New Engines - Hose Netting?

[Guest FFNick]

I've noticed on many new Engine deliveries that there are various different types of mesh or netting used on the hosebeds and preconnects now. Is this an NFPA standard? Does it affect the speed of hose deployment?

[FFD941 20]

I've noticed on many new Engine deliveries that there are various different types of mesh or netting used on the hosebeds and preconnects now. Is this an NFPA standard? Does it affect the speed of hose deployment?

FFNick unfortunately this is a new standard on all new deliveries. It does take a couple extra seconds in deploying the hose, but it takes some getting used to and unfortunately we, as firefighters, now have to deal with it.

[FFD941 20]

Check NFPA 1901 Standard on Automotive Fire Apparatus... It should be located in that standard.

[Guest]

It is NFPA standard. (don't remember which one) I heard that it came about after a nozzle flew off of a engine and smashed into a womans car causing her to have an accident and severely injuring or killing her i don't remember. We had to update our newest engine to be in compliance, which is the only reason i know this

[Guest alsfirefighter]

This is part of the new NFPA 1901 standard. To me in doesn't affect the deployment of the hose whatsoever depending on what type you have. It takes about 1 second to pull the net down being its held on with industrial strength velcro in most cases. There are some apparatus I've seen at drills and when conducting courses that also had diamond plate doors fabricated and are held closed by a clasp...this type takes a little longer because of the clasp operation but within the scheme of operations its minimal and with consistant training it becomes negligable.

FFNick unfortunately this is a new standard on all new deliveries. It does take a couple extra seconds in deploying the hose, but it takes some getting used to and unfortunately we, as firefighters, now have to deal with it.

I wouldn't venture to say "unfortunately" we have to deal with it. This requirement has come about because of several civilian injuries/deaths over the past few years and one was the death of a child who was struck by a nozzle from a preconnect that came loose from an apparatus. Another child in that incident was also severely injured and suffered severe head trauma.

As I said..training, training, training, you get used to it and its like its not even there.

[JohnnyOV 2]

I am in suppport of having netting placed on the hose loads. We lost a nozzle on our engine while making a turn at a slow speed, dragged it down the road for about 100' then picked it up. The only thing we could think of that would cause it to fall off was improper placement of the nozzle on the load. With a net, no matter where the nozzle is place, you dont have to worry about it falling off.

[OLDGUY19 6]

I have noticed that with the adding of mattedales and large diameter hose. We had more of this happen. When we pulled all our hose from the back. I remember only dropping hose once and that was after forgetting to tye the 3" gated wye and hydrate wrench with the hose lighter to the crosse rail. I have seen 5" hose being lifted by air flow getting under the hose at highway speed when the hose was not packed right. adding hosebed covers and not overpacking the mattedales ie [100'/200'] have stopped this.

[IzzyEng4 427]

This was pushed through back in 2005 / 2006 and we encountered it when my company's new engine was being built, which the standard was adopted and required in November 2005 (if memory serves me correctly when it was adopted).

What happened was the fire department in Pittsburgh or Philadelphia was responding to a fire, one of their engine's crosslays came out of its bed while taking a corner and the nozzle of the pre-connect hit the head of a child killing her (she was on the sidewalk) in early 2005. There was an immediate response to all this and by the end of the year the standard for all hose beds and cross / speed lays must be secured with netting and covered either with a hard or removable cover.

[x635 4,066]

Here's a photo I got yesterday of the netting on the back step of Waterbury, CT's new Pierce Arrow XT's.

Los Angeles City FD's Pierce Arrow XT's also have the similar setup, and all new deliveries I have been shooting have some sort of system in place. However, many systems have been locally "overwritten".

(Photo by me, 1-16-08 )

[Guest FFNick]

Thanks for all the responses - Seth - that was the photo that prompted my question. Thanks!

[ldrco195 17]

This was pushed through back in 2005 / 2006 and we encountered it when my company's new engine was being built, which the standard was adopted and required in November 2005 (if memory serves me correctly when it was adopted).

