File this under What?

[Guest Dept 10]

Goose please do not compare the actions of the Central Nyack Fire Dept. with the Nyack Fire Dept.!!!! Two totaly different Depts.

[E-38VMFD 0]

Our department just conducted a drill, stressing seatbelts, full PPE and Haz-Mat and the fact is not many of us do use a seatbelt and we get dressed in the cab while responding. In relation to this car fire i read a story in a magazine about a FF who was assesing and sizing up a car fire with a chief waiting for the first due engine, he was in front of the car and without warning the hood strut exploded, traveled through the hood and clean through the FF's leg and PPE pants. Another instance: a senior man in my department was telling me about a car fire in a garage and the same incident occured, only the strut went through a concrete wall and continued down the street whizzing by our guys outside and coming to rest down the street

Edited February 18, 2008 by E-38VMFD

[Guest]

WOW, its the EMT BRAVO fashion police. I didnt realize that firefighting thru out the country will be changed forever because Departments all over will be afraid of being bashed on this site.

Really boys and girls, get over yourselves.

If anyone in todays fire service feels the need to encapsulate themselves on every single run and incident, than by all means do what you need to do. If you and your Department have a thing for full PPE everytime you go to the bathroom, than God bless.

Personally, I dont have a problem with any of the actions taken. If this is the way that Department operates, thats cool, as long as they put their fires out and do the job to the best of their ability.

Firefighting is a dangerous profession. No matter how careful you are, people will still get killed or injured. Most people who go into the fire service understand that and accept that fate. Others like to wear a uniform and dress up in full PPE and play fireman but really dont understand or accept the total package.

Remember, all these guidelines and rules that come from those alphbet organizations like the nfpa,osha,etc are made up by people that never been in a fire. Personally, I have no use for any of those organizations.

As for disability claims and the use of PPE. Do you really want to go there? Do you want to open a can of worms? Would you want to be the person that has a firemans disability denied becasue you think it should be because he had PPE and didnt wear it?

Where I come from, we have the same rules as everyone else and our disability claims are handled by not what you wear but the given fact that you are a fireman and are exposed to certain risks that others are not.

Also, remember that your PPE can kill you.

[STAT213 332]

WOW, its the EMT BRAVO fashion police. I didnt realize that firefighting thru out the country will be changed forever because Departments all over will be afraid of being bashed on this site.

Really boys and girls, get over yourselves.

If anyone in todays fire service feels the need to encapsulate themselves on every single run and incident, than by all means do what you need to do. If you and your Department have a thing for full PPE everytime you go to the bathroom, than God bless.

Personally, I dont have a problem with any of the actions taken. If this is the way that Department operates, thats cool, as long as they put their fires out and do the job to the best of their ability.

Firefighting is a dangerous profession. No matter how careful you are, people will still get killed or injured. Most people who go into the fire service understand that and accept that fate. Others like to wear a uniform and dress up in full PPE and play fireman but really dont understand or accept the total package.

Remember, all these guidelines and rules that come from those alphbet organizations like the nfpa,osha,etc are made up by people that never been in a fire. Personally, I have no use for any of those organizations.

As for disability claims and the use of PPE. Do you really want to go there? Do you want to open a can of worms? Would you want to be the person that has a firemans disability denied becasue you think it should be because he had PPE and didnt wear it?

Where I come from, we have the same rules as everyone else and our disability claims are handled by not what you wear but the given fact that you are a fireman and are exposed to certain risks that others are not.

Also, remember that your PPE can kill you.

I've been waiting for you. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. You know what my LT says is his #1 job everyday? To get me home safe. That should be your job to, but CLEARLY you don't feel that way. Thank God you're not my lou.

You have been informed that the smoke and particulate matter from a car fire is among the most dangerous out there, and you think its ok for me to put my face in it? Thanks Lou!!

You have been informed that in the event of a sudden flashover type situation my PPE needs to be worn properly to protect me, but you've told me its ok to go in a fire with my coat open and hood in my pocket. Thanks Lou!!!

Yup, you're right, it is a dangerous job. One of the most deadly out there. But, we can reduce those risks. I want to work my 20 and have a life after. Clearly you don't care about that, or about me. C'mon kid, man up, its a dangerous job.

