Fireground Safety/Communications Question

[helicopper 1,050]

Hijacked from the thread on the trunked radio system here in Westchester:

Through a note from the chief

" As of this date ****town has switched back to Low Band 46.26 do to inability for responders to hear any of the responding apparatus. As it is with many Chiefs, safety for the members is the number one concern. This safety was compromised Yesterday. "

I am not home, so I cannot comment on the particular situation, but I know we've been having problems with our pagers picking up the trunked system and hearing our own apparatus responding.

I'm asking merely out of curiosity (for a change I'm not being sarcastic):

How is safety affected by the responders with pagers not hearing the responding apparatus on the trunked system?

[DaRock98 76]

Hijacked from the thread on the trunked radio system here in Westchester:

I'm asking merely out of curiosity (for a change I'm not being sarcastic):

How is safety affected by the responders with pagers not hearing the responding apparatus on the trunked system?

I dont know for sure but I think in Yorktown they drive there POV's to the scene and it might have something to do with no one going to the firehouse to pick up the rig???

[ryefd192 2]

I'm not speaking from knowledge, but I can see how the inability to get an initial status report can compromise the safety of a responder in certain situations. Especially in departments where members respond POV.

Edited January 30, 2008 by ryefd192

[x242Steve 1]

Not to take this thread in yet another direction... but I am curious about the "pagers not picking up the trunked system" comment... Are there departments in Westchester that have replaced and/or upgraded all of their pagers to be able to receive their assigned trunked Fire channel? Do the Minitors even support that?

[helicopper 1,050]

Not to take this thread in yet another direction... but I am curious about the "pagers not picking up the trunked system" comment... Are there departments in Westchester that have replaced and/or upgraded all of their pagers to be able to receive their assigned trunked Fire channel? Do the Minitors even support that?

Hey, hijack your own hijacked thread! :angry:

[x242Steve 1]

Hey, hijack your own hijacked thread! :angry:

LOL Sorry Chris... uh oh why do I hear a chopper hovering over my ::connection lost::

[T. John 21]

Not to take this thread in yet another direction... but I am curious about the "pagers not picking up the trunked system" comment... Are there departments in Westchester that have replaced and/or upgraded all of their pagers to be able to receive their assigned trunked Fire channel? Do the Minitors even support that?

Unfortunately, there is no pager that can pick-up trunked talkgroups. In Greenwich, we have been on a trunked system for over 10 years and this is one of the challenges we face. Many of the volunteers either have scanners or rely on updates from central dispatch or from one of the local stations. At Sound Beach, we do have the capability of patching a trunked channel over our 158.940 channel so pagers can pick it up (it is a one way patch). The only real solution is to ensure that there are updates made over a channel the pagers are tuned to or to patch a channel over the air.

[x242Steve 1]

The only real solution is to ensure that there are updates made over a channel the pagers are tuned to or to patch a channel over the air.

Exactly what I was thinking. We use this ("Simul-Select") in Stamford to ensure that units operating on 154.130 and units operating on the 800-trunked system can all hear the same info.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Why not just make an SOP that all apparatus operators will mark responding on both? It would take an extra 2 seconds. Or change to what many all volunteer departments do already and not roll until you have at least a driver and 2 firefighters. Or if available once an officer signs on another officer/chief would respond to the station to ensure an apparatus gets out. This again would just take coordination by who's closest etc.

Or why not mark responding on whatever frequency you want to use then switch over to the trunk for communication so perhaps the low band can finally start to be uncongested.

I wouldn't necessarily call it a personnel safety issue than more of a public safety issue if all personnel responded to the scene instead of picking up an apparatus. But again this is also something that needs to be worked on and the best way to potentially deal with the situation is to meet up with fire control and discuss it amongst the officers and experienced members to come up with a solution.

[AFS1970 504]

One concern with not hearing the rigs sign on that may be a factor is this. If you are a driver on only some of the aparatus, and you normally go to the station to drive, whicle other memebrs go to the scene, what if all the rigs you can drive have already left? If the department relies on home responders, then in that case redirecting to the scene is the best option. WHile this is not quite a safety concern, more of an operational concern, it could delay some operations. Now if one were to get into a colision while enroute to the wrong location because of this, it would certainly be a tragedy, although I'm not sure there would be anyone to blames other than those involved in the colision.

Here is a simple solution, which is (in theory, at least) how we do it in Stamford. We actually have an order out that requires us to repeat all transmissions that change the status of a unit or the incident. This means when E32 signs on, we are supposed to repeat back that E32 is responding, this way anyone going to drive E32 knows it has already been taken. We are also supposed to repeat recalls and closing of Incidents, so that home responders hear this over thier pagers, which don't do well with transmissions form rigs or portables.

With the new increased in Automatic Aid we are doing between departments, this repeating has become more critical, in that the Dispatcher is simul-selected on the 800 trunked talk group and the 154 MHz dispatch channel, and there are units from different departments using different channels. The only way they will know they are both responding, is for the Dispatcher to repeat the information. I have already seen this be very important to Chief Officers who can divert to a second incidnet once another closer Chief is responding to the first.