Automatic Alarm Response

[Cutty630 37]

I just wanted to bring up this topic and see what people on the board thought as well as how their departments operate and respond to alarms. We all know that there are countless automatic alarms both commercial and residental throughout the fire service. Now my questions are as follows.

How does your dept respond to auto alarms, (does your oic tell you to 10-20, remain in quarters or does the apparatus make it to the call).

If your apparatus arrives on scene does the crew get off the rig to investigate the alarm, or do they remain on the rig while someone else checks it out.

Does the crew get off off of the rig prepared (tools/airpacks)?

What does the oic/officer do if a dispatcher calls to inform the incomming units that there is one of the following. (food on the stove, workmen on location, steam from the shower ect.....)

No one has to answer all of the questions just curious as to how things go down in other depts. I'll let some posts go by before throwing in my 2 cents.....lol

[Remember585 815]

How does your dept respond to auto alarms, (does your oic tell you to 10-20, remain in quarters or does the apparatus make it to the call). We respond "Code one" or lights & sirens unless further information is provided. Generally, if info is given that it is a false alarm, the first due continues in "Code two" or no lights/ sirens. If there is a smoke condition, the assignment (Engine, Truck, Rescue) usually will continue in.

If your apparatus arrives on scene does the crew get off the rig to investigate the alarm, or do they remain on the rig while someone else checks it out. This one is different each time. If a Chief arrives ahead of us, which is the case 90% of the time, they will talk to the homeowner / party on premise and hold the manpower outside. If it is a commercial alarm, especially at the 5-story nursing home we cover, a crew always goes in to check, while a Chief or someone else goes to reset the panel.

Does the crew get off off of the rig prepared (tools/airpacks)? Ideally, the answer would be "yes, 100% of the time." However, we sometimes get told before we even respond that it is a false alarm and guys will "dress down." Otherwise, the other times we are suited up and ready to go. With my Engine, we always enter with the water can, set of irons, handlight, TIC and portable radios - even if it is false - so we are always in the habit of doing it.

What does the oic/officer do if a dispatcher calls to inform the incomming units that there is one of the following. (food on the stove, workmen on location, steam from the shower ect.....) Again, this is a "case by case." Most of the time, a Chief and one rig will continue in to verify. IMO, I feel that we should let the whole assignment continue in, this way everyone gets an idea of places to position rigs, hydrants, new construction, etc. BUT - I'm not a white hat.......

Good post!

[BFD1054 1,552]

Cutty, as John stated, each alarm will vary.

For us, regardless if it is a residential or commercial alarm, we generally handle them the same.

Every auto-alarm gets 2-Engines & the Rescue (providing we get the manpower, of course).

If info is received from say, 60-Control that the alarm company is attempting to cancel, or possible 10-16 or whatever, the 1st due will continue in normal response, all other units will 10-20. Again, this is at the discretion of the OIC. They may decide to continue the 1st due, and hold all other units, or whatever else they feel is proper. We usually don't base our response on the alarm company's info, not that we don't trust it, but we'd rather confirm something ourselves.

I would say a piece of apparatus makes it to an AA 95% of the time. The only time it doesn't happen is if a Chief gets on scene, confirms the 10-16 and doesn't feel it necessary to have a rig respond.

As far as manpower being geared up and ready to go, we're pretty good with that. We get our guys in the habit of being in full PPE & once they get off the rig, they better get tools (some tools are mounted in the jump-seat also) & know thier assignment. If the Chief has the guys stand fast, they better be standing there in full PPE, with tools lol! The Chief may just decide to send an officer in with 1 or 2 FF's to investigate, and those guys WILL go in with full PPE & tools, including the TIC.

Well, i don't want to ramble too much, as i have already, but this is just a little insight to how my Dept. handles AA's, hope it helped!

[Guest skibum]

We run a full assignment. The chief on the scene will determine what is needed and have the appartus remain in quarters, come in on a 10-20 - depending upon the findings. Our FF's treat every structural alarm the same way - packed up, tools in hand and ready to go if necessary, unless instructed otherwise.