What happened was the fire department in Pittsburgh or Philadelphia was responding to a fire, one of their engine's crosslays came out of its bed while taking a corner and the nozzle of the pre-connect hit the head of a child killing her (she was on the sidewalk) in early 2005. There was an immediate response to all this and by the end of the year the standard for all hose beds and cross / speed lays must be secured with netting and covered either with a hard or removable cover.

it occured here in the Pittsburgh Area as a Corapololis VFD Engine was responding to a call. The crosslay came off, became stuck under a tire, released and flew thru the air, the nozzle striking 2 children, killing one and seriously maiming the other for life.

i sell fire equipment and that provoked enourmous amounts of phone calls from area FD's for days and months after the incident to have them ordered for their apparatus.

[JBJ1202 27]

being a victim of packing 1500' of 5" on I-684... i dont mind it...

[IzzyEng4 427]

Thanks for the corrected info ldrco195

[southendexpress 11]

i've been on our engine more than once when we dropped a 200ft preconnect off the rear coming of a highway and on resdential streets due to it not being packed right.

[Bnechis 3,961]

At the LI "MEGA" Show almost every rig had a different system for securing the netting some good (you could undo it with fire gloves on), some I could not release even without gloves. When specing your system you need to consider this.

One rig was so secure, the hose may never come off.

[Guest FFNick]

Ok, I definitely understand the need/use of the netting. My question now is, in today's litigous society, is it only a matter of time before we have to retrofit rigs to prevent this from happening across the board? I know that where I work, it can take the city well over 20 years to replace a rig, and I know that where I grew up, they had a '64 in active service up until the late 90's. I'm assuming the standard only applies to new apparatus as of a certain date.

[firemoose827 324]

Thats my question as well, does NFPA 1901 require all existing apparatus to be retrofitted? We just got a new rig in 2005 and it doesnt have the netting, and was wondering if we had to get it and our other engines retrofitted now?

We had it happen to us too, enroute to a structure fire in our neighboring town, we lost 1000' of 3" hose and didnt even realise it untill we got to the scene and found a length dangling of the back and half the bed empty! When we got back to station that night, after vigorously searching for the lost hose, we found that an elderly gentleman had picked up ALL the hose in his little pickup and brought it back to the station for us! Needless to say, at that years annual banquet, we have gag gifts for some members that deserve it. The driver of the truck that day, got a package of load tie-downs!!!

[Bnechis 3,961]

Thats my question as well, does NFPA 1901 require all existing apparatus to be retrofitted? We just got a new rig in 2005 and it doesnt have the netting, and was wondering if we had to get it and our other engines retrofitted now?

They only require retrofit if the rig is referbished

[Bnechis 3,961]

Ok, I definitely understand the need/use of the netting. My question now is, in today's litigous society, is it only a matter of time before we have to retrofit rigs to prevent this from happening across the board? I know that where I work, it can take the city well over 20 years to replace a rig, and I know that where I grew up, they had a '64 in active service up until the late 90's. I'm assuming the standard only applies to new apparatus as of a certain date.

At the FDSOA conference, the chair of NFPA 1901 stated that the new standard will require all 1980 - 1991 apparatus to be refirbished and all 1979 or older rigs to be taken out of service.

Looks like 20 years before referb and 30 years out of service.

[IzzyEng4 427]

My understanding is that all apparatus built after 2005 are required to HAVE the new standard and any apparatus that was built prior to the implementation date is exempt but it is highly recommended to be fitted for hose bed netting if it does not have any. Any fire apparatus undergoing refurbishment must follow the 1901 RECOMENDATIONS.

Now having that said, just like warning lights, 1901 is a recommended standard and should be addopted but technically with the legal-eze, it doesn't have to be. (My opinion you should adopt the standard but that's another discussion).

And to answer Nick 's question, its not that expensive to retrofit an older truck with netting. Since your from BFD fire lets use old E-3's Hahn. The only thing you would need to do is have a canvas hose bed cover for both the body bed and crosslays secured with some sort of snap / bungie-rope latch system on the top and draping over the the sides with some sort of secured velcro or tie down that is easy to manipulate getting the hose out. Cost is about $1000 to 1500 depending what has to be done. Its a real easy thing to add on and you don't have to go with metal covers.