Port Chester Ladder 31 Responding

[rfdu39 89]

Here is a video of Port Chester's Ladder 31 responding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of1nHMqcXh0

Edited January 23, 2008 by pcfdrfd700

[JBE 328]

What exactly are they responding to?? Noticed a guy in what looked to be a dress uniform in the jump seat.

[Guest]

Not only was the guy in full dress uniform but he was standing not sitting!?!?!

[eckyphats 0]

standing up....great idea

[JBJ1202 27]

no comment

[towerladder2 22]

We were just about to go to the St Pat's parade in Greenwich when that box came in. There are only two jump seats on that truck, so when there are more than two guys riding in the back we have to stand when responding. Unfortunately since we were on the way to a parade and took in the box, the guys were not in gear to the call. With an open cab, that's what happens. There are mansavers intalled as an added precaution. So let's not get crazy with this.

Edited January 23, 2008 by towerladder2

[ex-commish 490]

We were just about to go to the St Pat's parade in Greenwich when that box came in. There are only two jump seats on that truck, so when there are more than two guys riding in the back we have to stand when responding. Unfortunately since we were on the way to a parade and took in the box, the guys were not in gear to the call. With an open cab, that's what happens. There are mansavers intalled as an added precaution. So let's not get crazy with this.

Mansavers are not fool proof.

[efd184 59]

We were just about to go to the St Pat's parade in Greenwich when that box came in. There are only two jump seats on that truck, so when there are more than two guys riding in the back we have to stand when responding. Unfortunately since we were on the way to a parade and took in the box, the guys were not in gear to the call. With an open cab, that's what happens. There are mansavers intalled as an added precaution. So let's not get crazy with this.

I dont think OSHA or the NFPA would really like the idea of you guys standing up. Plus if you guys crashed someone might have died! Why would you post the video or even tell anyone this?

Does the driver know he would be responsible if one of you died?

NOT TO SMART!

Edited January 23, 2008 by efd184

[TL2L31 8]

I dont think OSHA or the NFPA would really like the idea of you guys standing up. Plus if you guys crashed someone might have died! Why would you post the video or even tell anyone this?

Does the driver know he would be responsible if one of you died?

NOT TO SMART!

The truck is a 1981 and being replaced this month. It is an older video. The days of unsafe open jumpseats and an open tiller cab are over. Let it rest guys.

[efd184 59]

The truck is a 1981 and being replaced this month. It is an older video. The days of unsafe open jumpseats and an open tiller cab are over. Let it rest guys.

ITS YOUR LIFE!

[TL2L31 8]

WE know the truck is not 100% safe AND BEING REPLACED THIS MONTH !

[Jared1979 19]

I have seen that video on youtube and I know many of the members Harry Howard Hook and ladder company so lets not bash any of these guys

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

If you watch closely you see the camera pan down to an empty jump seat at the begining of the video, so the rig does not seem that full to me. With all the screming and hollering heard on the video it seems like a bunch of BUFFS taking a jot ride in my opinion.

[TL2L31 8]

Give it up.

[Guest]

We were just about to go to the St Pat's parade in Greenwich when that box came in. There are only two jump seats on that truck, so when there are more than two guys riding in the back we have to stand when responding. Unfortunately since we were on the way to a parade and took in the box, the guys were not in gear to the call. With an open cab, that's what happens. There are mansavers intalled as an added precaution. So let's not get crazy with this.

Why would you respond to the box if you knew you had no gear and you were in full dress uniform standing with more people in the cab then there should be?!?! This video is something i would not be proud of.

[firemoose827 324]

Im beginning to believe that a few of you exist on this site just to jump on every little thing you see wrong. As mentioned in earlier posts, this is an older truck being replaced this month. Members of the dept have stated they understand its not safe and its being replaced. I know some of the guys in Port Chester myself, 2 of them are my in-laws, and I agree, dont bash these guys.

Lets move on to the topic of the post. Ladder 31 responding to a call. Its a nice older truck and I LOVE the "Q"! My only question is what was the call they were responding to?

[TL2L31 8]

Well said, I wasnt at the call so I dont know where they were giong.

[Guest]

This is the perfect example of how you can't win no matter what you do. On this thread, you have Port Chester being jumped on for responding on their old and potentially unsafe tiller, and on another thread concerning their new rearmount they are getting the third degree about why they aren't keeping the tiller.

The reason open rear jumpseat cabs are obselete now is because they are unsafe, however there are many rigs still in service that have them because the departments they belong to can't afford to replace them. In a perfect world, every rig would have an enclosed cab with everyone seated and belted in, but since it isn't you do the best you can with what you have.

