is ot there), infact the numbers needed is more than the total personnel for the village (PD, FD, DPW, etc.)

Chief Officers and union officials of career departments should absolutely not allow their members to work side by side with volunteer firefighters unless a system is put in place to ensure that these volunteer firefighters are adequately trained, background checked, and medically qualified.

1) The state should not allow any ff's to participate (MA or in there ow dist.) if they are not adequately trained, checked & qualified. Should career depts do MA with other career depts that dont meet these standards?

2) What say does a union official have to "not allow their members to work" if the chief sends them?

[JFLYNN 681]

What do you consider "proper staffing"? Lets consider ISO, PFD would need an additional 10 ff's per shift or another 50 FF's if we consider NFPA 1710 thats 13 more per shift or 65 additional personnel. If no dept ever responds to Pelham again, they will never be able to increase staffing to the level need (the taxbase is ot there), infact the numbers needed is more than the total personnel for the village (PD, FD, DPW, etc.)

1) The state should not allow any ff's to participate (MA or in there ow dist.) if they are not adequately trained, checked & qualified. Should career depts do MA with other career depts that dont meet these standards?

2) What say does a union official have to "not allow their members to work" if the chief sends them?

First of all, I am aware of who you are and I think you are doing a good job from what I hear on the regionalization study (or whatever it's called), and I support that. Also, I have respect for the New Rochelle FD and know and like many of your members. HOWEVER, I couldn't disagree more with the way New Rochelle FD is propping up undermanned Fire Departments in Westchester, particularly Mt. Vernon. This hurts our brother Firefighters and is not fair to the citizens of New Rochelle either. Unfortunately, I think that you are not going to be able to accomplish this regionalized department that you are looking for with the mindset you have now. Pelham certainly can find the $ to have enough garbagemen, teachers, etc., etc. 3 career Firefighters per tour?!? Well, I guess the Pelham village administration will tell you that is adequate because they are supplemented by volunteers...if this is true, why did you guys have to go thius fire...this was no conflagaration...I have been told that there are career departments in Westchester that will send their ONLY ladder company out of town on mutual aid! Come on...are you kidding me?

How do you explain to the taxpayers of your district or municipality that they are paying for fire protection in another district or municipality which chooses to not adequately fund fire protection, and that place can't provide those same resources to you in return. Would New Rochelle call Pelham or another combo dept. for mutual aid and allow whoever shows up to crawl down a hallway with your members? Maybe you are going to tell me you would...if so, shame on you!

Next, the minimum standards for ALL career departments in Westchester far exceed the minimum standards of ANY volunteer department. I'm very surprised that you don't know that.

Last, the union always has a say and thank God for that. Yes, if the Chief gives an order, it must be followed, but a good union will pay attention and take whatever steps, pilitically or otherwise, are necessary, to protect its members.

Frankly, I think the buff factor is at work here...a little smoke and fire and you can't keep people away...well keep doing it and don't complain and whine how come Yonkers is the only department with adequate resources.

And for the record, our official position in Yonkers (administration and union) is that we are currently severely UNDERMANNED.

[x635 4,066]

What do you consider "proper staffing"? Lets consider ISO, PFD would need an additional 10 ff's per shift or another 50 FF's if we consider NFPA 1710 thats 13 more per shift or 65 additional personnel. If no dept ever responds to Pelham again, they will never be able to increase staffing to the level need (the taxbase is ot there), infact the numbers needed is more than the total personnel for the village (PD, FD, DPW, etc.)

BUT, if departments learned to work together, and share resources, then the proper number CAN be there. There's a lot of fat that can be cut from a lot of departments budgets, especially if they learn to work together. This is one of the wealthiest communities in the nation, let's not forget that...and only a few miles south, in the Bronx, residents of the poorest neighborhoods are getting better fire protection.

[lad12derff 283]

BUT, if departments learned to work together, and share resources, then the proper number CAN be there. There's a lot of fat that can be cut from a lot of departments budgets, especially if they learn to work together. This is one of the wealthiest communities in the nation, let's not forget that...and only a few miles south, in the Bronx, residents of the poorest neighborhoods are getting better fire protection.

Now you can't say the Bronx is receiving better fire protection with the poorest neighborhoods without adding Manhattan's tax base to the mix. FDNY consists of 5 counties in this state. I am not really sure what fat can be cut from my cities budget to get more manning although I know alot of federal monies that come our way are spent on what the feds tell us to spend it on. As far as I know we can't just use that money for whatever we wish. I am happy to say New Rochelle is coming along with the proper manning levels and we still have alot of work to get to where we need to be. As for mutual aid it should be addressed at the higher levels with the unions having a say. I am sure the taxpayers(who don't think they need us now)would be even more unhappy if they saw what a sham the mutual aid system is in.