I don't care what you do for yourself, but don't you dare risk the life of one the young guys under you because "Its a dangerous job and people die." Yup it is. I might fall through that floor someday. And, I'll have all my gear on properly cause I stop and have my partner check me - right after I check him or her - before we go into that deadly environment. I am gonna stack the deck in my favor.

This call depicts people being wanton and stupid with their actions. Its not a picture of guys doing an alarm activation with their shorts on, or some other benign call where you truly don't need your gear. It has guys breathing carcinogens when they don't need to. What is ok with that? How can you say its alright?

[Guest]

You have been waiting for me? Well, here I am.

1) All I (personally) ever cared about is getting my men home safe AND they all do.

2) I (personally) always teach my men about the proper use of equipment.

3) I also teach my men how PPE can kill you.

PPE has been looked upon by people like yourself, as the cure all to death and injury. It is not and it has and does get men killed and severly injured. Across the country, different Departments have different requirements. Some Departments have stood up and refused to accept bunker gear because of the dangers it presents to the members.

You have proclaimed yourself the self appointed fashion police for the fire service, thats wonderful. You really should thank God you never worked with me cause where I come from they would chew you up and spit you out.

Im happy that you are safety conscious and check yourself BEFORE you do anything on the fire ground. Good for you, God bless. BUT, you are not the GOD of FIRE and should not bash what others do. Worry about you and yours. The fire service is full of self proclaimed safety nuts and I have found in my experience that those people usually do not know the first thing about firefighting. They only understand what is written in books and can name every law word for word. That don't make you able to make the floor above.

Remember, just dressing up like a fireman does not make you a fireman. Re read my original post and try to learn something. I think you just like to preach and hear yourself talk. Because people disagree with you and some departments do not follow "your guidelines", you attack them and call them names. Very childish and immature.

My gut tells me that maybe if your so worried about your health and wellbeing, you should for the sake of the fire service, look into other types of employment.

Edited February 20, 2008 by fdonthejob

[NJMedic 96]

I wouldn't get all excited about OSHA coming in and leveling hugh fines.

Take Charleston, SC for example....

The Charleston Fire Department and the furniture store where nine firefighters were killed in a deadly blaze have been fined thousands of dollars by South Carolina safety regulators.

The state Occupational Safety and Health Administration hit both the department and the Sofa Super Store with fines totaling more than 42-thousand dollars.

A workplace safety report by OSHA cited several safety violations but does not link those as directly causing the deaths of the firefighters.

Among the violations cited against the department are firefighters at the scene of the blaze not wearing full protective gear such as air tanks and body protection. Fines levied against the department total nine thousand 325 dollars.

Cited for having padlocked doors, inoperable fire doors and not having an emergency plan in action for employees, the furniture store has been fined 32 thousand 775 dollars.

Mayor Joe Riley said today (09/20) that among South Carolina cities, Charleston remains a leader in adopting safety policies. Since the June 18th blaze, the city has implemented 19 of 27 recommendations by a city-appointed panel.

Riley says the city is contesting the violations and has asked state officials for a hearing.

The Charleston Fire Department was fined a total of $9,325.00. With 9 firefighters dead that comes out to a little over a thousand dollars per man. I hope the spirit of the fine causes changes if not the fact that they lost 9 firefighters. In any case I'm sure they City could absorb a nine thousand dollar fine without much trouble.

[Monty 35]

I wouldn't get all excited about OSHA coming in and leveling hugh fines.

Take Charleston, SC for example....

The Charleston Fire Department and the furniture store where nine firefighters were killed in a deadly blaze have been fined thousands of dollars by South Carolina safety regulators.

The state Occupational Safety and Health Administration hit both the department and the Sofa Super Store with fines totaling more than 42-thousand dollars.

A workplace safety report by OSHA cited several safety violations but does not link those as directly causing the deaths of the firefighters.

Among the violations cited against the department are firefighters at the scene of the blaze not wearing full protective gear such as air tanks and body protection. Fines levied against the department total nine thousand 325 dollars.

Cited for having padlocked doors, inoperable fire doors and not having an emergency plan in action for employees, the furniture store has been fined 32 thousand 775 dollars.

Mayor Joe Riley said today (09/20) that among South Carolina cities, Charleston remains a leader in adopting safety policies. Since the June 18th blaze, the city has implemented 19 of 27 recommendations by a city-appointed panel.

Riley says the city is contesting the violations and has asked state officials for a hearing.

