Are LED's Dangerous?

[x635 4,066]

Driving home Saturday night on I-95 in Maryland, Delaware, and New Jersey, the Troopers were out in full force pulling people over left and right.

On the dark, rural portions of the road, their LED's are so bright, they almost blinded my already tired eyes. VERY distracting. I saw one trooper standing at the drivers window in a dark stretch after that bridge in Maryland (forget the name) and you could hardly see him over the lights. (plus he didn't have a reflective vest, which is a different story)

I've also heard CT State Troopers tell me they hate them too, when they are responding or walking back to their vehicle, etc.

We shove all these LED's onto our vehicles nowadays, since their so easy to wire and compact. More and more lights are on emergency vehicles ever before. And brighter, too.

I wonder when someone will come up with what's enough for a lighting package....and maybe a daytime high intensity, nighttime low intensity modes.

[bob803 1]

I wonder if on a highway, troopers can shut down the lights facing the front. This way when they walk back they will not be blinded.

[Guest]

I know that LED light bars do have dimming switches, the only thing is that you have to buy the dimmer package separately (at least for whelen light bars. My buddy bought the dimmer package, which did take quite a bit out of the "bite" of the light.

[irishfire2491 24]

I know on our New Ambulance the LED are Too Bright and we are going to cut out the main lightbar in the rear and leave the four led square flashers on in the rear when in motion and when in park everything will be on, I have trouble following the ambulance to the Hosptial with Medic Car because how bright the LEDS are and I am afraid to leave a lot of room because i dont want another car to follow and get blinded and crash in to the ambulace.

"LED are Bright Lights, You Dont need to Over Do the Lights, They are NOT Strobe Lights"

[Guest]

for the rear a few LED's are good to really get attention, but having a full LED lightbar and 2, 4, 6, 8, etc dech lights in the rear window is way too much.

for the front, i still think a mix of strobe, rotators and LED's are best. strobe and rotators for projection power in intersections and a little bit of extra power from LED's

[Ladder44 73]

i have seizures usually at scenes

[z28skunk 28]

it may be safe to assume back in the day (way before my time of course, about early to mid-20th century) an emergency vehicle had one rotating red light on the roof and a siren like you see in all the old movies. we have come a long way since.

[pfdfirefighter01 1]

if im correct, i think that the new state troopers cars with the LED's and the dutchess county sheriffs cars with the LED's, you can shut off the front facing lights on the lightbar but keep the rear facing ones on. but im not really sure about that. can anyone confirm this???

Edited February 20, 2008 by pfdfirefighter01

[Guest DFFD227]

Now adays most patrol cars have the options of controling which lights to be activated. With one push of a button you can have the rear light bar on and the front off.

[IzzyEng4 427]

In CT, the CSP trooper cars have all their light bars set for the following - off, front, rear, front and rear. They can also add dash lights, grill lights and rear deck lights, all set up on separate switches. All the new LED bars have the colored LED (red, blue and yellow(only in the rear) and have clear lenses.

One problem that cuts down the intensity is the flash pattern and also considering using colored lenses. The new Whelen light bars are way to bright and with the way the flash patterns are with he blue and red on, from a distance it looks purple to the human eye. They need to cut down on the brightness and also the speed of the flash patterns. They do blind you at night.

[res6cue 67]

"More and brighter" is not always BETTER. Unfortunately that seems to be the pervasive school of thought these days. Same could be said for "bigger is better" fire apparatus, but I digress. Most strobe power supplies have a high/low intensity option, and I know LEDs can be optioned similarly. The trouble is that it usually requires human intervention to switch modes. There are some options, such as wiring the high/low circuit to the vehicle's headlights so at night the vehicle is always in low mode, or hooking the circuit up to some kind of ambient light sensor so it will "know" when it's day or night, or hooking it to the vehicle's "Park" or Maxi-Brake so it goes into low mode automatically when the vehicle is stopped. None of the options are foolproof and they all have their drawbacks. Again, maybe if we didn't trend towards outfitting every available square inch of the vehicle with lights of some sort, it wouldn't be such a concern.

