New Scott packs

[Dondestro 9]

I'm not sure if this topic came up in discussion once before but i could not find any information on it.

Our department recently bought a few of the latest model Scott brand SCBA. We went from the old wire framed packs which we donated to the state to the newer i believe all lightweight metel frames. now these new ones we just got seem to be mostly comprised of composit plastic material. They are extremly heavy. There are a few new features which in some cases are useless addons just to make the packs more expensive. but back to the reason for the thread, they weigh aproxx...5-10 lbs more then the last model scott made. I wore it for a class I was taking last sunday and after about 10min it was putting a noticible strain on my back and shoulders. Anyone used these packs yet?

[FirNaTine 370]

I think the straps suck too, especially when they get wet.

Edited March 4, 2008 by FirNaTine

[lad41der 0]

I also have found nothing good with these new packs. There is nothing better than the old wire frames. Just because they are new dont mean they are the best. Some things I dont like about them were the plastic closure for the strap on the bottle is a little cheap, the regulator display on the shoulder was bulky, straps tanlged very easily. Although they are new to us im sure like everything else we will have to adapt and over come. It does have some good options such as the drag strap on top, the rear LED's etc. Oh and did I mention they were a little heavier.

[x129K 1,393]

I mentioned the same thing when I joined the department where I live now....The new 4.5's are heavier than our old 2.2's with the wire frams....it's nuts!

[jcoppola 52]

I agree, less to fuss with on the older style, and less to break on them too. I have worn both and I find the reduced profile skill is easier using the older style, especially when putting it back on after you have gotten through the obstacle. On the positive side, the part that rests on your lower back is more comfortable than the old style, but overall, the older style is more user-friendly and better to use to teach new people.

JVC

[demps121 39]

I spoke to a sales person a few weeks ago, the wire frame is still avalable it is an option, as well as the straps, the parachute style is the default strap, while you can still get the aligator clip straps, the waist belt also has a pouch with a hose to let a firefighter buddy breath, I did not like the pouch something else to get caught on, also if you look at the top of the pack there is a loop strap for rescue of a downed FF it is exposed so as something can get caught on the strap. Just my opinion. I would like to try one with some of the options wire frame and aligator clips, and get rid of the side pouch on the waist strap.

[firemoose827 324]

There are a couple of new packs...The Scott Air Pack Fifty, and the Scott NXGen pack...which one is it you guys have? It looks to be the Air Pack Fifty. They are supposed to be lighter but they are not. They have the buddy breather line, and the HUD with the bottle capacity. They have the firefighter drag device but its bulky and a snag hazzard. I looked at these packs for our dept a year ago when we priced new packs and I wasnt impressed. Give me a Scott 4.5.

[Dondestro 9]

i origanlly posted the nexgen

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Yeah, the department DonDestro and I are in have been using the Fifty for some time, I agree that the NexGen is much heavier than the normal Fifty, but if you want heavy, you should try a 45-minute bottle.

Edited March 5, 2008 by SageVigiles

[firemoose827 324]

Yeah, the department DonDestro and are in have been using the Fifty for some time, I agree that the NexGen is much heavier than the normal Fifty, but if you want heavy, you should try a 45-minute bottle.

Been there bro!!

So you guys have the NxGen's? They are the ones that have a quick coupler on the air bottle that quick connects to the supply line, instead of attaching the hose with threads. That seems to be an OK pack, have you guys had any other mechanical problems with them? Our dept were considering them but than went to the fifty's.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I never liked the NexGen myself but at least they worked out some of the bugs that were occurring when they first came out.

As far as the straps and it may be that I'm used to them, I prefer the thicker padded straps (for extended use they are more comfortable) and also the parachute clips. The alligator clips are a bit more difficult to find when wearing gloves and the parachute clips are to me more user friendly by just sticking your thumbs into the opening to loosen them up. I have a harder time when wearing one with alligator clips now but again I've had the thicker straps and parachute clips for a long time now.

As far as weight I'm guessing its because of the ton of options they threw onto it and they are there whether you use all those options or not as stated.

[FFD941 20]

New Scott packs

You look like an Air Traffic Controlman with all the lights and there is way too much electronics.