[Bnechis 3,961]

First of all, I am aware of who you are and I think you are doing a good job from what I hear on the regionalization study (or whatever it's called), and I support that. Also, I have respect for the New Rochelle FD and know and like many of your members.

Thank you I apreciate that. Regionalization or consolidation will hopefully solve many of these issues. Thank you for the FD comment as well.

HOWEVER, I couldn't disagree more with the way New Rochelle FD is propping up undermanned Fire Departments in Westchester, particularly Mt. Vernon. This hurts our brother Firefighters and is not fair to the citizens of New Rochelle either.

While I am not happy that almost every dept is understaffed and at times feel we are taken advantage of, I also understand that NRFD is not large enough to be self sufficient. While we can put the proper amount of equipment and personnel on most fires almost every working fire we have requires MA to cover our stations. This is after we do a call back. Last year MVFD covered our city a cpl of times each month. So the citizens of NR did get something in return.

Unfortunately, I think that you are not going to be able to accomplish this regionalized department that you are looking for with the mindset you have now.

Sorry you feel this way. The real issue is does regionalization solve the problem? I believe it does and all of the chiefs have stated it does. It will mean every rig will have 3ff's and an officer. It means meeting NFPA 1710. It means having the 1st due engine within 4minutes and 22 men in 8.

Pelham certainly can find the $ to have enough garbagemen, teachers, etc., etc. 3 career Firefighters per tour?!? Well, I guess the Pelham village administration will tell you that is adequate because they are supplemented by volunteers...if this is true, why did you guys have to go thius fire...this was no conflagaration...

Enough garbagemen...about the same manning as the FD. Teachers..they have none (only Yonkers has them, the rest of us have seperate tax districts that have no limits to spend on that). My point was not that PFD has enough FF's or that they can get by with what they have because of the volunteers, my point was that if no MA of anykind and no vol. were in PFD, the village taxbase could not support a full career FD. Last year I calculated that just replacing PFD's ladder was equal to 4.5% property tax increase for the village. Based on my previous manning numbers to add 10 ff's per shift would cost them about $6 million or a property tax increase of 45%. There is no way any taxpayer would support this.

I have been told that there are career departments in Westchester that will send their ONLY ladder company out of town on mutual aid! Come on...are you kidding me?

Thats because they want someone to come and help them when they need it. A few years back one of the VAC's in the northern part of the county said they would not do MA, because they could not aford to send the amb out of town. So all the neighbors said fine dont, but also dont ever call for help, you have to give to get.

How do you explain to the taxpayers of your district or municipality that they are paying for fire protection in another district or municipality which chooses to not adequately fund fire protection, and that place can't provide those same resources to you in return.

Most people have no idea what they are paying for or recieving. People believe if they see a fire house with a bunch of trucks they are protected, but trucks dont put out fire. We are trying to address this issue. One of the big problems is none of the districts have the ability to properly fund all sorts of programs. I worked EMS in Yonkers in the early 1980's and I remember how bad the YFD's funding was. It would be a whole lot easier if the rest of us got even a portion of the state revinue sharing that we are suppose to recieve.

Would New Rochelle call Pelham or another combo dept. for mutual aid and allow whoever shows up to crawl down a hallway with your members? Maybe you are going to tell me you would...if so, shame on you!

We tend to cover our own fires but we have called most of the combo depts to help. What options do we have? And no we do not allow "anyone". PFD has been training with us and only sends us career ff's who do.

Next, the minimum standards for ALL career departments in Westchester far exceed the minimum standards of ANY volunteer department. I'm very surprised that you don't know that.

That was not what I was refering to. "Trained, checked and certified" well 2out of 3 isnt bad, but there are issues here.

whine how come Yonkers is the only department with adequate resources. And for the record, our official position in Yonkers (administration and union) is that we are currently severely UNDERMANNED.

The city of Yonkers has adequate resources because it recieves more state $$$ per capita than all the rest of us. If NR recieved the same per capita we would get an additional $19 million. If only 20% of that came to the FD we would have proper manning. YFD has positioned it self thru a lot of hard work to make itself a 1st rate dept., but without the $$$ coming in you would be in a lot worst shape.

Its a nice position to be in. but it was not always that way.