The Charleston Fire Department was fined a total of $9,325.00. With 9 firefighters dead that comes out to a little over a thousand dollars per man. I hope the spirit of the fine causes changes if not the fact that they lost 9 firefighters. In any case I'm sure they City could absorb a nine thousand dollar fine without much trouble.

Even after that, the city contested the fines and currently they stand at $3,160 See the Post and Courier web site for more details.

I did hear that if this went through at the state level, that some organization would challenge it at the Federal level. From a purely monetary aspect OSHA has very little bite - now on the other hand in civil litigation I bet it's a whole different world.

[STAT213 332]

On the job, I don't get it. You say you preach safety, and take care of your guys, but say it is ok to fight a car fire without SCBA. Those things don't go together in my mind, or most of the people who have posted on here.

Let's take the anger out of both our posts - I'll take the hit for starting it and dig deeper into this. You have strong opinions, so do I. I think we each assumed A LOT about the other. I am not the fashion police, not even a little bit. And, I really have little time or energy for a lot of the book stuff. I was referring to one thing, one instance.

I never said that PPE is the end all or be all. I actually agree with you about the gear killing you. I never said we should wear every piece of it all the time. My post was specifically about SCBA at a car fire.

I am not giving up this line of work, and am willing to accept the risks that come with it. I'm just not willing to take extra risks like eating a big ol pile of smoke that I just don't need to.

[Guest]

Stat...First, there is no anger in my posts. Second, you started this thread with pictures and a verbal assault aimed at a Fire Department that was operating but not in the way you think they should. You bring up carcinogens and smoke and mask useage. Than you post again and challenge someone to defend the actions of this Fire Department.

When I responded, your answer was," I was waiting for you". Well like I said, here I am.

If what I posted makes no sense to you, as well as the operation of said department, maybe it is because Fire Departments across the country operate different from yours.

To be quite honest, I have operated at thousands of car fire. I (personally) have never seen one blow up like in the movies except for the tires. I have never seen the projectiles explode from said cars and i have NEVER worn a mask at them. Im not saying those things don't happen. Im saying what i witnessed thru the years. I can also say that not very many guys wear a mask here for car fires. Is it right? wrong? Indifferent? Dont know, its just the way we do it. You want to start calling us names because of that? Want to say how screwed up we are?

In my time, I have operated at the phone company fire (1974) and the WTC (2001), among thousands of other fires and emergenices. Many good men were lost, many more died later on from all types of s***, s*** people never heard of.

To us...this is who we are and what we do. Safety is wonderful. No one wants to be killed or injured or get sick from some crap fire..BUT and its a big Butt, this is what we do and these are the risks we knew going into this line of work.

Stay safe and stay heathy, stay low and let it blow.

[moggie6 54]

I personally have no problem with a discussion of any fire or emergency scene on this web site. I do have a problem with the type of bashing that can come along with these post. Constructive Critisism is cool and there is nothing wrong with that as long as it's constructive. A couple of months ago we had a garage fire in Fairview (Dutchess) Fire District. All in all the job went down pretty well. But here on one of these forums someone had to make comments about how we decided to fight that fire. I was offended and a little upset. Maybe I responded a little harshly to his post. But after I calmed down I realized that the person asking the questions was trying to learn something and help others learn as well. With that said.....

I have had the ability to travel across this great nation and see different fire depts in action. I like to try and learn something about each department and take something from them that I didn't know. Talk to the guys and see how they do things down in the trenches. Compare their tactics with the tactics that i'm framiliar with. From all of this I have learned of one common denomenator.

D

D is what their objective is. It's the end result. If it's a fire it's putting out the fire, if it's a haz mat situation then we mitigate the haz mat incident, a rescue we preform a rescue and a EMS call we take care of our paitents. How we all chose to get to D isn't the same though. Some of us may take the normal steps of ABC then D. Others might go BCA then D. Heck i've even been witness to some fire deparments goin CBA then D. They all get to D though in the end. In the academy they taught us all about ABCD. When I was out on the street though I found that some guys do it differently but still got to D. Was it the safest way to do things...ehh sometimes not so much, but the job got done.

If you don't agree with my way to get to D thats fine and i'll respect that. If you want to tell me this in a constructive matter i'm all for it. Maybe you don't like how this deparment operates. Thats fine too. But be construtive about it and respect the opions of those that respond to your post.