Just my

[Guest alsfirefighter]

FFD...I like that...that was classic.

[lad45der 78]

Is it me or it would seem that when i exit the rig my Scott "fifty" with the aircraft style buckles seems to loosen when i'm walking and or working..Next thing I know the pack is below my a** somewhere???. Recently I was wearing an old wire pack with the alligator clips and when you sinch those up they don't loosen up like the new style buckles. Our packs have the RICC connection located where the high pressure hose attaches to the bottle. This to me is a "hangup" waiting to happen. A Dept in our town has a "Buddy breath" fitting on the shoulder strap that I would rather had seen on our packs. I'm not one to belive in any of this "buddy breathing" or RICC connection. To me if your trapped I'm getting you out if that includes cutting off your arm or leg then so be it!! (we can fix that later in the O.R) were starting to put to much stuff on these paks now. The pak is getting heavier just a fast as the average fireman is with the bunker gear, Now escape ropes and looking around the firehouse it would appear to me Firemen are getting FATTER AND Heart attacks are still the number one firemen killer. So why are the paks getting heavier and more complicated. Let's not forget the little time we have in the limited amount of air in these bottles. Also what's up with the new AV300 mask problems with the hairnet I've been reading about???.

[fyrlt17 13]

The picture above is Scott's new AirPak75

http://www.scotthealthsafety.com/Americas/...a/AirPak75.aspx

At about $7000.00 a pack.

What a bunch of crap!

Thats about a 150% price increase.

[Dondestro 9]

The picture above is Scott's new AirPak75

http://www.scotthealthsafety.com/Americas/...a/AirPak75.aspx

At about $7000.00 a pack.

What a bunch of crap!

Thats about a 150% price increase.

May I add say again....waste of money....give me an old pack and I will be much more comfortable (I'll take being comfortable and confident over style anyday)

[SteveOFD 176]

I'm sure they're not as heavy as the Scott AirPak II's with the steel cylinders I started out with way back when. There are some of these up for auction on EBay.

[DOC22 1]

Anybody remember tho old Scott 2.2s?? Thosw things had some weight to them.

[Guest]

Been there bro!!

So you guys have the NxGen's? They are the ones that have a quick coupler on the air bottle that quick connects to the supply line, instead of attaching the hose with threads. That seems to be an OK pack, have you guys had any other mechanical problems with them? Our dept were considering them but than went to the fifty's.

So I'm guessing that they would not be compatible with older bottles if they have a "quick coupler", and in essence you are making the newer packs completely in compatible with the older ones? How would that work for a department?

[xfirefighter484x 234]

So I'm guessing that they would not be compatible with older bottles if they have a "quick coupler", and in essence you are making the newer packs completely in compatible with the older ones? How would that work for a department?

Guess time to upgrade them all, huh? If memory serves correctly though, they still do utilize the standard coupling to fill the bottles, no?

[x129K 1,393]

Anybody remember tho old Scott 2.2s?? Thosw things had some weight to them.

Thats what I mentioned above - the new Airpaks, like ALS said - have so many bells and whistles that they are JUST as heavy as the 2.2's with the non-composite bottle!

Silly!

[firemoose827 324]

Guess time to upgrade them all, huh? If memory serves correctly though, they still do utilize the standard coupling to fill the bottles, no?

Yes, they have the standard coupler to fill the bottle still. And yes, you would need to upgrade all of your packs to use this style, which is why my dept went against buying them.

So I'm guessing that they would not be compatible with older bottles if they have a "quick coupler", and in essence you are making the newer packs completely in compatible with the older ones? How would that work for a department?

It doesnt work for any dept....unless you have the money to upgrade all of your packs, or use them to begin with. The quick connect was in the pack frame, and you place the bottle through the strap like usual, but than simply push the quick connector into the coupler on the frame untill it clicks, and your on air.

Too expensive, and not compatible.

Doc, I trained on the 2.2's and used them for the first few years! I remember those well....dont miss them!

[Doc 11]

I'm sure they're not as heavy as the Scott AirPak II's with the steel cylinders I started out with way back when. There are some of these up for auction on EBay.

