Teen Drinking Parties: What's The Priority?

[Guest]

It seems like over the past few years, a lot of Westchester PD's have prided themselves in breaking up "teenage drinking parties" and making multiple arrests.

I know when I was in High School, we would have a "kegger" or go off into the woods somewhere and drink. If a cop found us, they'd tell us to go home or sometimes just make sure none of us were driving and tell us to stay out of trouble.

Now, with the advent of "tip lines", etc....it seems like this is a major foucs in many Law Enforcement agencies. Are the kids getting wilder, or is it the fact that officers are dispatched to these parties and have to take action, due to liability?

Also, at least what I've observed, it's the younger officers (who I know for a fact used to HOST these type of parties!) who bust balls.

In my perspective, it's all coming from above.. i.e. the D.A., publicity on a "hot button" issue for the PD, etc.

So, if you're a cop-where do these parties rank on your priority list?

[OnTheWheel 43]

The trouble is now the kids are driving after these parties, we would carpool as corny as it sounds with a designated driver. Also, these kids are mixing alcohol with drugs. The county takes a big stand on them with increased enforcement in prom season as well as seminars yearly about underage drinking parties and enforcement. And the liability (which has changed across the board) is big with these parties. It seems more and more kids are suffering alcohol poisoning these days, back in the day I could drink like a fish and wouldnt need a hospital, maybe its something in the milk they drink. Being a parent now I agree with the stepped up enforcement, not that I was an innocent teen but everything changes as you get older and mature.

[abaduck 123]

Having been raised in Scotland, I shake my head sadly at American attitudes to this whole subject. I mean, what are we thinking? A kid can join the army, serve a tour in Iraq, come home, get married, have a baby - and his parents could still get busted for giving him a drink to celebrate because he's STILL 'too young and immature to drink'???!!!! Let's stop kidding ourselves.

In Scotland a kid over the age of five can legally be given alcohol at home. Now that's intended primarily 'for medicinal purposes' in the case of younger kids - a parent giving giving a preteen kid any quantity of drink more than very occasionally would rapidly find themselves facing the Scottish equivalent of a child endangerment charge! But for older kids... 12, 13, 14... it's very common for them to enjoy an occasional small glass of wine with a meal at home. At 15, you can go into a bar or restaurant and legally be served beer or wine (but not spirits) if you're in the company of someone over 18. At 18, you can buy and drink anything, anywhere.

21... whose brilliant idea was that, and who the hell let that become law? I'll tell you one thing, the first state to break with what appears to be the universal pattern of having 21 as the drinking age will make a *fortune* - number one party destination! As for the notion that the police can interfere in how I raise my kids, in my private home... that's repugnant. Honestly, what do you think is the best way for a young person to learn to drink? With parents and older siblings, around the Sunday dinner table, and later with them in bars and restaurants? Or in the woods, in the company of dubious peers, with whatever illicit booze they've managed to get their hands on?

As for the PD and priorities... well if you get a complaint you gotta respond, I guess - but otherwise... well I think practically any other priority should be higher - such as catching drunk drivers, for starters. IMHO. Rant over.

[Guest]

It’s a bit of a disguise from pushing the “teen drinking parties” in our faces through the media, and making us forget about all the other, ore important things. The DA is called the top cop, and she even has a badge, but she is not a cop, she is a politician and ex-judge. Politicians and judges take a lot of heat from the public to bend laws to make someone innocent and push the law harder to set an example for someone found guilty. “teen drinking parties” are something that most every teen attends at least once in their life, it’s a part of being a teen. The cops should spend more time on the road doing dwi stops and getting those who put other peoples lives in jeopardy.

[FFD941 20]

The cops should spend more time on the road doing dwi stops and getting those who put other peoples lives in jeopardy.

Just to be devils advocate here... Isn't stoping the teen from driving and going onto the road stopping that person who" put other peoples lives in jeopardy."