[SteveOFD 176]

Saw this on the news the other day.

The Incapacitating Flashlight

An LED flashlight makes culprits vomit.

By Prachi Patel-Predd

Nonlethal weapon: A flashlight (above) contains layers of electronic control circuitry, multicolored LEDs, and special optics that together produce disorienting and nausea-inducing patterns of ultrabright flashing colors.

Soon cops' flashlights might not only temporarily blind bad guys: they might also stop them in their tracks by disorienting them and making them nauseatingly sick. When suspects turn away or reel, cops or border-security agents can nab and handcuff them.

The flashlight, which is being developed for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), uses a range finder to measure the distance to the target's eyes so that it can adjust the energy of the light to a level that won't cause permanent damage. Then it rapidly shoots out pulses of light from an array of ultrabright light emitting diodes (LEDs).

The flashes incapacitate a person in two different ways, says Robert Lieberman, CEO of Intelligent Optical Systems, based in Torrance, CA, which is making the device. The flashes temporarily blind a person, as any bright light would, and the light pulses, which quickly change both in color and duration, also cause what Lieberman calls psychophysical effects. These effects, whose effectiveness depends on the person, range from disorientation to vertigo to nausea, and they wear off in a few minutes.

It's not clear why the changing light pulses cause this effect, even though the effect has been well documented, Lieberman says. Helicopter pilots, for example, have been known to crash because they get disoriented by the choppy flashes of sunlight coming through the chopper's spinning blades.

The DHS is funding research on the new nonlethal weapon. According to a DHS press release, cops, border-security agents, and the National Guard could be armed with the new flashlight by 2010. The device is part of a larger effort to develop nonlethal weapons that can help law-enforcement and military personnel control crowds and riots, both in antiterrorist actions and in hostage situations.

The LED flashlight comes with a few caveats. The person being targeted could easily look away, or he or she might be wearing heavily tinted glasses. And the device would not be useful to, say, a security agent who is chasing a suspected attacker. "It is designed to be used on someone coming at you," Lieberman says. Also, the flashlight's effects are less during the day. But Lieberman notes that security agents will more likely face situations in which they need the device at night.

Glenn Shwaery, who researches nonlethal technology at the University of New Hampshire, says that authorities would use the flashlight, and other light-based "dazzler" technologies, to distract a suspect so that they can close in on him or her. "If you disorient or distract somebody and cause them to look away, then they can't focus on their task, which could be aiming a weapon at someone, or looking at a screen with sensitive information, or dialing a phone," he says.

There have been efforts to make dazzlers using lasers, but LEDs could be a safer choice. "Getting an eye-safe wavelength with a laser has been very difficult," Shwaery says. Because laser beams are energetic and focused, they could cause permanent damage to the eye. Shwaery adds that the new LED flashlight would be safe because it uses a range finder and adjusts the energy it throws out. "The ideal goal for nonlethal technologies is that they be scalable."

Researchers at Intelligent Optical Systems are now analyzing combinations of wavelengths and light intensities that have the strongest effect on people while remaining safe. They also need to make the device smaller and easier to carry. Right now, it's about 15 inches long and 4 inches wide. This fall, the team plans to test the flashlight extensively on people at Penn State University's Institute of Non-Lethal Defense Technology.

This was from Technologyreview.com

On the news report, the reporter was subjected to the flashing and stated that about one half hour after the flash she had an intense headache. I agree that some of these LED lights are way too bright.

[64FFMJK 21]

it may be safe to assume back in the day (way before my time of course, about early to mid-20th century) an emergency vehicle had one rotating red light on the roof and a siren like you see in all the old movies. we have come a long way since.

this is correct the front or rear can be turned on or off indipendently. Also what ever happened to Slow down and move left for stoped emergancy vehicles on the road?