[Bnechis 3,961]

let's not forget that...and only a few miles south, in the Bronx, residents of the poorest neighborhoods are getting better fire protection.

NYC spends less per capita to have 5-6 man rigs than most depts spend on 3 or 4.

Its the overall size of the tax base that counts. They actually spend less per capita than most of the combo depts spend to put 1 or 2 on the rig.

[PHIL78 129]

When you talk about raising the staffing levels to NFPA standards we all know that aint gunna happen.But how bout enough FF'S to make an effective initial attack.Maybe 3 FF's on the engine 2or3 on the truck.They could get a line in place(and charge it) and begin searches or opening up.Then rely on your mutual aid. If Pelham manor would do the same then you've at least got enough to make that initial attack.Thats three more firefighters per shift. The Pelhams cant afford that?Then maybe you wouldn't need a five or six department response.

[LTNRFD 266]

how come Yonkers is the only department with adequate resources.

And for the record, our official position in Yonkers (administration and union) is that we are currently severely UNDERMANNED.

If ALL of the fire departments received the same per capita aid from the State of New York, then we would not be having this discussion!

Yonkers, your welcome to use my STATE taxes.

Just answer me why you request New Rochelle F.D. to sit in your fire houses and cover your residents and you refuse to sit in a New Rochelle fire house and provide the same coverage to my home and family. Your also welcome in using my CITY tax dollars to cover your residents.

I can't figure how Yonkers is HELPING New Rochelle!!!

[JFLYNN 681]

Thank you I apreciate that. Regionalization or consolidation will hopefully solve many of these issues. Thank you for the FD comment as well.

While I am not happy that almost every dept is understaffed and at times feel we are taken advantage of, I also understand that NRFD is not large enough to be self sufficient. While we can put the proper amount of equipment and personnel on most fires almost every working fire we have requires MA to cover our stations. This is after we do a call back. Last year MVFD covered our city a cpl of times each month. So the citizens of NR did get something in return.

Sorry you feel this way. The real issue is does regionalization solve the problem? I believe it does and all of the chiefs have stated it does. It will mean every rig will have 3ff's and an officer. It means meeting NFPA 1710. It means having the 1st due engine within 4minutes and 22 men in 8.

Enough garbagemen...about the same manning as the FD. Teachers..they have none (only Yonkers has them, the rest of us have seperate tax districts that have no limits to spend on that). My point was not that PFD has enough FF's or that they can get by with what they have because of the volunteers, my point was that if no MA of anykind and no vol. were in PFD, the village taxbase could not support a full career FD. Last year I calculated that just replacing PFD's ladder was equal to 4.5% property tax increase for the village. Based on my previous manning numbers to add 10 ff's per shift would cost them about $6 million or a property tax increase of 45%. There is no way any taxpayer would support this.

Thats because they want someone to come and help them when they need it. A few years back one of the VAC's in the northern part of the county said they would not do MA, because they could not aford to send the amb out of town. So all the neighbors said fine dont, but also dont ever call for help, you have to give to get.

Most people have no idea what they are paying for or recieving. People believe if they see a fire house with a bunch of trucks they are protected, but trucks dont put out fire. We are trying to address this issue. One of the big problems is none of the districts have the ability to properly fund all sorts of programs. I worked EMS in Yonkers in the early 1980's and I remember how bad the YFD's funding was. It would be a whole lot easier if the rest of us got even a portion of the state revinue sharing that we are suppose to recieve.

We tend to cover our own fires but we have called most of the combo depts to help. What options do we have? And no we do not allow "anyone". PFD has been training with us and only sends us career ff's who do.

That was not what I was refering to. "Trained, checked and certified" well 2out of 3 isnt bad, but there are issues here.

The city of Yonkers has adequate resources because it recieves more state $$$ per capita than all the rest of us. If NR recieved the same per capita we would get an additional $19 million. If only 20% of that came to the FD we would have proper manning. YFD has positioned it self thru a lot of hard work to make itself a 1st rate dept., but without the $$$ coming in you would be in a lot worst shape.

Its a nice position to be in. but it was not always that way.