As for the issue...if you recieve the call for a party or a noise complaint, you have to go, period. But, when prioritizing your calls this is definately not the top on the list.

[MELILLO719 30]

Having been raised in Scotland, I shake my head sadly at American attitudes to this whole subject. I mean, what are we thinking? A kid can join the army, serve a tour in Iraq, come home, get married, have a baby - and his parents could still get busted for giving him a drink to celebrate because he's STILL 'too young and immature to drink'???!!!! Let's stop kidding ourselves.

In Scotland a kid over the age of five can legally be given alcohol at home. Now that's intended primarily 'for medicinal purposes' in the case of younger kids - a parent giving giving a preteen kid any quantity of drink more than very occasionally would rapidly find themselves facing the Scottish equivalent of a child endangerment charge! But for older kids... 12, 13, 14... it's very common for them to enjoy an occasional small glass of wine with a meal at home. At 15, you can go into a bar or restaurant and legally be served beer or wine (but not spirits) if you're in the company of someone over 18. At 18, you can buy and drink anything, anywhere.

21... whose brilliant idea was that, and who the hell let that become law? I'll tell you one thing, the first state to break with what appears to be the universal pattern of having 21 as the drinking age will make a *fortune* - number one party destination! As for the notion that the police can interfere in how I raise my kids, in my private home... that's repugnant. Honestly, what do you think is the best way for a young person to learn to drink? With parents and older siblings, around the Sunday dinner table, and later with them in bars and restaurants? Or in the woods, in the company of dubious peers, with whatever illicit booze they've managed to get their hands on?

As for the PD and priorities... well if you get a complaint you gotta respond, I guess - but otherwise... well I think practically any other priority should be higher - such as catching drunk drivers, for starters. IMHO. Rant over.

21 i think is a great age to be able to drink leaglly because to me you are more mature and ready for a drink yea its a little high but think about it 18 you just come out of high school ur gunna wanna drink and party and to me it seems like a big disaster. but then again thats just my opinion

[gss131 212]

If your old enough to go to war for your country,you should be able to toss back a few.

[GM911 0]

Possibly due to the fact that I am under 21, I think that the law should be changed to 18.

But that's very unlikely to happen, so my practical opinion is to keep the drinking age 21, but also make it legal for military personnel under the age of 21 to drink with proof of military ID.

A bunch of you are going to think I'm crazy for saying this, but I honestly think it's better to have drank at least a little bit in high school before going away to school. On my college EMS agency, the majority of alcohol poisonings we see are students who are away at a new place and consume alcohol for the first time. They do not know what their bodies can handle and do not have (dare I say...) experience in knowing what their limit is.

[Remember585 815]

If your old enough to go to war for your country,you should be able to toss back a few.

EXACTLY!

Most of my friends and I usually had a "DD" or walked to and from the parties we went to. Or, as time went on and we got older, we would sleep at someone's house to avoid driving altogether.

Around here most parties were either in the woods or at someone's house - all within walking distance of home or someone else's house. I don't know what these guys do now, but it feels like we do more and more calls (including fatal MVAs) thanks to underage drinking.

I'm not promoting it nor am I condoning it, but for the safety of everyone - DO NOT DRIVE DRUNK!!!!! (This applies to those of us "over" age too.)

[RC2389 0]

Possibly due to the fact that I am under 21, I think that the law should be changed to 18.

While I agree that 21 seems to be a random number, if the drinking age was lowered I'd want it to be 19, not 18. Ignoring the issue of teens using fake IDs or stores that don't card to buy alcohol, some get it from older siblings who happen to be over 21. If the age were lowered to 18, it would mean that half the senior class could easily buy alcohol whenever, which means that practically every kid in the school would have a friend who could buy it for them. However, there are very few 19 year olds in high school.

A bunch of you are going to think I'm crazy for saying this, but I honestly think it's better to have drank at least a little bit in high school before going away to school. On my college EMS agency, the majority of alcohol poisonings we see are students who are away at a new place and consume alcohol for the first time. They do not know what their bodies can handle and do not have (dare I say...) experience in knowing what their limit is.