[OnTheWheel 43]

i have seizures usually at scenes

TOO FUNNY!

i think that lights are bright in general, thats why, even more so with LED, vehicle positioning is paramount! Plenty of space between defendant's vehicle and your own and slighty cocked out to create an angle, studies shown vehicles striking police vehicles like that slide right back into traffic. Can never be too safe. Ive also started enforcing the reducing speed for stopped emergemcy vehicle, have yet to do it for ambulance or FD but rest assured its coming!

[Future Fireman 4]

i have seizures usually at scenes

That's NEVER a good thing to have at a scene.

Mike

[Ging599 13]

All kidding aside, has anyone heard of any studies or cases where LEDs caused seizures. People used to speak of epileptics going into seizures from strobe lights, would LEDs cause the same?

[RWC130 594]

Bring back the 35 Watt Tear Drop Light! lol

aka Kojack!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

we are going to cut out the main lightbar in the rear and leave the four led square flashers on in the rear when in motion and when in park everything will be on,

While I appreciate when any agency realizes and issue and attempts to rectify it...if you are parked at anything other then an accident scene (and that even depends on where you are parked) why would you have "everything on?" Is there any real reason to leave the emergency lights on in an ambulance, flycar, etc when you arrive to a scene other than to bring unneeded attention to yourself and to comprimise your safety? If its blinding as people are driving..how safe can it be for crew to operate around the ambulance? Even if you are not parked on the curb, (double parked or whatever) shutting down your emergency lights, leaving your parking lights on and using your 4 way flashers are sufficiently effective, safer for those around the vehicle and puts less constant draw on the vehicle.

The area I work in used to be very good at this and for some reason started falling to the way side. I just don't see any reason for an ambulance to be sitting on the side of the road, street, IFO a nursing home, etc with lights a blazing. I constantly have to ask the driver to turn them off or do it myself if the crew is already inside. Especially at senior citizen complexes, assisted living facilities and nursing homes...the less they know we are there...the less subconscious messages sent so we aren't back in a hour! LOL.

As someone said the issue is some thing more is better. Well designed light patterns and color placement (amber amber amber!) is better then quantity.

[jack10562 414]

All kidding aside, has anyone heard of any studies or cases where LEDs caused seizures. People used to speak of epileptics going into seizures from strobe lights, would LEDs cause the same?

According to the NSE (National Society for Epilepsy) any lights that have between five and thirty flashes per second CAN trigger seizures in individuals who have photosensitive epilepsy. Photosensitivity is more common in children, but adults can be affected!

[Guest]

Bring back the 35 Watt Tear Drop Light! lol

aka Kojack!

Book em danno! lol

[sr71 1]

In CT, the CSP trooper cars have all their light bars set for the following - off, front, rear, front and rear. They can also add dash lights, grill lights and rear deck lights, all set up on separate switches. All the new LED bars have the colored LED (red, blue and yellow(only in the rear) and have clear lenses.

One problem that cuts down the intensity is the flash pattern and also considering using colored lenses. The new Whelen light bars are way to bright and with the way the flash patterns are with he blue and red on, from a distance it looks purple to the human eye. They need to cut down on the brightness and also the speed of the flash patterns. They do blind you at night.

Lately on I95 down here I have been seeing the troopers shutting off the light bar and using the deck lights and rear strobes. (if its in a well light part of the highway) and some of the cars with strobe bars use the rear amber/blue flashers as well as the deck lights. I think thats a better Idea at night when they aren't in areas that are dangerous like bad curves or in an area that is a little tighter than the rest of the highway; and I think they set a slower pattern on the bars now.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Saw this on the news the other day.

The Incapacitating Flashlight

An LED flashlight makes culprits vomit.

By Prachi Patel-Predd

Nonlethal weapon: A flashlight (above) contains layers of electronic control circuitry, multicolored LEDs, and special optics that together produce disorienting and nausea-inducing patterns of ultrabright flashing colors.