If memory serves me correctly 4 or 5 of the structure fires posted on the incident alert over the past couple of months were dispatched as automactic alarms. We all know that 95% are BS, but you never know.

I have noticed that a larger percentage of ours are "something" (in our district at least), meaning an unattended pot on the stove, steam from the shower, boiler malfunction and so forth as opposed to activating for no known reason.

[Pyroinvestigator 0]

Well I do know that in one southern WC dept...if you can believe this....they only send an engine and a rescue...sometimes JUST the rescue to commercial auto alarms....makes me wonder

[E64PCFD2044 1]

in Port Chester we respond to auto alarms just the same as is the home owner called it in. Three engines, one ladder, and one rescue. if it is in rye brook, on of their rigs will respond as well. even if the alarm company or home/business owner calls back to report a false alarm, all units still respond without a 10-20 until the first engine or chief is on location to confirm. if it's at a school or at United Hospital then it's a full dept. response.

[Guest]

We respond the in the same manner to both residential and commercial, 2 & 1, perhaps the rescue if it gets out in time. Since we are self dispatched usually the first due engine is the first to arrive and will make the call, usually. Sometimes he will hold up the second due, or 10-20. With a small response area like ours it usually only takes a minute or two to arrive on scene. Some departments are going to a 1 & 1 on residential alarms, who knows, certainly saves rig wear and tear.

[HFD23 37]

Every automatic alarm weither it be commercial or residential gets a full assignment, Car 2172 and 2 engines and the Tower. no matter what..

if in route we get a call back its relayed to 2172 and the duty officer has his discression, 95% of the time the 1st engine continues in and 2nd due engine and the truck will respond 10-20

with regard to on scene the crew goes in ready to go to work full gear tools scba, eveyrhting. and thats always.

our preplanning also on a responce to a school gives us a m/a 3rd due engine from Fairview or greenville dependin on which side of town its on.

also multiple dwellings such as the appartment buildings on east hartsdale ave and the colony of north washington ave we get ladder 4 from greenville automaticlly so it will be 2 and 2 responding, if we recieve further info we usually have the 1st enigne and 2172 continue in we 10-20 the 2nd engine and the truck and we return the m/a to service

[GFD70 4]

In Greenville E-150 & L-4 w/ 1 captain, as well as the chief and assistant chief if they are on duty, are dispatched on all automatic alarms. For alarms at schools (Edgemont High School, Greenville School and Seely Pl. School), an additional engine from Hartsdale is dispatched. I think alarms at the appartment complexes on Central Ave. also get an additional engine from Hartsdale. All apparatus respond w/ lights and sirens unless the officer in charge calls for a 10-20.

[HFD23 37]

Yup thats correct with regard to the school and all appartment buildings get Engine 170... along with several of the shoping centers such as the one cold stone and red lobster are in amoung others, so basiclly any apparment or place of public assembly will get the 2nd Eninge to equal a 2 and 1 responce in greenville

[4truck48 25]

Why would we as Fire Departments encourage people to put in smoke detectors and alarm systems, and then give them a lesser response then someone who did not have detectors or an alarm system. The response to any structure call should be the same. We can't respond to alarms only when it's a real fire. You have to treat every response as if it is something until it's confirmed that it' s a false alarm. Also any department that would only sent an engine of a rescue to investigate an automatic alarm is just plain foolish.

[RWC130 594]

I agree 100% a "Full Assignment" to all Automatic Alarms both Commercial and Residential or whatever your department SOP's are... i.e. 1 and 1, 2 and 1, or everybody! Sending 1 Engine is CRAZY!

All to often we hear "Automatic Alarm" reset are pagers and roll over. Guess what? Not always the case! A few of the major fires we've had in Peekskill over the years came in "Automatic Alarm" that is Commercial and Residential calls. When that happens at 3 AM and you are caught with your pants down.

I've heard that some departments choose to send the 1st Due Lights and Siren and all other responding units at a reduced speed or just a normal Sunday drive until 1st due confirms you have something.