As a freshman in college, I've got to agree with you to a point. The people who have had the most trouble with alcohol are the ones who never really drank before. But that isn't to say that there aren't people who drank in high school who still drink way too much...it's more of a maturity issue.

[RWC130 594]

Remember585,

It feels like we do more and more calls (including fatal MVAs) thanks to underage drinking.

Yes, How old was that kid we did CPR on? 15? Traumatic Arrest ejected from the Car.

IMO... UNDERAGE DRINKING and DRUGS are out of hand and it's "Socially Accepted"

Parents allow this to happen! KNOW WHAT YOUR KIDS ARE DOING AND WHO THEY ARE WITH!!!!!

Yes, "I" partied in High School and did my share of crazy things, We ALL did.... Right?

We all had FUN no one got in trouble, no one got hurt, and no one got KILLED?

Were we a little more responsible? I dunno.....

The SPOT LIGHTS are sure on UNDERAGE DRINKING for a damn good reason.

DEATH!

[Guest]

Here in Rockland, we (Ramapo) have a special "hotline" that anyone can call and leave an anonymous tip about underage drinking or house parties. It is such a priorty for our admin, they even require the duty Seargant to check the machine every tour. While I don't think kids should be having beer bashes, I do think we make more out of it than we need to.

[ckroll 101]

Below a certain age [and that may be 30] upper level primates have have had insufficient experience to exercise good judgment. There is a maxim in aviation that good judgment comes from experience... and that experience comes from bad judgment.

If one feels that individuals below the age of reason should be consuming alcohol, one must also accept that a number of them will die doing it and that their death will hopefully serve as an example to the others. Thirteen to fifteen year olds get into alcohol, can get blindingly drunk and then need to hide the body. The drunk kid ends up in a closet, the basement, or in cold weather the decision gets made to pitch the unconscious one out in the back yard in 30 degree temp rather than, forbid, they throw up on the rug and the host gets caught.

I've hauled bunches of them. Respirations are depressed to the point of hypoxia, airway is unmanageable and all the friends care about is their mom's not finding out. If kids drink, some of them are going to die or suffer brain damage. As long as this acceptable and getting the losers out of the gene pool is a good idea, then let the little angels drink as much as they want.

If as a society, we choose to accept responsibility for the well being of others, sometimes to make decisions in the best interests of others when they are unwilling or unable to make those decisions themselves, then we may have to accept that some of us will get our neck hairs up over youngsters drinking. And last I checked, no cop was breaking down the doors on thanksgiving to see if Johnny had sipped grandma's wine. If a party is so out of control that neighbors know about it, and the cops get called and find obviously drunk children and do something about it, this sounds like the right thing. What am I missing?

Last I checked, if a parent wants to get their child plowed, no one is stepping in. When a parent wants to get other people's children plowed that's an issue, and it should be.

[Guest]

Last I checked, if a parent wants to get their child plowed, no one is stepping in. When a parent wants to get other people's children plowed that's an issue, and it should be.

That is not accurate in my experience. We will do a CPS Referal on any parent that gets their kid "plowed"

[Guest]

21... whose brilliant idea was that, and who the hell let that become law? I'll tell you one thing, the first state to break with what appears to be the universal pattern of having 21 as the drinking age will make a *fortune* - number one party destination! As for the notion that the police can interfere in how I raise my kids, in my private home... that's repugnant. Honestly, what do you think is the best way for a young person to learn to drink? With parents and older siblings, around the Sunday dinner table, and later with them in bars and restaurants? Or in the woods, in the company of dubious peers, with whatever illicit booze they've managed to get their hands on?

The Federal Governments idea. And if memory serves from high school government class, any state is free to change the state law to 18, or whatever they want. the catch is that if a state chooses to do so, they lose their funding for highways.