Stay safe everybody!

[31TruckiePCFD 5]

I never seen such back and forth of career vs. vol's. This hole site is full of negative! I think a lot people need to read what is written and know what was going on before everyone bashes each ther like school children. I never talk on this site, but will always stick up for my dept. right or wrong.

And who calling who a bunch of BUFFS? Port Chester is the last dept. to be known as buffs. Better take a good look at the other career and voly BUFF'S on you tube!

[FirNaTine 370]

Guys don't blame the rigs with open cabs as being unsafe, blame the actions of its crew. Just because there's an open cab doesn't mean a member can't sit in the jumpseat buckled in with his equipment on. In fact I guarantee ya, most of the injuries today are sustained because guys don't buckle up in an enclosed cab, cause they think they're foolproof. I'm even guilty of this at times. In fact, you still see guys getting dressed occassionaly while responding. I'm sure we've all done it a couple of times in our career, so let it go. The same individuals who are harping on this, were probably the same guys that rode the backstep yrs. ago, hanging on with one hand and waving to the ladies with the other. That was O.K. though. P.S. I had heard they were responding to a steam leak!

[towerladder2 22]

I can understand and appreciate the CONCERN that I am feeling from some of my BROTHER firefighters on here. I also love it when we get called "buffs" when the truck company in Port Chester does more than 650 calls per year....more than most departments do. So keep with your name calling and your constructive posts. That does alot to keep with the mission of this website.

What are we supposed to do when there are two jump seats and 6 people going to the call. Not go? Let them respond in their pov's? We all know how safe that can be. What is the answer? The new rig is due in the next two weeks. We have had this rig for 26 years. Has it been wrong this whole time?

What is the answer then?

Edited January 23, 2008 by towerladder2

[x242Steve 1]

Ok I was going to stay out of this... but since I am often the voice of reason when it comes to the ridiculous "Career vs. Volunteer" issue, I will once again ask "What on earth has this got to do with the ridiculous 'Career vs. Volunteer' issue??"

This issue has two main factors:

1) Safety. Clear-cut, plain and simple.

2) Responsibility. If this video was posted by a member, he/she should have thought twice before making it a public spectacle.

[TL2L31 8]

If you watch closely you see the camera pan down to an empty jump seat at the begining of the video, so the rig does not seem that full to me. With all the screming and hollering heard on the video it seems like a bunch of BUFFS taking a jot ride in my opinion.

Dont bash good volly depts. This isnt a volly/paid issue. Your profile says you live in Brewster, which last I thought was 100% volly right?

[Goose 188]

Ok I was going to stay out of this... but since I am often the voice of reason when it comes to the ridiculous "Career vs. Volunteer" issue, I will once again ask "What on earth has this got to do with the ridiculous 'Career vs. Volunteer' issue??"

This issue has two main factors:

1) Safety. Clear-cut, plain and simple.

2) Responsibility. If this video was posted by a member, he/she should have thought twice before making it a public spectacle.

I think it's about accountability more than anything. All individuals on that truck were being wholeheartedly irresponsible and unprofessional but what are the chances of them having been reprimanded for that? If i had to put money on it, i would say slim to none. This goes for any volunteer agency (EMS/Fire). I think that when your in a career capacity (again, EMS or Fire) you are more likely to be reprimanded for this sorta stupidity. Likewise, there is, more often than not, a built in structural accountability apparatus (for lack of a better term). IE: those members would have to go take a safety course and the driver would have to additionally take a CEVO or additional drivers safety course on top of any official reprimand. Everything would be tracked on paper and there would be a built in limit of how many violations are acceptable within x amount of time. Thats what your not getting in a volunteer setting...and if they do have it, its not being enforced

Just in case anyone decides to target my response or accuse me of "bashing" the above comments/questions/concerns are my right as a PC taxpayer.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Goose

[FirNaTine 370]

Dont bash good volly depts. This isnt a volly/paid issue. Your profile says you live in Brewster, which last I thought was 100% volly right?

Your right bro. Brewster is 100% Volunteer. I always love the guys who bash the VFD and then live in a town that's protected by a Volunteer FD and Volunteer EMS. Worse then that is sometimes these individuals join these Depts. as Volunteers. It's O.K. though, because it's not a Combo Dept. I always love that answer. Why do these people move from, or for that matter, why not move to a municipality that's protected 24/7 by Career Depts.? Can you say HYPOCRITE!

Edited January 23, 2008 by FirNaTine

[x242Steve 1]

OOO WOW WHO CARES...

