Firefighters Battle State Budget Proposal

[Guest Photounit]

On the same token i often wonder if some of the volunteer leadership is any better off. At least elected officials could be held accountable. God forbid you try and question why a volunteer department needs to go drop so much on bells and whistles for their next engine or super tower ladder. As was mentioned, all these trucks are massive with like 9 man cabs and tons of do-dads and no one can do a damn thing because if you speak out your anti-volunteer. At least with a mayor or other government official the buck stops with someone and you can take steps to take that person out of power next election cycle....

Goose.... You can question it now.... You don't have to wait to hold anybody accountable...... Every Fire District has a monthly meeting that is open to the public.... Go see what's going on yourself rather than looking from the outside and seeing what you want to see and hearing what you want to here.... Go, observe, and ask questions....... Get your own info and form your own opinions.... If your not happy, then run for commissioner - It's a thankless job.....Go for it! Several times in recent years, there were local taxpayer groups that were organized to protest the "high" fire tax they were paying...... They ended up getting their group members elected to the boards of at least two departments thinking they could magically drop the tax rate... Guess what? They found out they couldn't.... In those cases the solution is to stop allowing these high priced Colleges that most "Locals" can't afford to send their kids to from having a free ride on the local Police, Fire, and EMS infrastructure....... These Colleges are hardly "not for profit" organizations as they're billed to be - They are making big bucks and there is no reason why you and I should be funding 18 yo Buffy from DC's trip to the ER at 3:00 am after he had too many Melon Balls at a dorm party or the discharged dry-chem AFA runs.... Sorry, This ain't working for me.....

As far as the fiscal practices of Fire Districts in NY goes, Are there Districts that "waste " money ? Sure, but most are fiscally responsible with taxpayer money. As far a buying equipment...... There is no reason to go cheap .... Buy equipment that will safely do the job for the entire projected life of the vehicle - 15 plus years? Pay once, Cry once.....The apparatus bidding process is the biggest scam there is but the State makes the bidding rules so you can blame the State for that. The problem is if they try to improve it, it will probably end up being worse than it was just like this budget proposal... I know that the State Comptrollers Office has over the last ten years or so, significantly stepped up the auditing and scrutinizing of the books of all Fire Districts throughout the state and they uncovered a lot in some of the LI departments - Can you say Black-eye.... Now the Districts have defined guidelines as to how the taxpayers money can AND can't be spent...... And if there are Districts that aren't following the guidelines, they'll get caught..... And yes, there are some career FF's who are "anti-volunteer" many of which were at one time "vollies" themseleves... To them I have one thing to say as I told all of my guys who went on from our department to become successful Career Firefighters, EMS, or Police Officers (And there have been many) Remember your roots!!!!!!!!! Go to your new profession and learn to do things their way as it's not ABC FD anymore, It's XYZ FD and they have the XYZ FD way of doing things for a reason .....But never forget what you experienced in the past that helped you get to where you are today......Remember how you learned, what you learned, and where you learned it ............And use this as a tool to better yourself....

I could go on but my fever is getting the best of me........ Ps..... Legal Disclaimer : The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with nor my employer......

[res6cue 67]

On the same token i often wonder if some of the volunteer leadership is any better off. At least elected officials could be held accountable.

Newsflash: Fire District Commissioners are elected officials.

[Bnechis 3,961]

On the same token i often wonder if some of the volunteer leadership is any better off. At least elected officials could be held accountable. God forbid you try and question why a volunteer department needs to go drop so much on bells and whistles for their next engine or super tower ladder. As was mentioned, all these trucks are massive with like 9 man cabs and tons of do-dads and no one can do a damn thing because if you speak out your anti-volunteer. At least with a mayor or other government official the buck stops with someone and you can take steps to take that person out of power next election cycle....

In many cases the elected officals are more afraid of upsetting the VFD then the general public, because they believe the FF's will vote as a group (even if this is untrue).

I watched one well to do bedroom community debate about replacing an aging rearmount ladder. They hired a consultant (not me) and his recomendation was to get a light weight 100' rearmount. The reasoning was both the type of structures (no building over 3 stories and over 90% single family homes) and weight (what the fire house could hold along with a limit on a number of bridges in the district). The FD determined after paying for the report that the consultant did not know what he wastalking about (even though they told the mayor to hire this expert to advise them). The Dept. requested the largest tower ladder they could get and the Mayor and council voted 100% to buy it and renovate the fire house to hold it.