Possibly due to the fact that I am under 21, I think that the law should be changed to 18.

But that's very unlikely to happen, so my practical opinion is to keep the drinking age 21, but also make it legal for military personnel under the age of 21 to drink with proof of military ID.

A bunch of you are going to think I'm crazy for saying this, but I honestly think it's better to have drank at least a little bit in high school before going away to school. On my college EMS agency, the majority of alcohol poisonings we see are students who are away at a new place and consume alcohol for the first time. They do not know what their bodies can handle and do not have (dare I say...) experience in knowing what their limit is.

The Military used to have something like this, except you could only drink on the base if you were under 21, go off base, and you couldn't drink.

[jcoppola 52]

Very informative thread, thanks...

Over the past few months, there have been several fatal motor vehicle accident's involving youths in the Fairfiled and New Haven County areas. I think the message about drunk driving is getting through to the youths, however, it is not stopping them from being killed. Too many parents are burying kids and it needs to stop. Personally, I am really hoping that by the time my kids get to the driving age, it is AT LEAST 18. In many of the fatalities that I have heard about, the PD is attributing the causes of death to "inexperienced operation of a motor vehicle".

When I think back to my youth years and some of the poor choices I made, I thank God that I was never part of one of those tragedies, even though I lost a very good friend to one in high school. There was no evidence of DWI in the accident there but it most likely could have been an inexperienced operator though.

JVC

[abaduck 123]

21 i think is a great age to be able to drink leaglly because to me you are more mature and ready for a drink yea its a little high but think about it 18 you just come out of high school ur gunna wanna drink and party and to me it seems like a big disaster. but then again thats just my opinion

Well what do we trust people to do at or before 18?

Smoke? Quit school? Get a job? Join the army? Get married? Have kids? Vote? Run for office? Become interior firefighters? They can be trusted to do all that, and yet we daren't let them have a drink, even under the supervision of their parents? If anyone truly believes that... well, they're beyond reasoning with, IMHO.

[abaduck 123]

The Federal Governments idea. And if memory serves from high school government class, any state is free to change the state law to 18, or whatever they want. the catch is that if a state chooses to do so, they lose their funding for highways.

So much for states' rights. Well then it becomes a matter of money - federal highway funding versus huge influx of young tourists.

I don't understand how it works anyway; if a state really wanted to comply with this, but still effectively let younger people drink, then make the sanction for underage drinking trivial - like a $5 on-the-spot fine, no record, no court date.

And I do wonder what the federal (or state) governments are doing interfering with the rights of adults - I wonder if it's been litigated? Absolute prohibition I could understand (although I wouldn't agree with it!), that's fair to all... but prohibition-lite, for people of 20 and under only... I'm slightly surprised that's lawful.

Just for information (remember I'm a fairly recent immigrant), are there other things which are forbidden at 18 but allowed at 21? (Forbidden by law I mean; I know, for instance, it's hard to rent a car under 21 - but that's a commercial decision, not a legal one)

[John Meeker Jr 0]

Things have not changed much in 30 years. Kids still drink at 15 if they want to. drugs were out there then to and people did get hurt back then from stupidity mixed with drinking and drugs. don't fool your self into the safety trap that it was safe back when. I think if you remove the age for drinking it will be less of a big deal and less affect to the new driver or the new college student just off on their own.

The choice to do the hard drugs is a personal choice and it has to do with how a person was raised and their risk taking level and that has not changed. How they are raised probably has changed.

Just my opinion

[Future Fireman 4]

So much for states' rights. Well then it becomes a matter of money - federal highway funding versus huge influx of young tourists.

Hmmm.....Annoying people asking for directions or nice highways? I'll take the highways.

I don't understand how it works anyway; if a state really wanted to comply with this, but still effectively let younger people drink, then make the sanction for underage drinking trivial - like a $5 on-the-spot fine, no record, no court date.