Oh, the IIa's were great. "Gotta turn on the positive pressure". I'd come out to switch out a bottle and hear somebody's pack blowing... "Oh, yeah!" THEN it would get turned on! And training with the old masks (The days when the only air we had was delivered by Nichols), stuffing the hose down your coat only to have it fall out and spend a few breaths vacuuming the firehouse basement floor. Good times. Luckily we had the aluminum cylinders on MOST of them. There were a few steel ones around. I always got one of those.

[x134 46]

Yeah, the department DonDestro and I are in have been using the Fifty for some time, I agree that the NexGen is much heavier than the normal Fifty, but if you want heavy, you should try a 45-minute bottle.

I totaly agree nex gen with a 45 min bottle seems real heavy compared to 30 min bottle on a pack 50 frame.

Hey x129 how about a 2a with a steel bottle. Now that's heavy. "Only if you are old school" LOL

Edited March 5, 2008 by x134

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Oh, the IIa's were great. "Gotta turn on the positive pressure". I'd come out to switch out a bottle and hear somebody's pack blowing... "Oh, yeah!" THEN it would get turned on! And training with the old masks (The days when the only air we had was delivered by Nichols), stuffing the hose down your coat only to have it fall out and spend a few breaths vacuuming the firehouse basement floor. Good times. Luckily we had the aluminum cylinders on MOST of them. There were a few steel ones around. I always got one of those.

LOL Doc. It definately made all the yard packers to come up with an excuse as to why they can't go in when they got rid of the old don/use switches. No more just simply throwing the switch to use to get the free flowing air in the name of a "malfunction." lol. At least I know I wasn't the only one who often forgot to put it into use for the positive pressure.

[201/65 94]

My department is currently using Scott 30 min 2.2's that we bought in either '94 or '95. These packs have no electronics, except for the separate PASS device on the side, we have been looking & researching for about a year and a half now. The chiefs & commissioners all agreed on 1 thing, let the officers decide what they want (I know I was shocked too, on both them agreeing, and letting someone who's going to use something design it!). The officers after demoing multiple brands, and styles decided unanimously on Scott, and almost unanimously on the 45 min bottle on a wire frame. For once the comm's are doing the right thing (my opinion) and letting the officers get what ever they feel is best. Since the wire frame is very expensive option, almost $1500 for each pack, we did a little more research, and the local Scott dealer (MES NY) said he could upgrade the 2.2's to 4.5 for a considerably less price then the new cost, this would include new regulator, hoses, HUD, buddy port, integrated PASS, and I'm pretty sure new straps. We would be keeping our current wire frame harnesses, which to our surprise hold a lifetime no questions asked warranty from Scott on the wire & welds. The comm's have placed aside $200,000 to replace our current 30 packs, and 30 bottles. The quotes we got for the brand new everything was right around $200,000 so that was great, but currently it looks as if we may be going with the upgrades to the current packs, which would mean we could buy some extra packs for spares & training and extra spare bottles.

As for weight, the wire frame 4.5 45 min packs weight only slightly more then our current packs, but less then the 4.5 30 mins packs with the stamped plate back.

Edited March 6, 2008 by 201/65

[mfc2257 464]

There were a few comments regarding the weight of the packs and strain on back/shoulders.

Whenever I used to run a training session or drill, one of the items that I focused on was proper equipment use. My favorite drill nights were back to basics nights because we tend to discard much of this basic knowledge while seeking the ability to perform much more technical and noticible tasks in an effort to impress our peers.

I used to harp on FF's that I would see with their shoulder straps tight as hell and their waist belt loose or not buckled at all. Most folks ignored or forgot the importance of the waist strap from their Basic or FF1 training. If worn correctly, your pack, regardless of how heavy should not put strain on your shoulders and upper back.

Don your pack and sinch down the shoulder straps. Buckle your waist strap and as you pull both leads use your shoulders to sinch the pack up so that it is sitting above your hips on your waist. At this point tighten the waist again so that it is snug. You should be able to fit your entire gloved hand between your chest and your shoulder strap without having to force it.

The pack will rest on your hips and not on your shoulders. Wearing it this way will eliminate almost ALL pack related fatigue. This is how soldiers and hikers can carry packs that weigh up to 100lbs through rough terrain without dropping like flies.