This is done to cut down on the risk of Fire Dept. accidents and injuries related to "Emergency Response."

I didn't say I agree with it, but I have read it. What's your take on this? I guess it has some pros and cons like anything.

Personally I would rather lean on the side of send everybody, you can always send them back.

[DOC22 1]

When in doubt send all out!!

seems to me that until somebody arrives on scene and verifys the alarm status, then you are in doubt so do what you have to do, dammit!

[DMA327 12]

What if your fept. has 6 engines...are you gonna send all of them out to an automatic alarm? I can see 2 engines and a truck...

[DOC22 1]

I mean ALWAYS use discretion! aAfter all is that not the best part of valor????? Common scense MUST prevail!!!!!!!

[DMA327 12]

Ahhh Gotcha :wink:

My dept. is like that... Before anyone is on scene, they will take the word of the homeowner or the PD and start returning apparatus. Then you get there and nothing you heard was true. Now you need fans to vent and you returned the ladder...uhgg.

Always continue your units in until you have personnel and i mean FIRE personnel on scene to confirm a 10-16 or that everything at the address is OK!

Good post

[Tanker 10eng 140]

hmmmmmmmm i thought it was an un written policy for the local PD to do a " check & advise " first ..... why send the FD ???? :peace:

[HFD23 37]

ya, always make sure some FD unit checks the situation prior to takin the home owners or the person on the other end of the contact numbers word, i know a southern westchester dept had a problem with this a few years back and it turned out that person was on a cell phone and said all was ok and he wasn;t at the residence which turned out to be on fire...

So never underestimate a automatic alarm, always respond when ur pager goes off, be safe, but be ready to go to work every time u ride out or get off that rig.

[Guest]

hey brian! good topic

we useually send 1 and 1 w/ a rescue on residential and 2 and 1 w/ rescue to high occupancy i.e. hospital,schools and appartment buildings.we can't loose sight of 98% are false but we are all doing more runs per year and more auto alarms are actually being something. unfortunately we don't get the response we need out of our members because most of the time it's guaranted false but we still have to do the job. when you are the incident commander you need to step back and be just that. let the firefighters get some action, send them in, let them look around and explore to keep the interest there. there is nothing more anoing than being a firefighter and breaking your butt to get there and the guy with the chiefs car does everything and sends you back which was a problem that we had. on the otherhand we don't need to speed to these calls especially when we go there repeatedly.

,

i also think that we should always try to be prepared to do a job, have the tools you need, cans and irons at the least. if your in a highrise w/ a stand pipe connection bring your standpipe connections and hose. theres no worse feeling than getting up to a floor and then bang it hits you, we forgot something and we have a small fire then you have to go back down to get them.

when the dispatcher says food on the stove or steam from a shower we can slow down the apparatus. but when you have a lightning storm and the dispatcher says the homeowner reports unknown reason for activation, do you really think they check the house top to bottom or walk around the house on the outside in the pooring rain, not around this area anyway.

you have to use your better judgement and common sense. don't put the public at risk. we all want to go home in one piece.

also congradulations ex-captain you did an excellent job keep up the good work! =D>

[Guest]

In Larchmont Every Fire Alarm Gets A Full Alarm Assignment ( Engine 33 - Engine 34 - Tower Ladder 7 and Chiefs. There Have Been Times Where We Have Been To A Location So Many Times In One Day That We Just Send Engine 34 But Each New Day Gets A Full Alarm Assignment.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Great topic. I believe that a full assignment is generally warranted, I have no problem with the 1 engine, but a 1 and 1 would suffice better IMO. Anything more then that, then the first due engine and the aerial should be code 3 and all others code 1 (no lights/sirens) This reduces liablility for what is 99.9% a falst alarm, gets at least 1 then the second unit there in reasonable time and if it is something the other units can upgrade.