Who really DOES understand how govt. works? We can all read our state and federal constitutions, but legislators will always find some loophole around them,

And I do wonder what the federal (or state) governments are doing interfering with the rights of adults - I wonder if it's been litigated? Absolute prohibition I could understand (although I wouldn't agree with it!), that's fair to all... but prohibition-lite, for people of 20 and under only... I'm slightly surprised that's lawful.

Well, under Article I, Section 8, Clause 3 of the United States Constitution, "Congress shall have power To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;" Guess what drinking is considered. Commerce.

For those who have no idea how I know that, well you can thank my history teacher.

Just for information (remember I'm a fairly recent immigrant), are there other things which are forbidden at 18 but allowed at 21? (Forbidden by law I mean; I know, for instance, it's hard to rent a car under 21 - but that's a commercial decision, not a legal one)

Cigarettes and Lottery tickets. However, they have to check your ID for those items. Once you're cleared to purchase by show of ID, their yours to smoke and scratch.

Mike

Edited February 24, 2008 by Future Fireman

[abaduck 123]

(I had asked what other things, apart from drinking alcohol, were legal at 21 but not at 18)

Cigarettes and Lottery tickets. However, they have to check your ID for those items. Once you're cleared to purchase by show of ID, their yours to smoke and scratch.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong there, or you misunderstood the question: AFAIK you don't have to be 21 to buy lottery tickets or smoke - you can do both at 18 in NY.

[Guest]

Just to be devils advocate here... Isn't stoping the teen from driving and going onto the road stopping that person who" put other peoples lives in jeopardy."

As for the issue...if you recieve the call for a party or a noise complaint, you have to go, period. But, when prioritizing your calls this is definately not the top on the list.

if they know cops are on the road looking to arrest them, they will (hopefully) be more responsible and wait to sober up or have a DD.

[RC2389 0]

if they know cops are on the road looking to arrest them, they will (hopefully) be more responsible and wait to sober up or have a DD.

Unfortunately, this isn't enough. The problem I see is that there don't seem to be many follow-ups after the incident. I can name at least two people I went to high school with who have both had accidents while driving drunk (one of which I responded to, which made for an awkward moment to say the least)...and nothing changed. Maybe they now have higher insurance premiums, but they still have their licenses and are still on the road. Since neither accident resulted in bodily damage or significant punishment, I don't think they got the impression that what they did could have serious consequences.

It isn't enough to just pull over drunk drivers (teenaged or otherwise). We need harsher penalties, and we need them to be enforced.

[GM911 0]

Just for information (remember I'm a fairly recent immigrant), are there other things which are forbidden at 18 but allowed at 21? (Forbidden by law I mean; I know, for instance, it's hard to rent a car under 21 - but that's a commercial decision, not a legal one)

You have to be 21 in order to gamble anyplace where alcohol is served, including Quickdraw...

[moggie6 54]

Oh underage drinking how I love thee. With out you I wouldn't have any calls to Marist College. I think if you carry a military I.D. hands down you should be drinking. My uncle is a senior chief in the navy out of san diego. They used to let 18 y/o drink on base but then they suspended it. So what did the young men do? They went to Mexico and they ended up in more trouble than they would have on a bar on base.

[firemoose827 324]

Lots of good points and I dont know where to start!

Abaduck, brother I know where you are coming from! Im scottish too, and growing up I had a Full Blooded Scottish Great Grandmother who always allowed my brother and I to drink wine at family hollidays. Never bothered us as kids, and neither one of us had the crazy urge to drink and go nuts as high school students. Which brings me to one of my points, I believe that its the "Forbidden" things kids will want to do the most. If they are not allowed to drink as young teens in their house at family parties, which is where I was most intrigued to do so, than they will only try and do it illegally without supervision, and do stupid things just to show their defiance of authority. The more something is restricted to them, the more they will want to do it. Case in point being all of the posts about alcohol poisoning in college with freshmen. I respond to our SUNY college all the time and pick up kids who drank too much too fast, and when questioned its always the same grouping of answers..."I couldnt wait to see what its like"...."I'm at school and I'm an adult so I can do what I want when I want too."..."My parents weren't here to tell me not to so I did it."