Your apathy scares me. I hope it doesn't reflect the future of the fire service, and I hope your attitude is adjusted before you become a full-fledged Firefighter. Try to LEARN from this discussion. Do as you are taught, not necessarilly as others do. Stick to your training and stay up-to-date on current safety standards. As you get older, you will find that every department, every team, every organization, every group of every kind has good eggs and bad eggs. Some egg-heads are just lucky they don't crack their shells.

[JohnnyOV 2]

Dont bash good volly depts. This isnt a volly/paid issue. Your profile says you live in Brewster, which last I thought was 100% volly right?

I don’t see the paid volly issue from his post. Just because you are part of a volly department, doesn’t mean you can't be safe. Without getting into details, I have seen respected department, paid and volunteer perform this action recently and yes one was an enclosed cab, with the windows open, but you could still see them moving about.

What matters here is not the department nor the firefighters involved. There is no need to call out certain departments and members based on this video. What does matter is that people understand it is inherently dangerous to not be buckled in on their rigs. If departments want to have an SOG that allows members to stand, that is their prerogative. No one on this board has the right to call them out, and when one person does it, there is definitely not a need for 30 other members to say the exact same thing; it's kinda understood after the first post.

All I'm saying is, if your department has an SOG one way, that doesn’t mean that department X will do it the same way. Is it safe for them, maybe not, but you (as in everyone) have no place to try and correct them.

Edited January 23, 2008 by EMSJunkie712

[towerladder2 22]

I think it's about accountability more than anything. All individuals on that truck were being wholeheartedly irresponsible and unprofessional but what are the chances of them having been reprimanded for that? If i had to put money on it, i would say slim to none. This goes for any volunteer agency (EMS/Fire). I think that when your in a career capacity (again, EMS or Fire) you are more likely to be reprimanded for this sorta stupidity. Likewise, there is, more often than not, a built in structural accountability apparatus (for lack of a better term). IE: those members would have to go take a safety course and the driver would have to additionally take a CEVO or additional drivers safety course on top of any official reprimand. Everything would be tracked on paper and there would be a built in limit of how many violations are acceptable within x amount of time. Thats what your not getting in a volunteer setting...and if they do have it, its not being enforced

Just in case anyone decides to target my response or accuse me of "bashing" the above comments/questions/concerns are my right as a PC taxpayer.

Just wondering what is unprofessional? Standing up? What would be the reprimand? Sit down on someones lap? Get the facts straight! Comparing volunteer against career in reprimands and paper write ups is apples to oranges. There is no such thing. We all know that. So you are just stirring the pot more than needed.

Your right as a taxpayer is justified. And i can guarantee you that reprimand or not, when you call 911, whether or not we are standing in the ladder with 8 guys, you will be happy to see us!

I know this is not the appropirate response but i am getting fed up with the rediculousness of this all. I understand that this video should never have been put out. We all have members that get a little over the top with pride in their company and go a little far. We all do.

Lets just put an end to this all now, before this gets REAL ugly!!!!!!!

[EMTbravo 312]

Here's the administrative take on things:

1. This video was posted on YouTube

2. This thread was created to share and dicuss the video

3. From an administative standpoint, I think I would be doing the fire service an injustice by deleting this thread. I believe this is a SIGNIFICANT safety issue. Obviously, the person taking the video was standing, with his hand's primary focus on holding the camera, not holding on. Additionally, there is NO reason why they couldn't have stopped, put on gear, and then responded. Also, if this apparatus is so unsafe, then have the ladder respond and use a suburban or other type vehicle for the crew to respond in.

4. People need to stop getting so defensive, and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS! This forum, nor the members commenting on this thread who are not involved with PCFD, are in the right to comment about this situation WHICH WAS POSTED ON YOUTUBE!!

5. All I see is EGOS, and nobody saying "Yeah, it was not a smart move and we've addressed the issue". If this video was shown at Firehouse Expo, in front of a bunch of respected fire service leaders, would the members of PCFD commenting on this thread be able to justify their actions?

Please, stop the crying of "we're getting bashed", and save it for the funerals of Firefighters who may possibly get killed because of actions such as this, and the officers who allow it to happen.

I'm locking this thread because it seems that SOME members are more concerned about their "EGOS" and "PRIDE" than professionalism, safety, and saving lives. It has gotten out of hand, but it is a great example of why the fire service around here is so screwed up.

BLAME THE ACTIONS OF THE PEOPLE INVOLVED, NOT THIS SITE! If you can stand behind what you do 100%, then, there should not be an issue.