After the vote, the local newspaper interviewed one of the council members and asked about why they bought the tower instead of following the consultants report and the council member answer "Our volunteers deserve the best and this truck is the best available".

The buck may stop with the politician....but politicians are often willing to spend $$$ for the sake of spending, even if its not needed.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Goose.... You can question it now.... You don't have to wait to hold anybody accountable...... Every Fire District has a monthly meeting that is open to the public.... Go see what's going on yourself rather than looking from the outside and seeing what you want to see and hearing what you want to here.... Go, observe, and ask questions....... Get your own info and form your own opinions.... If your not happy, then run for commissioner - It's a thankless job.....Go for it!

Great point. The problem for the tax payer is to protect oneself and hold elected official accountable every month you need to go to the fire district meeting, along with the town board, zoning board, planning board, school board....etc...

I think you would also get more participation if the Fire District Elections and all other elections were held in November, that way you might actually see more than 30 people vote. Also setting up an election day is paid for by the tax payer, so why do we need to pay for state/fed (nov), FD (dec), town/village (march), school (may) instead of paying 4x........do it once and get more people out.

Several times in recent years, there were local taxpayer groups that were organized to protest the "high" fire tax they were paying...... They ended up getting their group members elected to the boards of at least two departments thinking they could magically drop the tax rate... Guess what? They found out they couldn't.... In those cases the solution is to stop allowing these high priced Colleges that most "Locals" can't afford to send their kids to from having a free ride on the local Police, Fire, and EMS infrastructure....... These Colleges are hardly "not for profit" organizations as they're billed to be - They are making big bucks and there is no reason why you and I should be funding 18 yo Buffy from DC's trip to the ER at 3:00 am after he had too many Melon Balls at a dorm party or the discharged dry-chem AFA runs.... Sorry, This ain't working for me.....

In Westchester, At least 2 districts had Taxpayer group members elected not to reduce the tax, but to prevent the districts from building new fire stations that they felt were not needed.

The Non-Profit schools are another issue. We have 2 in NR (a 3rd is for profit and they pay taxes) and in addition to paying no tax, we subsidize the hydrants for them. Our water system is privatly owned and the FD pays an annual fee per hydrant. We have requested that the PSC (public service commission) which sets the water rates, require that all users pay there fair share (which would be based on their size) that way a school with 18 large buildings would pay more than a single family home. The PSC has refused to take action, so our non-profits get their hydrants payed for by the taxpayers.

As far as the fiscal practices of Fire Districts in NY goes, Are there Districts that "waste " money ? Sure, but most are fiscally responsible with taxpayer money. As far a buying equipment...... There is no reason to go cheap .... Buy equipment that will safely do the job for the entire projected life of the vehicle - 15 plus years? Pay once, Cry once.....The apparatus bidding process is the biggest scam there is but the State makes the bidding rules so you can blame the State for that. The problem is if they try to improve it, it will probably end up being worse than it was just like this budget proposal... I know that the State Comptrollers Office has over the last ten years or so, significantly stepped up the auditing and scrutinizing of the books of all Fire Districts throughout the state and they uncovered a lot in some of the LI departments - Can you say Black-eye.... Now the Districts have defined guidelines as to how the taxpayers money can AND can't be spent...... And if there are Districts that aren't following the guidelines, they'll get caught.....

Can you explain how the bidding process is a scam?

In my experience the scam is most FD's do not follow the bidding process.

[ex-commish 490]

"I think you would also get more participation if the Fire District Elections and all other elections were held in November, that way you might actually see more than 30 people vote. Also setting up an election day is paid for by the tax payer, so why do we need to pay for state/fed (nov), FD (dec), town/village (march), school (may) instead of paying 4x........do it once and get more people out."

I like the idea and agree that more people would come out and vote. The only issue I see is for example I vote in general elections at my townhall, school elections at my school, and fire district elections at my firehouse. My firehouse is also used for general elections and only people who live in a certain voting district can vote there for general elections. Would election law have to be amended? How could this be cooridnated?

[Bnechis 3,961]

I like the idea and agree that more people would come out and vote. The only issue I see is for example I vote in general elections at my townhall, school elections at my school, and fire district elections at my firehouse. My firehouse is also used for general elections and only people who live in a certain voting district can vote there for general elections. Would election law have to be amended? How could this be cooridnated?

I'm sure laws would need to be amended since town law dictates when town & FD elections...etc.

They could coordinate all of them to be in whatever voting districts already exist for the general elections (since they are the largest). The local clerk and the county board of elections get paid to coordinate the general election, it would just require the fire district secretary to give the ballot info to them (for example).