[x134 46]

There were a few comments regarding the weight of the packs and strain on back/shoulders.

Whenever I used to run a training session or drill, one of the items that I focused on was proper equipment use. My favorite drill nights were back to basics nights because we tend to discard much of this basic knowledge while seeking the ability to perform much more technical and noticible tasks in an effort to impress our peers.

I used to harp on FF's that I would see with their shoulder straps tight as hell and their waist belt loose or not buckled at all. Most folks ignored or forgot the importance of the waist strap from their Basic or FF1 training. If worn correctly, your pack, regardless of how heavy should not put strain on your shoulders and upper back.

Don your pack and sinch down the shoulder straps. Buckle your waist strap and as you pull both leads use your shoulders to sinch the pack up so that it is sitting above your hips on your waist. At this point tighten the waist again so that it is snug. You should be able to fit your entire gloved hand between your chest and your shoulder strap without having to force it.

The pack will rest on your hips and not on your shoulders. Wearing it this way will eliminate almost ALL pack related fatigue. This is how soldiers and hikers can carry packs that weigh up to 100lbs through rough terrain without dropping like flies.

I think some forget that sometimes. (Wearing the pack correctly)

[firemoose827 324]

There were a few comments regarding the weight of the packs and strain on back/shoulders.

Whenever I used to run a training session or drill, one of the items that I focused on was proper equipment use. My favorite drill nights were back to basics nights because we tend to discard much of this basic knowledge while seeking the ability to perform much more technical and noticible tasks in an effort to impress our peers.

I used to harp on FF's that I would see with their shoulder straps tight as hell and their waist belt loose or not buckled at all. Most folks ignored or forgot the importance of the waist strap from their Basic or FF1 training. If worn correctly, your pack, regardless of how heavy should not put strain on your shoulders and upper back.

Don your pack and sinch down the shoulder straps. Buckle your waist strap and as you pull both leads use your shoulders to sinch the pack up so that it is sitting above your hips on your waist. At this point tighten the waist again so that it is snug. You should be able to fit your entire gloved hand between your chest and your shoulder strap without having to force it.

The pack will rest on your hips and not on your shoulders. Wearing it this way will eliminate almost ALL pack related fatigue. This is how soldiers and hikers can carry packs that weigh up to 100lbs through rough terrain without dropping like flies.

Excellent post brother, and it points to the ever popular problem of depts not having basic drills on basic techniques. Why? Because their members think that the "Basics" are beneath them, and they should be drilling on more elaborate topics.... yah...right.

Basics Basics Basics, you practice those and everything else falls into line.

Good Post.

[Dondestro 9]

There were a few comments regarding the weight of the packs and strain on back/shoulders.

Whenever I used to run a training session or drill, one of the items that I focused on was proper equipment use. My favorite drill nights were back to basics nights because we tend to discard much of this basic knowledge while seeking the ability to perform much more technical and noticible tasks in an effort to impress our peers.

I used to harp on FF's that I would see with their shoulder straps tight as hell and their waist belt loose or not buckled at all. Most folks ignored or forgot the importance of the waist strap from their Basic or FF1 training. If worn correctly, your pack, regardless of how heavy should not put strain on your shoulders and upper back.

Don your pack and sinch down the shoulder straps. Buckle your waist strap and as you pull both leads use your shoulders to sinch the pack up so that it is sitting above your hips on your waist. At this point tighten the waist again so that it is snug. You should be able to fit your entire gloved hand between your chest and your shoulder strap without having to force it.

The pack will rest on your hips and not on your shoulders. Wearing it this way will eliminate almost ALL pack related fatigue. This is how soldiers and hikers can carry packs that weigh up to 100lbs through rough terrain without dropping like flies.

I agree with you 100% however i would be one of the ones complaining about shoulder stress wih the new pack. throughout the day i was wearing it we were doing some Minor confined space training. where i would have to unbuckle the waste straps and in the given environment was not able to tighten back up to ideal tightness. But i would like to repeat what mfc2257 said by stateing DON'T FORGET TO TRAIN ON THE BASICS. THEY ARE KEY