I'm not going to go tit for tat ad nauseum with you...I do think you are doing a lot of good work on this regionalization / consolidation thing and you have good statistics / numbers...the problem is the way you are using them...reading a lot of your comments, it seems like you are excusing various municipalities for inadequately funding fire protection...it is not our job as fire service leaders to explain why there is not enough money for adequate fire protection, it is our job to tell government officials and the public what we need to do our jobs and insist that it be provided. I came on the job in Yonkers 20 years ago and we have come a LONG way since then because we didn't allow the city to make excuses for inadequate funding, and we repeatedly put the city leaders on the spot privately and publicly about this. Where were the chiefs and union leaders after the Pelham fire? Why was there no press conference about inadequate manning? Why are the chiefs and union leaders in Mt. Vernon not in the press about the decision to not fill the current 5 vacancies there? Do you think if you're patient and quiet and nice little boys eventually all your fancy little facts and figures will get you what you are asking for?

It really seems like way too many guys are more worried about getting their helmets dirty and hoping someone takes their picture at a fire then they are worried about being a member of an adequately manned, trained, and equipped fire department.

[27east 19]

Just FYI, The Village of Pelham has a contract with SCC for trash pickup.

[JFLYNN 681]

If ALL of the fire departments received the same per capita aid from the State of New York, then we would not be having this discussion!

Yonkers, your welcome to use my STATE taxes.

Just answer me why you request New Rochelle F.D. to sit in your fire houses and cover your residents and you refuse to sit in a New Rochelle fire house and provide the same coverage to my home and family. Your also welcome in using my CITY tax dollars to cover your residents.

I can't figure how Yonkers is HELPING New Rochelle!!!

If you feel that we are using YOUR state taxes, why isn't your union doing anything about it?...my point exactly...you will get all angry with me on here, but why won't you speak up and get just as angry with those who control the pursestrings?

I'm confused...if your home and family are in New Rochelle, where are you a volunteer firefighter?

More importantly, we would NEVER refuse to respond mutual aid...what we do refuse to do is sit in the firehouse for more than 30 minutes if that department has not at least started recalling off duty members by then. By doing this, we have helped you whether you realize it or not.

[LTNRFD 266]

More importantly, we would NEVER refuse to respond mutual aid...what we do refuse to do is sit in the firehouse for more than 30 minutes if that department has not at least started recalling off duty members by then. By doing this, we have helped you whether you realize it or not.

New Rochelle has always recalled off duty men. This was usually started before mutual aid was initiated. New Rochelle always manned whatever spare rigs they had and would use additional manpower at the scene to prevent mutual aid companies from being called to the scene. With all resources exhausted, how can Yonkers leave New Rochelle and think thats the RIGHT thing to do!

I'm confused!

Edited March 13, 2008 by LTNRFD

[JustSomeGuy 0]

JFLYNN,

I have A LOT of RESPECT for YOU and your views, I personally feel the same way. I think the Fire Service leaders in the lower Westchester career departments have to start standing up for their dept, they need to fight city hall, more importantly Managers, Mayors, and what nots who have no clue about the fire service. I also believe that the Chiefs should be more focused on fighting city hall then fighting his men and his union, especially since thats where they come from. Unfortunately I think time and time again Chiefs are battling their own men and not standing behind them. Too bad you can't speak with other chiefs to get them on the same page. Maybe some of them will read this.

[JFLYNN 681]

New Rochelle has always recalled off duty men. This was usually started before mutual aid was initiated. New Rochelle always manned whatever spare rigs they had and would use additional manpower at the scene to prevent mutual aid companies from being called to the scene. With all resources exhausted, how can Yonkers leave New Rochelle and think thats the RIGHT thing to do!

I'm confused!

Please don't put words in my mouth. I have never said what NRFD does or does not do in regard to recalls (I don't know). I stated what Yonkers policy is regarding providing mutual aid.

Are you stating that Yonkers has ever "left" New Rochelle? That is simply not true.

BTW, you haven't answered my other 2 questions...

[JFLYNN 681]

JFLYNN,

I have A LOT of RESPECT for YOU and your views, I personally feel the same way. I think the Fire Service leaders in the lower Westchester career departments have to start standing up for their dept, they need to fight city hall, more importantly Managers, Mayors, and what nots who have no clue about the fire service. I also believe that the Chiefs should be more focused on fighting city hall then fighting his men and his union, especially since thats where they come from. Unfortunately I think time and time again Chiefs are battling their own men and not standing behind them. Too bad you can't speak with other chiefs to get them on the same page. Maybe some of them will read this.

Thanks, I appreciate your kind words, but for the record, in my opinion, most career chiefs in Westchester do remember where they came from and do support their men. Some of them just have a little trouble thinking out of the box and may need some "encouragement" from their men to get more vocal. It goes both ways, though, sometimes, young guys or union leaders try to buck or criticize the chief(s) for no particular reason other than to show they can or to try to impress their fellow members with how ba**sy they are.

