Can't we all just get along?

[JJB531 652]

In order for an individual to be found guilty (not just arrested, but convicted) of resisting arrest, the initial reason for the arrest has to be an authorized arrest. Whether or not an arrest is authorized is often up to the court system to decide, which is what I stated before. The case will either be dismissed or the prosecutors office will decline to prosecute. It should not be up to the individual to decide whether or not the arrest is authorized. Saying that individuals have the right to resist an unlawful arrest, means that the everyday Joe who doesn't agree with the fact that they are being arrested has the right to fight the police, without any legal basis for their claims that their arrest is unlawful. This is the reason the statute INIT95 posted exists. Suggestions like that are dangerous in a public forum.

Edited February 17, 2008 by JJB531

[khas143 13]

The topic of this thread has gone astray so let me bring it back on course. Having done highway patrol work, I have been on the scene of many, many accidents so lets take a look at the one in question. The accident had been moved entirely onto the shoulder of the highway. The officer took out the right lane of the highway in order to let the ambulance crews work. I have never been on the scene of an accident like the one in question where taking out a second lane of traffic was needed. In my personal and professional opinion, there was more than adequate space to perform patient care with an entire lane of traffic to work with.

Fire engines are great for blocking traffic and providing safety to responders. (We have all had too many brothers killed by vehicles), but wouldn't the prudent thing to do is for the engine to be positioned behind the police car. If that was the case, any vehicle that "rear-ended" the engine would not have posed a threat to any of the responders.

As for the Police Officer invovled, it is apparent that he did not communicate his rationale for the engine to be moved. I have dealt with fire cheifs and officers and explained to them why you don't need to shut down all lanes of the highway in order to safely handle a car accident and I have never, ever had a problem. When traffic needs to be shut down by all means shut it down, if it dosen't, don't just do it to say that you can or like I have heard on scenes by FD members "F the motoring public". Anyway, I cannot see there being any sort of intelligent exchange between the officer and the fire offical in that short of an amount of time, it just couldn't have happened. Kudos to the Fire Dept. Capt. for not resisting arrest, it would not have helped and not been legal (At least here in New York).

To sum it up, IMO, the FD did not need to shut down an additional lane, the PD Officer should have communicated better, and the whole incident could have been avoided with a little patience and communication on both sides.

Edited February 17, 2008 by khas143

[Guest]

I find it totally funny that on a site where all emergency services are linked together that the moderators find it hard to belive how many different opinions you will get. Im sure they are just doing their jobs and trying to keep the peace and its their site, if they feel they have to delete things.

I also find it amusing to see the people who are in law enforement cry that there is cop bashing going on. I can assure you that if the situation was reversed, the firemen would be taking one hell of a beating.

There is a bottom line here that most people ignore. There is a difference between cops and firemen. It is two different breeds of men. We are not Brothers, cousins maybe.

In this particular video, the Fire Apparatus was parked correctly. If I was the boss, I would have ordered the Drive to come up behind the police car and actually block that lane and the next lane.

We have a dangerous job and dont need to lose anymore people from accidents. The police should know this. They should understand why we block the streets and hi ways. Its a no brainer.

I could go on a tear here, but I wont. I think i made my point.

Brothers, be careful out there, there is danger coming at you from every direction.

[OnTheWheel 43]

I thnk the bashing could go on either side here, the cop for arresting a fire officer on the scene of an accident or the fire officer/driver for refusing the order and resisting. The last time I "bashed" the fire department I lost points and got a warning. Im since reformed though.

I dont think its been posted on here before, but if someone wants to do the homework and clear up a lot of confusion, lets see the NEW YORK law in writing that states a fire department or ambulance has overall control of a scene and can refuse a "lawful order" from a police officer. Im curious myself but wouldnt know where to look and like I said, it would stop a lot of bickering no matter what side its in favor of.

[khas143 13]

There is a bottom line here that most people ignore. There is a difference between cops and firemen. It is two different breeds of men. We are not Brothers, cousins maybe.

Well the fact of the matter is we differ on opinons of the scenario in question, however, your statement that we are not brothers is one of the reasons that there is any sort of "rift" between our professions. Given that statement that you made, why would PD give FD any sort of courtesy. Luckily, I for one do not belive the statement that you made and I DO believe that WE ARE ALL BROTHERS. If we have a disagreement we work it out and talk it out. If that is not your way of handling things, hopefully your not an officer and hopefully we never have to "work out" anything on a scene.

P.S. - FDONTHEJOB - I guess you would take a comment posted earlier that stated "I HATE COPS" as not being cop bashing. Again... lets refocus on the incident at hand and I ask you why you would need to take out all of those lanes in order to provide a safe scene. Where does that end, every MVA why not close the highway? Hell... why not close down both lanes so somebody dosen't ruberneck and possibly jump the guiderail? (Again, throwing this out there for discussion so that we can focus on learning from the incident.)

Edited February 18, 2008 by khas143

[khas143 13]

Brothers, be careful out there, there is danger coming at you from every direction.

Given your previous post, I guess that dosen't refer to your "cousins"!!!!! Good looking out BROTHER!!!!

Edited February 18, 2008 by khas143

[Guest]

Don't we all do the same job? We try to keep the public safe whether we are Police Officers, or Fire Fighters. I think that both parties of this incident should be ashamed of themselves for letting the situation escalate to the point of handcuffs. As to resisting arrest, common sense should prevail and release that the person with the gun, you don't want to argue or get physical with. (I am not saying we should be afraid of the police.) I think we can all learn from this video, and all of us learn what not to do. As for Police Officer bashing, it is not constructive and will not solve anything, the same goes for Fire Fighter bashing. When it comes down to it, we all put our lives on the line.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

I guess some people just have a BADge attitude!! *groan*

Yes, thats right, I went there, I am bringing out the big guns!!!

The painfully bad jokes have begun!!!!