Soon cops' flashlights might not only temporarily blind bad guys: they might also stop them in their tracks by disorienting them and making them nauseatingly sick. When suspects turn away or reel, cops or border-security agents can nab and handcuff them.

The flashlight, which is being developed for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), uses a range finder to measure the distance to the target's eyes so that it can adjust the energy of the light to a level that won't cause permanent damage. Then it rapidly shoots out pulses of light from an array of ultrabright light emitting diodes (LEDs).

The flashes incapacitate a person in two different ways, says Robert Lieberman, CEO of Intelligent Optical Systems, based in Torrance, CA, which is making the device. The flashes temporarily blind a person, as any bright light would, and the light pulses, which quickly change both in color and duration, also cause what Lieberman calls psychophysical effects. These effects, whose effectiveness depends on the person, range from disorientation to vertigo to nausea, and they wear off in a few minutes.

It's not clear why the changing light pulses cause this effect, even though the effect has been well documented, Lieberman says. Helicopter pilots, for example, have been known to crash because they get disoriented by the choppy flashes of sunlight coming through the chopper's spinning blades.

The DHS is funding research on the new nonlethal weapon. According to a DHS press release, cops, border-security agents, and the National Guard could be armed with the new flashlight by 2010. The device is part of a larger effort to develop nonlethal weapons that can help law-enforcement and military personnel control crowds and riots, both in antiterrorist actions and in hostage situations.

The LED flashlight comes with a few caveats. The person being targeted could easily look away, or he or she might be wearing heavily tinted glasses. And the device would not be useful to, say, a security agent who is chasing a suspected attacker. "It is designed to be used on someone coming at you," Lieberman says. Also, the flashlight's effects are less during the day. But Lieberman notes that security agents will more likely face situations in which they need the device at night.

Glenn Shwaery, who researches nonlethal technology at the University of New Hampshire, says that authorities would use the flashlight, and other light-based "dazzler" technologies, to distract a suspect so that they can close in on him or her. "If you disorient or distract somebody and cause them to look away, then they can't focus on their task, which could be aiming a weapon at someone, or looking at a screen with sensitive information, or dialing a phone," he says.

There have been efforts to make dazzlers using lasers, but LEDs could be a safer choice. "Getting an eye-safe wavelength with a laser has been very difficult," Shwaery says. Because laser beams are energetic and focused, they could cause permanent damage to the eye. Shwaery adds that the new LED flashlight would be safe because it uses a range finder and adjusts the energy it throws out. "The ideal goal for nonlethal technologies is that they be scalable."

Researchers at Intelligent Optical Systems are now analyzing combinations of wavelengths and light intensities that have the strongest effect on people while remaining safe. They also need to make the device smaller and easier to carry. Right now, it's about 15 inches long and 4 inches wide. This fall, the team plans to test the flashlight extensively on people at Penn State University's Institute of Non-Lethal Defense Technology.

This was from Technologyreview.com

On the news report, the reporter was subjected to the flashing and stated that about one half hour after the flash she had an intense headache. I agree that some of these LED lights are way too bright.

I dont think that you can compare this product to LED lights. This product is designed to stop criminals using high intensity light and flash patterns, not warn people of emergency operations.

[DOC22 1]

It's not clear why the changing light pulses cause this effect, even though the effect has been well documented, Lieberman says. Helicopter pilots, for example, have been known to crash because they get disoriented by the choppy flashes of sunlight coming through the chopper's spinning blades.

I understand this all too well. Driving along a road with bright sunlight directly off to my left through the driver side window, as it gets rapidly "pulsed by trees at 40 mph is VERY distracting, to the point where I have to set the visor for it. And I thought it was just the ravages of age taking their toll.

[Billy 68]

Bring back the 35 Watt Tear Drop Light! lol

aka Kojack!

aka Starsky and Hutch!