My other opinion here is todays movies and actors/actresses who are, scarily enough, role models to these kids. Its almost a gaurunteed that most kids will try and do whatever their "role models" do in the movies they watch. If they get ripped and go and steal cars.... Its gaurunteed our LE will be buisy with Grand Theft Auto cases and drunk driving.

If the movie role models advertise smoking pot and doing crazy, dangerous things as a "Great High" than kids will be imitating this behavior. Sadly enough its true, but this brings me to my final point and what supports the other two points made,.....Parenting.

Todays parenting isnt what it used to be. With all of the legalities, law suits, and CPS referrals because parents "Argue" with each other in front of the child its hard to be parents. Todays parents have to step up to the plate even more than my parents had to. But a lot of them fail to do so, and let their kids do as they please instead of try and "Talk" to them. Everything today is yelling, and violence. Its too much effort for a parent to sit with their child and talk anymore, today its an attempt to "Scare" their kids straight....but it just makes the kids want to do illegal stuff even more because of the "Mystery" of it all, because they were not properly educated by their parents as to WHY its dangerous to drink and drive, or do drugs. Parents today just say "Do drugs and I will disown you" instead of actually explaining why drugs are bad.

Sorry, I ranted and raved there. Bottom line of what Im saying....Kids want to desperately be adults and do the things they cant or what they see on TV, and parents are failing to educate them that its all not what its cracked up to be.

[Future Fireman 4]

Abaduck, I forgot to add this. You can't gamble at Mohegan Sun or Foxwoods until you are 21.

Mike

Edited February 24, 2008 by Future Fireman

[ny10570 745]

Several people have brought up drunk driving accidents and drunk runs on college campuses. Personally, I've handled a lot more over 21 drunk driving accidents than under 21 accidents. The drunk runs at colleges are probably because the majority of the population is under 21. There is also a much lower threshold for EMS activation on campus than there is off campus. In college, if I found you intoxicated and under 21 I was suppose to call PD and have you taken to the hospital. As a general rule enforcement began if you were found not on your way to your room and intoxicated. Personally unless you were really in bad shape and unable to take care of yourself you were sent on your way. Off campus, as long as you manage to make your way inside your home you are good to go. Come spend a weekend night with me down in the meat packing district. 07C tour 1 is the busiest bus in the city Friday - Sunday. 75% of that is the drunk shuffle to St. Vinnys where the majority of the patients are of legal drinking age. Illegal drug abuse seems to follow the same trends. I have yet to catch an under 18 OD, but once they hit their mid 20's they start to reach their threshold. The whole point to this ramble is that maybe the increase in underage drunks and DWI is more about perception than it is about hard facts. We all know that drivers under 25 are more likely to crash. Maybe someone with access to these figures can apply the accident rate for your average under 21 driver to the accident rates for your under 21 drunk. I'm willing to bet they're the same if not better.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

The bottom line is TEENS are still going to drink no matter what you do. I think the drinking age should be 18. I don't think that the 3 years to 21 makes anyone more mature to drink.

So what happens to the parents who let underage drinking? NOTHING. They get arrested for maybe reckless endangerment or unlawfully dealing with a minor. They go to court and it gets knocked down to DIS CON or some other BS charge. Now if the courts all of a sudden made a mandatory fee of $10,000.00 for the first offense, no parents would allow this. And if the parents didn't know you still charge them. Shame on them if they don't know what is going on in their house.

[CAM502 6]

Abaduck, I forgot to add this. You can't gamble at Mohegan Sun or Foxwoods until you are 21.

Mike

But you can go to Turning Stone in Verona, NY and gamble at 18 because the entire casino is B.Y.O.B. Even the restaurants don't serve alcohol. Just FYI.