Respect is a two way street.

[LTNRFD 266]

Please don't put words in my mouth. I have never said what NRFD does or does not do in regard to recalls (I don't know). I stated what Yonkers policy is regarding providing mutual aid.

Are you stating that Yonkers has ever "left" New Rochelle? That is simply not true.

BTW, you haven't answered my other 2 questions...

Bonnefoy Pl. fire comes to mind (a few years ago). The YFD companies actually drove by the fire on their way back to Yonkers.

In answer to your statement about the purse strings. New Rochelle was restricted as to how much they could raise the city portion of the tax. This was in return for an additional 1/4 % in sales tax. This was do to the fact that New Rochelle was not getting it's share of state revenue sharing. The same monies that Yonkers get a much larger share. And yes, both city leaders and union reps HAVE gone to Albany and have spoken to our state reps about getting more aid. The answer seams to be that there are other cities that need it more. New Rochelle city and the F.D. have in the past few years made leaps and bounds in securing other funds to equip and man the fire department. It still does not put the manning where it should be, but its better then it was and hopefully will be better then it is.

In reference to question 2. That has nothing to do with my question about M/A between N.R.F.D. and YFD. Maybe a topic for another thread.

[JFLYNN 681]

Bonnefoy Pl. fire comes to mind (a few years ago). The YFD companies actually drove by the fire on their way back to Yonkers.

In answer to your statement about the purse strings. New Rochelle was restricted as to how much they could raise the city portion of the tax. This was in return for an additional 1/4 % in sales tax. This was do to the fact that New Rochelle was not getting it's share of state revenue sharing. The same monies that Yonkers get a much larger share. And yes, both city leaders and union reps HAVE gone to Albany and have spoken to our state reps about getting more aid. The answer seams to be that there are other cities that need it more. New Rochelle city and the F.D. have in the past few years made leaps and bounds in securing other funds to equip and man the fire department. It still does not put the manning where it should be, but its better then it was and hopefully will be better then it is.

In reference to question 2. That has nothing to do with my question about M/A between N.R.F.D. and YFD. Maybe a topic for another thread.

You act as if Yonkers YFD stole funding from NRFD. Are you of the impression that, in the whole big state budget, if Yonkers had gotten less, than New Rochelle would have gotten more? It's our fault?

It seems like you have some personal resentment toward the YFD. As I stated in my initial post, I respect the NRFD. I'm sorry you are so angry and resentful, I don't think you are in touch with the mainstream of the NRFD though, with whom YFD has very good relations.

I doubt very much what you have stated concerning the "Bonnefoy Pl." fire is true. How about some more detail and substantiation.?

My question about where are you a volunteer Firefighter has everything to do with this topic as it goes to your credibility- you stated that your home and family are in New Rochelle, yet your profile says you are affiliated with a volunteer Fire Department.

[JustSomeGuy 0]

Thanks, I appreciate your kind words, but for the record, in my opinion, most career chiefs in Westchester do remember where they came from and do support their men. Some of them just have a little trouble thinking out of the box and may need some "encouragement" from their men to get more vocal. It goes both ways, though, sometimes, young guys or union leaders try to buck or criticize the chief(s) for no particular reason other than to show they can or to try to impress their fellow members with how ba**sy they are.

Respect is a two way street.

Yes you are correct, It is always easy to point blame at the leaders, and granted I am sure no Chief really wants to upset his superiors in city hall, but, for the men to know that the chief is working with them. And yes there are a lot of things that are double edged swords, My union is a great local (at least IMO), unfortunately there are some issues that we (the union) fight the Chief on, and unfortunately IMO both sides are not focused currently on what is important. We have let a few differences divide us and the tax payers, the people we are to protect are suffering.

[Bnechis 3,961]

When you talk about raising the staffing levels to NFPA standards we all know that aint gunna happen.

Already figured it out and it is achivable. All of the chief's have seen it and agree.

[emt301 4]

I doubt very much what you have stated concerning the "Bonnefoy Pl." fire is true. How about some more detail and substantiation.?

No offense, but for what it's worth, I'll vouch for him - I recall that on at least one occasion while I was on duty, Yonkers FD pulled their units from standby duty out of New Rochelle's quarters pre-maturely. It's been a while since I worked at 60-control so I don't remember the specifics, but I do know that it...has....happened. Whether or not it was Bonnefoy Pl I can't say for sure.