[JBE 328]

Automatic alarms in private residences, 1 and 1. This also covers CO detectors. The wording in the directive is vague, but apartments are supposed to get 1 and 1 with a BC. Any public facility 24/7 gets 3 and 2 and a BC. (Any type of alarm)

Class E and J alarms, covering Hi Rises with a Fire command station and hotels, get an engine or a ladder and a BC, in Manhattan only, in certain battalions.(This is the test of a true dispatcher) anywhere above I think 96th Street in Manhattan(and the other boroughs) gets 3 and 2 and a BC.

Valve alarms get 1 and 1 and a BC(except where previously noted) Manual alarms get 3 and 2 and a BC. The Rescue Companies were removed from alarm activations citywide in the late 90's, although I believe R-5 is the exception. Marine Companies were removed by orders of the late Dep. Comm. Feehan in the late 90's.

[27east 19]

...The Rescue Companies were removed from alarm activations citywide in the late 90's, although I believe R-5 is the exception...

I never knew FDNY ran Rescues on alarm activations...can you elaborate on this? I would guess only the bigger more populated buildings?

[JBE 328]

Sure, If it was in their First Due area, they responded. The late Captain Hatton of R-1 crunched the numbers and was able to show that if they took away all the activated alarm responses, and replaced them with auto extrication incidents, the total amount of runs would be about the same. When it came to the extrication responses, Rescue 1 and Rescue 5 responded to any reported pin job in their entire response area. This policy has been modified over the 6 or so years since.

[doug_e 0]

This is a good topic. There are horror stories all over about alarm companies being misinformed and passing that misinformation on to local dispatchers.

I believe Scarsdale had a situation where the alarm company called the home owner listed on the card, asked if all was okay and relayed that info to the local department. They in turn cancelled the apparatus enroute and returned to quarters.

The duty boss called the alarm company for more information and asked for the home owners phone number and was told 718-555.????! Hearing that the boss transmitted the alarm again and upon arrival found a working house fire.

The central station out in Podunk had no idea about the area code for the address, but the chief did.

Never, never let anyone talk you out of at least a first hand drive by of the alarm address.

On another note we had a recurring auto-alarm at a commercial building after business hours and this guy, working there late, decided to come out to see what the comotion was. As he walked around the back of the building he tripped and fell face first into a flagstone fire pit, destroying his upper lip. A bloody mess....

We'd been there a hundred times for the same thing, but on this night we learned that:

Nothing is ever routine!

[Guest x901]

Yonkers runs a full 4 Engines, 2 Trucks, 1 Batt Chief, & RES1CUE to residentials (minus the RESCUE for commercial)......

just a note, late summer last year they went for an automated alarm at a school up on Parkhill Ave and during the investigation they found workers on the roof had started an accidental fire which went to a 2nd Alarm assignment.......

[BFDCAR5 0]

Here in Myrtle Beach, we run 1 engine with traffic to residental alarms, and to comerical alarms we run 2&1 first due engine emergency and second due and ladder with traffic,, just a quick reference Myrtle Beach has. 2 ladders on on the south end of the city at statiion 3 23rd av south and one on the north end at 79th av north, we split the city in half with the response of the two ladders, we us 10th n as the dividing line

Before I left Ct, we ran what we could get out the door, either 2 engs and the tower in a hydrant district or 2 engs and the tanker in the non hydrant district unless one of the chiefs back down the response

[JBE 328]

I can tell you this from experience. ADT STINKS!!!! AFA and New York Merchants are two of the best I have dealt with. USA Central out of Port Chester is still pretty good at times(I'm biased,I worked for them prior to working for FDNY). Most of the operators at ADT and a few others have no idea what you're talking about when you ask them questions, they pay peanuts so the turnover rate is high, and they also have no idea how to pronounce half the places they are dispatching to, but this is what happens when you're a corporate 800 pound gorilla and have accounts nationwide and about 6 different central stations scattered through out with people who have no clue about an alarm they transmitted 5 minutes prior to a dispatcher calling up for information.

[27east 19]

FDNY also runs Rescues as Trucks in their first due-areas, right?

[JBE 328]

If it is a situation where they will beat the first due truck in, yes they operate as a truck company.